Another NV4500 to NP205

[Orange Crate]

Originally Posted by snj8198

How's this project going OC?

I need mo' money....!

[snj8198]

Haha!

[Orange Crate]

Since it is too cold to be in the garage I'd like to post an internet find here for the NV4500 assembly manual. I can not figure out how to reduce the file size any further than 1.2Mb (down from 3.4Mb) and the limit to attach here is 275Kb. If anyone wants a copy, PM me with your email and I'll send it that way. Sorry it is for a later 2001 Dodge version but you get the idea anyway right? I think what I will do is disassemble mine and then order just the bearings/parts that I feel need to be changed instead of buying a total rebuild kit like some vendors put together. As an example one vendor has a bearing kit that goes for around $330 and that includes what they call a small parts kit. I'll see what condition my parts are in first and then go from there to try to keep the cost down. I basically did the same thing on my NP205 and bough each bearing I needed separately and that allowed me to get good old made in the USA bearings at a little extra cost for the good stuff. I know I'll need syncros for sure already. Here is a tease shot since pictures are everything....

[Orange Crate]

I'm at the point where I need to remove the main shaft bearing and the counter shaft bearing to complete my NV4500 disassembly. What have you used to remove your bearings, short of ordering the factory tool pictured.? It seems to me that a normal bearing splitter might not work due to the small clearance between the bearing and the gear face (see arrow). I made a 5th gear nut wrench that worked perfectly. I had to stand on the end of the "wrench" that is 30" long and I'm 165lbs so that is somewhere around 300ft lbs. I cut up an old 32 spline long input shaft from an NP205 as the main shaft counter hold portion. It took me about six hours total to make both out of scrap steel I had in the shop. Recycle!

[Orange Crate]

Alrighty then. I got a cheap clamshell style puller online to see if it would work and it did for two of the three bearings. The one bearing it will not work on is the tapered roller on the forward side of the counter shaft. I'll cut that one off just to save time.

Here is the new puller in action. I had to use an old piece of DOM tube as a spacer since the one provided in the kit was too long. One thing that was really frustrating is that the new tool has no place to counter hold, to stop it from spinning. I may weld a couple of flats on there for future use. So both the main and counter shafts are completely disassembled now and they both look in really good shape. I can tell this NV has been overhauled at least once before as there are a few clues like silicon sealant and a few scratches on the shafts where the bearings reside. I'll need all new bearings and syncros and a new input shaft as that is toast. The splines are really worn where the clutch disk was riding and the stub nose where it joins the flywheel pilot bearing is also trashed. I just need to sell a kidney or something to get the rebuild kit.....

[sweetk30]

fyi that style puller needs the race set on the bearing to help it stay toghter when pulling off .

and if your doing gear setup adding & removing shims this fact is real important to not trash your new bearings .

[Orange Crate]

Yes, this kind of puller does trash your bearings, but they're OFF! and the new ones will be a lot easier to install, cool the shaft with dry ice and heat the bearing to about 350. No diff work just yet.

[sweetk30]

cause like I said you didn't set the race on the bearing first and set the rings up correctly .

if done right you can pull off and reuse as many times as you want .

also lube the heck out of the threads with copper anti-sieze .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUqSZelTSfI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkPPwfzD8Vg

[Orange Crate]

Oh, right, the outer race should be placed back on top of the bearing and then pulled. Don't really care at this point but thanks for the tip for future reference. These bearings need to be replaced anyway due to the wear patterns. I cut the counter shaft end bearing off earlier today so now I just need a bearing and small parts kit. Donations anybody? Ha.

[notchbackgta]

I am wanting to rebuild my NV4500 to save money too, I got the Kent Moore kit for the trans off ebay for a low price, but I can't find that tool you made for the rear bearing. I may have to think about making one like you did. I hadn't thought about making what I need.

[BDC1]

When you talk about the cast iron adapter are you referring to the four wheel drive tail housing of the nv4500? I finally picked up a round bolter and am plotting my attack. I didn't make quite the score of 200 dollars though.

Any updates on yours?

[Orange Crate]

Originally Posted by BDC1

When you talk about the cast iron adapter are you referring to the four wheel drive tail housing of the nv4500? I finally picked up a round bolter and am plotting my attack. I didn't make quite the score of 200 dollars though.

Any updates on yours?

Yes, but not much of an update. I saved a few dollars and just ordered a bearing and synchro kit plus a new input shaft. Should be here this week. That didn't take long...only 6 months of no beer or steaks on the grill.....now I really want a beer and a steak.....

[Orange Crate]

Not a lot of progress but some. I ordered a couple of different rebuild kits and some parts were missing. Mainly the idle gear needle bearings weren't the right ones in the needle bearing kit. I assembled most of the main shaft and have the counter shaft ready to install into the case as soon as the replacement needle bearings show up. The reverse idle gear and bearings are the first thing you put into the case and then the counter shaft and then the main shaft, so the missing idle gear bearings held up the whole show. To re-assemble I followed this thread here:
https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/9...formation.html This guy actually assembled his NV4500 opposite of the pdf copy procedure I also have. (I can send anyone a copy if you send me a PM) the pdf is for a 2001 Dodge NV4500 manual, which has a synchro reverse gear (just skip that part if you have an early GM version). First pic is of the assembled main shaft. Second pic is the assembled input gear and front cover. Third pic is the carnage of scrap parts. I needed a new input shaft as the original was worn slap out. I also found damage on the 5th gear clutch cone, I'm not sure what happened there but it looked like someone had it in a vice and then installed it. There were blue burn marks from the displaced metal where it was riding on the synchro. Alrighty then..waiting on a big brown truck.

[Orange Crate]

Here is the stack up if anyone was wondering what they were looking at. 4th gear is the input shaft shown in the second pic in the previous post. 4th gear ratio is 1:1 so you just lock the input shaft to the main shaft and hit the gas baby! Still waiting on the big brown truck.....

[Orange Crate]

Some progress. My replacement reverse gear needle bearings showed up. The place I bought my parts from didn't charge me for them as they shipped the wrong kit the first time (for a 97 and up I have a 92). I installed the reverse idle gear and then shimmed the counter shaft which allowed me to finally put the assembled main shaft into the case and shim the end play for that completed unit. I ended up with .002" for the counter shaft and .004" for the main. I still need to install 5th gear and the new nut and torque that to about 270 ft lbs. Pics are from input side and output side. Alright it just has to warm up some as it was 20f in the garage....

[Orange Crate]

Well the trans is back together. I installed the 5th gear assembly and synchros plus the shift fork. I didn't seal any of the covers yet as it was too cold in the garage. If you look closely at this last picture you can see frost has formed! When it gets warmer I'll repaint the top cover and RTV the rest of the covers. For now that's an overhauled NV4500, all new bearings and synchros a new input shaft and a new 5th gear clutch. I guess it's time to buy the really expensive oil. I found this trans for $700 and have another $480 in parts. If I needed to do this again I think I would just order one from a rebuilder for a little more than I have into mine and be done with it.

[Wide Open]

I see your transmission doesn’t have the damper on the tail shaft. Is there any benefit to using one or can it be removed to save rotating mass without negative effect? Both of mine have the damper.
Yours is going behind your 406 correct?
Are you modifying the tailhousing adapter to accommodate the original shifter or going with twin sticks? It may have been mentioned earlier in the thread but I’m not seeing it using my phone. ����

[SunSoaked]

I could be wrong but...I did a lot of research on the damper because I have a few 4500's and they all have it. However, the info is conflicting. I read that the diesel applications used them due to thier use of "dual mass flywheels." I know for a fact that one of mine with the damper came behind a gas motor. So I'm not sure, it's already there so I'm just going to leave it be.

[Orange Crate]

Originally Posted by Wide Open

I see your transmission doesn’t have the damper on the tail shaft. Is there any benefit to using one or can it be removed to save rotating mass without negative effect? Both of mine have the damper.
Yours is going behind your 406 correct?
Are you modifying the tailhousing adapter to accommodate the original shifter or going with twin sticks? It may have been mentioned earlier in the thread but I’m not seeing it using my phone. ����

Wide Open,
I have not looked at that issue. The spacer on my trans, in place of the damper, is the way I bought it. It was from a K3500 with a pile of miles on it, close to 300K. It was rebuilt at least once already as I can see some damage on the main shaft around the rear bearing (nothing I am too concerned about). This trans was well used and lived without the damper. Yes, it will go behind my 406. I have already fabbed up a twin stick set up using two original shifters. Pictures of it are in post #2. I decided to use the AA bell housing just to save some grief looking for parts. AA has it all laid out on their site. I have a clutch pedal that needs to be looked at and installed. I'll go with the hydraulic clutch set up AA recommends. I just need to save a little more to buy the AA BH. It took a while to put enough aside for the NV rebuild. I do my own work as a way to keep this on some kind of a budget build. (It hasn't worked!). There is a saying that goes "A sailboat is a hole in the ocean you pour money into" I say this truck is a "pothole in the road I pour money into" but I wouldn't have it any other way cuz, ya gotta live, right?

[Wide Open]

Yeah I haven’t been able to find solid answers either that’s why I thought I would ask. I have two; a 96 or 97 that came behind a 6.5 and an earlier one with the closer bolt pattern that I don’t know what it originally came behind. It did come with a shifter and shift knob that matches what I have in my 86. Both have the same 1st/low gear.

[Orange Crate]

Not a whole lot of progress but some. I fabbed up a couple of links from 3/8" rod to try to get an idea of where my shift levers will end up relative to my bench seat when they are in 2 H, 4 H & L for each axle (front wheel drive only, rear wheel drive ect). The picture shows both axles in 4 H, so I think I want the links a little shorter to place the levers farther forward. I'll measure the links when I feel they are in the right place and then build the final linkage out of proper 3/8" rod ends. It's not completely visible but I have two original shifter levers together for my twin stink set up. You have to look closely but they are there. Alrighty then.....

[franken]

I like the stock lever twin stick setup. I was thinking of doing the same but while I have 4 205 shifters, all are different. Two are shaped very similarly, but one is forged and the other is make of parts and welded. All are GM. Both of yours look like the forged ones.

Did you fab a bracket and bolt to place them in that spot? It seems a bit far back to me, but I could be wrong.

More close pics of the twin stick linkage and mounting would be nice.

[Orange Crate]

Originally Posted by franken

I like the stock lever twin stick setup. I was thinking of doing the same but while I have 4 205 shifters, all are different. Two are shaped very similarly, but one is forged and the other is make of parts and welded. All are GM. Both of yours look like the forged ones.

Did you fab a bracket and bolt to place them in that spot? It seems a bit far back to me, but I could be wrong.

More close pics of the twin stick linkage and mounting would be nice.

Yes my levers are the forged ones. I did fab a bracket for the pivot bolt. If you right click on the image you can save it to your confuser and then zoom in on it. The bracket is crude right now as I am just making sure that pivot location will work. I can create another bracket if there is something that won't line up or move it around for whatever reason. The linkage is just temporary also just to test function and clearance.

[sweetk30]

i dont know the spacing on a 67-72 truck but on a 80's k5 blazer i am doing it has a offroad design twin stick setup on a nv4500 with the 1-5/8 advanced adapter spacer kit .

the ord twin stick spacer is only 1-1/4" thick for the shifter bolt mount unlike your looong one you made .

hope this info helps if not your combo looks good . i did one for a guy a few years ago with 2 stock levers and it worked real good .

[Orange Crate]

Originally Posted by sweetk30

i dont know the spacing on a 67-72 truck but on a 80's k5 blazer i am doing it has a offroad design twin stick setup on a nv4500 with the 1-5/8 advanced adapter spacer kit .

the ord twin stick spacer is only 1-1/4" thick for the shifter bolt mount unlike your looong one you made .

hope this info helps if not your combo looks good . i did one for a guy a few years ago with 2 stock levers and it worked real good .

I am not using a spacer on my set up. It is an NV4500 bolted to a 6 bolt round pattern NP205. You might be thinking that the tail housing is a spacer, but it is not. Under the tail housing is 5th gear and the shift fork for that. Take a look at post #47, it clearly shows what is under the tail housing. This is the shortest NV to NP conversion possible. I tried to put the shift lever pivot point in the same location as stock. I have in my truck an NP205 mated to a TH350 right now, so I just took measurements off of that.