Buyer Beware in Indiana

[cypressbog]

Good advice for those just getting into the hobby.

I contacted a guy about seeing the SPID of his 71 Chevy truck advertised near Huntington, Indiana. Truck showed Cheyenne on the fenders but lacked a few items within the Z84 Cheyenne equipment package.

He sends me a SPID pic that clearly shows it's not a true Cheyenne. I asked him about the missing details and he calls me wrong and then tells me to F-off.

Moral of the story is you can't trust everything you see. Too many scammers trying to cash in on the popularity of these trucks hoping to pray on the uneducated.

Buyer Beware!

[rsavage]

Never quite understood the fascination with SPIDs. You can build these trucks any way you want and get a SPID to match. Unlike a Pontiac with PHS, there aren't markers ie VIN, trim tags that proves a truck's build other than engine and then you can only tell 6 or 8. Build sheets are very rare. I see folks getting all excited about a truck that has serious, serious rust issues because when it was built, it was loaded - according to the SPID. My advice on these trucks is to buy the most rust free vehicle to start with and build it how you want it. When they were new, that's exactly what you could do - walk into a dealer and order virtually anything you wanted.

[57larry]

can't trust those guys in Indiana lol

[mrtoni]

Originally Posted by 57larry

can't trust those guys in Indiana lol

Except John Cougar and Axl Rose but only sometimes

[68panelman]

I'm from New York, I don't trust anybody

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by rsavage

Never quite understood the fascination with SPIDs. You can build these trucks any way you want and get a SPID to match. Unlike a Pontiac with PHS, there aren't markers ie VIN, trim tags that proves a truck's build other than engine and then you can only tell 6 or 8. Build sheets are very rare. I see folks getting all excited about a truck that has serious, serious rust issues because when it was built, it was loaded - according to the SPID. My advice on these trucks is to buy the most rust free vehicle to start with and build it how you want it. When they were new, that's exactly what you could do - walk into a dealer and order virtually anything you wanted.

I couldn’t agree more!

Originally Posted by mrtoni

Except John Cougar and Axl Rose but only sometimes

And Steve McQueen

[tj1970cst]

My spid says my edelbrock e street heads and crane 274 h06 cam came in my truck. CST package.

[68bowtie]

I never understood that some people feel the need to dismiss the SPID. To me it’s like someone back in the day saying a matching numbers 396 in your SS camaro doesn’t matter. Rip it out for better gas mileage. I agree with certain trucks the SPID won’t matter as much (like numbers matching doesn’t matter in some camaros), but with some trucks it’s indisputable. But those opinions don’t bother me a bit, less competition for the real rare trucks!

[YoungPup1977]

How bout the trucks that have the "SUPER" emblem on both front fenders but they are on wrong....look at most of the trucks that have the "SUPER" emblem on the fender 90 per cent of the time they are installed wrong....LOL !!! because they are not original......

[Killer Bee]

I'm with cypress all the way!

it's not a matter of what you like or dislike or care or care not about..

it's the dishonesty and deception that burns my britches

• sellers that won't spend two minutes honestly describing something
• sellers that will not send legible pictures
• sellers that keep sending crappy pictures with hope you'll give up and buy it anyway
• sellers that get offended with fact finding before you buy so YOU can make an INFORMED decision

it's a tactic of deceitful people that attempt to pass it off as unimportant when it's not their decision..

or plain laziness, I dunno but I don't like it, not one bit..

for pete's sake, just come right out an say it, if you're not willing to describe it accurately I can spare my time and walk away..

[tristan]

If you think the SPID and VIN plate don't matter then just wait until you are after the big bucks for your fantasy treasure at B-J or Mecum. My long list of EBay and Craigslist fails invariably start with sellers who won't provide clear pictures of those two little items.

[rsavage]

Originally Posted by tristan

If you think the SPID and VIN plate don't matter then just wait until you are after the big bucks for your fantasy treasure at B-J or Mecum. My long list of EBay and Craigslist fails invariably start with sellers who won't provide clear pictures of those two little items.

Of course the VIN is important. I never said it wasn't. It just doesn't tell you much on how the truck came from the factory. If you want big $ then your build should be exceptionally nice. I would never pay big bucks for a really nice truck that didn't have a matching frame for example regardless of SPID. That is something that can be checked easily. SPID's, since they are a sticker that can be faked easily, or a truck that has more options on it than the way it was built wouldn't really bother me IF it were a high quality build. 95% of trucks are not built to show quality. A good portion of the really high dollar trucks (or other vehicles) sold at auctions are restomods. I guess people with big wallets like modern power trains, frames, suspensions, brakes, and AC etc. so SPID's didn't much matter to the buyer. I like them old school but quality restorations. I don't buy trucks or cars built, I build them the way I want them but as stock as possible. On vehicles with a pedigree that can be proven to anyone via paper like a GTO, Canadian built Chevy, pre 67 Chrysler Corp. then providence is super important. A clone GTO will never bring what a real GTO brings if they are the same quality restoration. My point is and was that with trucks people getting into this hobby should have their first focus on the condition of the truck not the SPID. A rusty CST or Cheyenne is still a rusty truck. Just my opinion.

[rsavage]

Originally Posted by 68panelman

I'm from New York, I don't trust anybody

I'm from New York too but the western part of the state - we don't trust anyone from the NYC end of the state

[68panelman]

Originally Posted by rsavage

I'm from New York too but the western part of the state - we don't trust anyone from the NYC end of the state

Funny,.. wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn?

[special-K]

If the seller has the truck listed as a Cheyenne then the SPID matters. If the SPID doesn't say it's a Cheyenne then it isn't, it's a truck that someone put Cheyenne Emblems on. If it has everything put on it from a Cheyenne, then you have the same truck as a Cheyenne you can enjoy just as much, if being factory correct doesn't matter to you. And why should it matter, after all, if it was just bought to drive and enjoy? It matters to someone wanting the real deal, someone who is into these trucks more than just how they look and drive. But the reason it matters that it's not a true Cheyenne to everybody is because the seller isn't being honest. And if the seller isn't being honest about a thing that will become obvious as soon as you look at the SPID, then you should be wondering what else dishonest is going on, what else was not true that the seller claimed? It all depends on how the seller goes about it. I would buy that truck not caring about Cheyenne being on the SPID if the seller came right out and said he just added on all the Cheyenne stuff to make it cooler. I would not buy that same truck if the seller insisted it was a real Cheyenne and it wasn't listed on the SPID.

I have a '67 GMC SWB project. Guess what? It's not a '67 GMC. It is built from various years, beginning with a '71 chassis. The cab isn't '67 so the dash isn't. I have all the '67 GMC stuff to make it look like one. It's built from OEM 67-72 parts with the outside appearance of a '67 GMC. It's a lot easier to say '67 GMC than all that. But I am very forthright about what it exactly is and what it isn't. It is my creation from GM's parts in whatever year it gets completed. If I ever do go to sell it the potential buyers will have to make time to hear the truck's true story. I have 'created' a truck or two, including a 50th Anniversary SWB. When I sold that I made no mention of it being a 50th. I had knowledgeable people ask if it was and some didn't ask but assumed it was until I got to the part where I told about making it look like a 50th.

And I don't care how other people feel about it. To me a truck that is true to the SPID is still and always will be worth more than a creation. Those are certainly less desirable to me (and far more common)

Which is why I am happy I have two build sheets for my K10 SWB Cheyenne— they back up the SPID and avoid what ifs. Protecto Plate and old PO pictures further add to provenance. Of course, I am a purist— my 62’ big brake fulie Vette is correct with all date coded parts—all this stuff matters to me but that is only me— reasonable minds can differ.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by special-K

If the seller has the truck listed as a Cheyenne then the SPID matters. If the SPID doesn't say it's a Cheyenne then it isn't, it's a truck that someone put Cheyenne Emblems on. If it has everything put on it from a Cheyenne, then you have the same truck as a Cheyenne you can enjoy just as much, if being factory correct doesn't matter to you. And why should it matter, after all, if it was just bought to drive and enjoy? It matters to someone wanting the real deal, someone who is into these trucks more than just how they look and drive. But the reason it matters that it's not a true Cheyenne to everybody is because the seller isn't being honest. And if the seller isn't being honest about a thing that will become obvious as soon as you look at the SPID, then you should be wondering what else dishonest is going on, what else was not true that the seller claimed? It all depends on how the seller goes about it. I would buy that truck not caring about Cheyenne being on the SPID if the seller came right out and said he just added on all the Cheyenne stuff to make it cooler. I would not buy that same truck if the seller insisted it was a real Cheyenne and it wasn't listed on the SPID.

I have a '67 GMC SWB project. Guess what? It's not a '67 GMC. It is built from various years, beginning with a '71 chassis. The cab isn't '67 so the dash isn't. I have all the '67 GMC stuff to make it look like one. It's built from OEM 67-72 parts with the outside appearance of a '67 GMC. It's a lot easier to say '67 GMC than all that. But I am very forthright about what it exactly is and what it isn't. It is my creation from GM's parts in whatever year it gets completed. If I ever do go to sell it the potential buyers will have to make time to hear the truck's true story. I have 'created' a truck or two, including a 50th Anniversary SWB. When I sold that I made no mention of it being a 50th. I had knowledgeable people ask if it was and some didn't ask but assumed it was until I got to the part where I told about making it look like a 50th.

And I don't care how other people feel about it. To me a truck that is true to the SPID is still and always will be worth more than a creation. Those are certainly less desirable to me (and far more common)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=060A15ELz00

[toolboxchev]

Originally Posted by 68panelman

I'm from New York, I don't trust anybody

Well how do you get anything done? All used vehicles are Buyer Beware. Funny thing about the Automotive aftermarket, if you slap some paint on the outside of rust it instantly becomes a gem!

Mine runs like a top, looks like crap and I could not get the money and time I have invested in it.

People want pretty. Its a vain world out there.

[rsavage]

Kevin I certainly don't disagree with the need for any seller to be honest. The OP started by stating "good advice for those just getting into the hobby". My opinion, which I expressed, was that I believe that someone just getting into the hobby should be more concerned about the shape of the vehicle that they want to buy as opposed to just being concerned about having a loaded SPID. How many times have you seen over the years people buying their first trucks that have serious nearly unrepairable rust issues, projects that are beyond their wallet and abilities, and trucks once pulled apart and the extent of problems discovered are left abandoned in pieces?

[kidatheart]

Originally Posted by rsavage

Kevin I certainly don't disagree with the need for any seller to be honest. The OP started by stating "good advice for those just getting into the hobby". My opinion, which I expressed, was that I believe that someone just getting into the hobby should be more concerned about the shape of the vehicle that they want to buy as opposed to just being concerned about having a loaded SPID. How many times have you seen over the years people buying their first trucks that have serious nearly unrepairable rust issues, projects that are beyond their wallet and abilities, and trucks once pulled apart and the extent of problems discovered are left abandoned in pieces?

i worked in body shops for years and owned my own for a while, and all I can add is “Amen”!

[special-K]

I found this truck on FBM. I see the SPID shows it had no trim option at all. Just full foam seat, side trim, & two-tone. It was done over nicely at some point. Someone did a lot of work. The interior is the only thing that isn't right. The thing I like least about this listing is it states original paint. It was originally medium blue & dark blue with blue interior. Someone added the white door panels and carpet. But the exterior was done quite thoroughly and looks right. They even did the window brightwork.

The seller might have gotten crappy because they believe it's a Cheyenne. Maybe they don't know enough to know if the SPID doesn't say it, it's not original. FB is full of know it alls that don't know what's what but think they do.

[chevy71super]

I found it interesting the original colors on the SPID was Dark Blue/Med Blue. Would like to have seen what it looked like out of the factory.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by mrtoni

Except John Cougar and Axl Rose but only sometimes

after the plastic surgery, axl doesn’t match his SPID any more either.

[72 tigger]

Originally Posted by chevy71super

I found it interesting the original colors on the SPID was Dark Blue/Med Blue. Would like to have seen what it looked like out of the factory.

Should look like this- not the best pic

[HeavyHauler]

Originally Posted by rsavage

Never quite understood the fascination with SPIDs. You can build these trucks any way you want and get a SPID to match. Unlike a Pontiac with PHS, there aren't markers ie VIN, trim tags that proves a truck's build other than engine and then you can only tell 6 or 8. Build sheets are very rare. I see folks getting all excited about a truck that has serious, serious rust issues because when it was built, it was loaded - according to the SPID. My advice on these trucks is to buy the most rust free vehicle to start with and build it how you want it. When they were new, that's exactly what you could do - walk into a dealer and order virtually anything you wanted.

Everybody knows you can build a truck how you want and then buy a fake SPID to match what you did. But it will not be original and dont expect others to except it as a factory original. There are real factory SPIDs which document a truck in how it came from the factory. If the VIN on the frame and other locations of the truck match that of original SPID then it is original. Nothing can change that. Building a truck how you want it is fine but definitely not original and certainly nothing like when somebody walked into the dealership and ordered it from the factory.