'51 3100 Rust-O-Rod

[Hayjay13]

First time on this site. I got a bug in me and decided to take on a old car build. When I happened upon AD truck from SW Missouri I starting the planning and ordering. I'm all about handling and balance so this is what I came up with...

LQ4 6.0 with a carb conversion, 750 Demon carb
T-56 6-speed from a 04-07 Cadillac CTS-V
Heidt's superride 2 with 550# springs
05-06 GTO independent rear with coilover conversion
GTO/C5/C6 Vette brakes


Pictures:

[Hayjay13]

Some more...

-Old tractor pan seat with fabricated seat backs and adjustable brackets
-Tubular floor subframe with removable floor and trans tunnel
-Very, very stiff frame...

[Hayjay13]

More

-Manual wipers...
-Wilwood 3 master cylinder setup with balance bar on brakes
-custom linkage for shifter

[Hayjay13]

More...

-Aim Mychron 3 race digital dash
-Drive shaft shop custom drive shaft
- dual 3" X-over exhaust with 10 series flowmasters
- Simpson cam lock 4-point harnesses

[seanery]

sweet!

[shadow1967]

How did you get the front GTO brakes to mount on the mustang spindles?

[Hayjay13]

Originally Posted by shadow1967

How did you get the front GTO brakes to mount on the mustang spindles?

Made a bracket from some 1/4" steel plate. Same design as the Heidt's kit that mounts the Willwood superlight calipers...which I still have if anyone is interested.

[oldman3]

Killer....Jim

[69CST-V]

You have awesome vision and skills to help us see it. Sweet build. I like where you're going with this.
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[wayne4252004]

Killer project. Where did you find the tractor seats?

[focusedontheprize]

Very cool setup. Interested to see the finished product from just this work.

Question:

I am just started to get my toes into Chassis Engineering. In the future, I would like to put something underneath my '49 that is autocross worthy. I have miles to go (in the learning section) before I even do. However, when I see guys who run a more "complex" suspension setup, I see a large amount of them reusing the stock frame (boxing and bracing).

Is the frame really that structurally sound than just boxing and bracing it will allow you to run it hard?

Reason I ask, I never pictured these frames to be setup (dimensions and geometry) for running this as an autocross setup even with the bracing and boxing. Seems I was wrong, but I am wondering what I missed.

Thanks.

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by focusedontheprize

Very cool setup. Interested to see the finished product from just this work.

Question:

I am just started to get my toes into Chassis Engineering. In the future, I would like to put something underneath my '49 that is autocross worthy. I have miles to go (in the learning section) before I even do. However, when I see guys who run a more "complex" suspension setup, I see a large amount of them reusing the stock frame (boxing and bracing).

Is the frame really that structurally sound than just boxing and bracing it will allow you to run it hard?

Reason I ask, I never pictured these frames to be setup (dimensions and geometry) for running this as an autocross setup even with the bracing and boxing. Seems I was wrong, but I am wondering what I missed.

Thanks.

Herb Adams Book Chassis engineering will help.

[Hayjay13]

Originally Posted by wayne4252004

Killer project. Where did you find the tractor seats?

Ebay. The home for tons of crap...

[Hayjay13]

Originally Posted by focusedontheprize

Very cool setup. Interested to see the finished product from just this work.

Question:

I am just started to get my toes into Chassis Engineering. In the future, I would like to put something underneath my '49 that is autocross worthy. I have miles to go (in the learning section) before I even do. However, when I see guys who run a more "complex" suspension setup, I see a large amount of them reusing the stock frame (boxing and bracing).

Is the frame really that structurally sound than just boxing and bracing it will allow you to run it hard?

Reason I ask, I never pictured these frames to be setup (dimensions and geometry) for running this as an autocross setup even with the bracing and boxing. Seems I was wrong, but I am wondering what I missed.

Thanks.

It's an interesting balance. A race car chassis is tuned through the suspension. That lessens the variability and helps consistent feedback. A street car has compliance in the chassis for comfort and cost. The older trucks are designed for ultimate compliance. Riveted frames are great for driving all over a farm pasture and not developing stress cracks. I wanted to use some of the frame for my build but realized early the original cross bracing and C-channel wasn't going to cut it. The size of the beam itself isn't bad (roughly 6X3" in some areas). So the issue becomes how its boxed and what system is used for torsional rigidity. I used a series of cross members and triangulated that all together. I also solid mounted the engine and cab. The cab has a rigid subfloor that helps stiffness. Now, this is never going to be as stiff and caged vehicle or anything that has a frame further away from the axis of torsion (like a good unibody or monocoque), but pretty good none the less.

The wheelbase is 116" I believe. This makes a terrible auto-X vehicle. Mixed with the width and vision perspective and you have a cone eater. I wanted to take my truck to a solo event for giggles but haven't got there yet. Any chassis can be tuned if you put the time and effort in. My opinion:

1. Ditch the front suspension
2. 4-link a rear end
3. Box the frame from the front coil mounts to the rear coilover mounts
4. Add extra bracing at transmission mount and 4-link mount
5. Get everything reasonably low (engine and suspension) to control polar moments. *don't exceed the suspension's optimal position because you'l get all types of bump induced crap*

[focusedontheprize]

Originally Posted by mknittle

Herb Adams Book Chassis engineering will help.

Just snagged his book a few weeks ago and started it on Sunday. Taking notes. It is a great read.

Originally Posted by Hayjay13

It's an interesting balance. A race car chassis is tuned through the suspension. That lessens the variability and helps consistent feedback. A street car has compliance in the chassis for comfort and cost. The older trucks are designed for ultimate compliance. Riveted frames are great for driving all over a farm pasture and not developing stress cracks. I wanted to use some of the frame for my build but realized early the original cross bracing and C-channel wasn't going to cut it. The size of the beam itself isn't bad (roughly 6X3" in some areas). So the issue becomes how its boxed and what system is used for torsional rigidity. I used a series of cross members and triangulated that all together. I also solid mounted the engine and cab. The cab has a rigid subfloor that helps stiffness. Now, this is never going to be as stiff and caged vehicle or anything that has a frame further away from the axis of torsion (like a good unibody or monocoque), but pretty good none the less.

The wheelbase is 116" I believe. This makes a terrible auto-X vehicle. Mixed with the width and vision perspective and you have a cone eater. I wanted to take my truck to a solo event for giggles but haven't got there yet. Any chassis can be tuned if you put the time and effort in. My opinion:

1. Ditch the front suspension
2. 4-link a rear end
3. Box the frame from the front coil mounts to the rear coilover mounts
4. Add extra bracing at transmission mount and 4-link mount
5. Get everything reasonably low (engine and suspension) to control polar moments. *don't exceed the suspension's optimal position because you'l get all types of bump induced crap*

Very interesting. Thanks for the response. Either way, a "cone eater" is not what I am thinking. If yours is a cone eater, mine will be a "wall pounder".

Awesome ride though.

[Chevette]

Interesting. I like what you're doing. I do wonder though, with the cornering capability of that hot rod, how you're going to keep your ass in that tractor seat.

[Hayjay13]

Originally Posted by Chevette

Interesting. I like what you're doing. I do wonder though, with the cornering capability of that hot rod, how you're going to keep your ass in that tractor seat.

4-point

[Hayjay13]

Anyone else up at Woodward Dream Cruise this last weekend? Was an amazing weekend with a lot of interesting vehicles.

[_Ogre]

friday was cool, saturday was a 6 mile long, 5 lane parking lot
nice ride, my butt hates your seats

[hotrod1]

This is great. Can u show more pics of the motor mounts and also how they attached to the frame?

I like the dataloger. Did you make the mount in the dash or did it come with a weldable metal insert?

[Hayjay13]

Originally Posted by hotrod1

This is great. Can u show more pics of the motor mounts and also how they attached to the frame?

I like the dataloger. Did you make the mount in the dash or did it come with a weldable metal insert?

Motor mount - 3/16 steel with a gusset. Also made the column mount for the AIM Mychron.

[69CST-V]

Any updates?

[Hayjay13]

Originally Posted by 69CST-V

Any updates?

It's done in the spirit of the rat. This is up at Woodward Dream Cruise.

[69CST-V]

Man that's bad arse. Great job.
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