Gonna cost me more $$ - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

weq92f · 05-23-2023, 06:32 PM

.

Working on converting from r4 pancake to Sanden unit and decided I needed to service my radiator...maybe even take it to a shop for a go-through. It's a 4 row brass/copper unit and is of unknown age.

While removing it, I broke off the heater feed line barb. What would you guys do? Allow a shop to clean and repair this radiator or purchase a new one?

The BBC this thing cools runs right at the top of the range temp wise and creeps up at idle with A/C running. My best guess is that it runs at about 220 to 230...that's why I was considering having a shop refurbish it.

-klb

72SB · 05-23-2023, 06:56 PM

Well if its original and you want to preserve that than have it serviced.

With that said a modern design radiator using fewer but larger cores (2 row 1 1/4-1 1/2") will cool better than a 3-4 row with smaller cores.

running hot while moving at hwy speeds indicates a clogged system. getting hot in traffic, stop & go, indicates not enough fan and or shroud.

7 blade fan with fan clutch

My $.02 on a replacement radiator is Cold Case. You can paint them black if you want them to look more original. I know they typically copy side tank stampings from original.

**dmjlambert** · 05-23-2023, 07:24 PM

I suggest clean and repair.

**Lost in the 60's** · 05-23-2023, 08:05 PM

Check prices on a replacement and you may well be looking for a reputable repair shop, if any still exist in your local. Repair shops have all but disappeared around me. I can't find a copper/brass rad for my '89 C3500, they have all gone to aluminum.
Soldering that nipple back on is no big deal for a shop. They will, most likely, remove the tanks to rod out the tubes, or suggest replacing the whole core.

**HO455** · 05-23-2023, 08:05 PM

Personally I would I would repair it if possible. As stated creeping up at idle or in stop and go traffic usually means more air flow is needed and a shroud to make sure the air is being pulled through the entire radiator.
What are your current fans rated at? At what voltage?

When you say it's running at the top of the range is that with the factory guage?
If it's the factory guage it may have had this happen.

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=840259

**dmjlambert** · 05-23-2023, 09:04 PM

I liked Bill’s Radiator & Muffler on K Ave in Plano when I lived there. They did a good job for me at a reasonable price. It took them a couple weeks to work on my radiator, but I was pleased with their work and they seem to know what they're doing.

weq92f · 05-23-2023, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HO455

Personally I would I would repair it if possible. As stated creeping up at idle or in stop and go traffic usually means more air flow is needed and a shroud to make sure the air is being pulled through the entire radiator.
What are your current fans rated at? At what voltage?

When you say it's running at the top of the range is that with the factory guage?
If it's the factory guage it may have had this happen.

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=840259

.

The fans are generic "Pro Series" fans that draw 12 amps and are rated at 1200 CFM each. Both shroud and fans were purchased from ChampionRadiators.com. The creep only occurs with the A/C running. I can switch off the A/C and watch the thing cool down rather quickly. The "shroud" mounts the fans about 1/2 inch above the fins.

I'm estimating the temp based on an aftermarket Classic Instruments gauge that gets its reading from the intake mounted sensor.

-klb

MARKDTN · 05-24-2023, 09:25 AM

I would also have your radiator fixed.

As far as fans, looks like they have a decent shroud to get all the air so that's good. I have never been impressed with aftermarket fans. I'm sure decent ones exist but I have not had any. There are some very good stock ones out there-C4 and C5 Corvette, 3rd and 4th Gen Camaro have dual single speed. Ford 3.8 Taurus/Sable and Lincoln MK VIII and some Volvo have big single 2 speed fans. 2000ish Contour has nice dual 2-speeds. There is a Jeep Cherokee fan that is well regarded too.

72SB · 05-24-2023, 10:06 AM

On this and other forums there are countless threads about EL fan issues. In general, most do not pull enough air, especially on AC cars as the additional condenser is in front of radiator. Hi $ brushless fans have been the solution.

OP's note his most trouble is while using AC which would indicate his current EL fans are just not enough. This coupled with a radiator that may not be flowing as well if it should if his is old would compound the problem.

If temp gauge sender is in intake manifold, head sender would show even a higher temp

If EL fan setup has adjustment to turn on fans at lower temps, I would set it lower.

**HO455** · 05-24-2023, 01:19 PM

The problem with many lower cost fans is the advertised CFM rating is achieved at 14 or 16 volts. In the real world where they are running at 13.5 to 12 volts the CFM they move is lower.

In my opinion 2400 CFM is the lowest I would use on a 400 cubic inch stock engine. On my 401 AMC which is around 310 hp at the rear wheels I have four 1200 CFM Spal fans using a 2 row 1 inch tube aluminum radiator to keep it cool in traffic all year long.

Willie Makeit · 05-24-2023, 01:54 PM

repair it, it's a 5 minute braze job

weq92f · 05-24-2023, 02:04 PM

.

Thanks everyone!

I'll be dropping it off at a local shop today for repair.

I agree with you guys...the fans I'm running are likely not moving enough air. I'm looking at a pair of these as replacements...

Spal, Electric, Single, 14.00 in. Diameter, 1,864 cfm, 12 V, Puller

At 172 bucks each they are not cheap but their rating is definitely more true than the generic fans currently installed. I suspect the drop in CFM at normal voltages and under pressure isn't as drastic as the generics either.

-klb

**Jason Banks** · 05-24-2023, 03:24 PM

I've got a pair of these on an LS Swap 6.0 and have had no issues:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009OBOSTU/

**HO455** · 05-24-2023, 04:57 PM

It's not apples to apples comparing an LS to a Gen 1 BBC. The efficiency of the LS engine is so much higher. This means more of the cylinder heat goes out of the exhaust and thus the cooling system has less heat to remove from the block. One reason they make more horsepower per cubic inch.

mr.mud1 · 05-25-2023, 12:05 AM

sounds like you're having it repaired.it was soldered on from the factory,no reason why it can't be re-soldered.i do my own rads here and usually take those fittings off,clean everything and re-solder anyway,just to know they're in good shape.

**Lost in the 60's** · 05-25-2023, 08:30 AM

Another important part of electric fans I haven't seen mentioned is the gauge of wire and the relay rating. A small diameter wire will choke the fans ability to run at it's best, as well as a relay rated too low. Your new fans may well require an upgrade there too. I run my fans power direct from the battery, with a Dakota digital fan controller to set the on, off temps and to run after shut down.

MARKDTN · 05-25-2023, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HO455

It's not apples to apples comparing an LS to a Gen 1 BBC. The efficiency of the LS engine is so much higher. This means more of the cylinder heat goes out of the exhaust and thus the cooling system has less heat to remove from the block. One reason they make more horsepower per cubic inch.

Agree. My '01 Tahoe with 5.3 ate the seal in the water pump (at 240K miles). I happened in late July coming home from my parents house 200 miles away. We got home around 1:00AM. It was dark, but air temps in the high 80s so A/C on. I never realized anything was wrong until I got home and saw it was dripping. The temp gauge never went higher than usual. It was about 2 gallons low the next morning.

weq92f · 05-25-2023, 02:52 PM

.

The relays and harness I used when the fans were installed were purchased from a board member here. I don't recall the amp rating on the relays but the harness itself was well made with appropriate gauge wire.

-klb

weq92f · 06-02-2023, 05:26 PM

.

Local radiator shop cleaned, repaired and painted the thing. Cost was 88 bucks. Should receive the new spal fans today.

-klb

cornerstone · 06-02-2023, 07:03 PM

Good decision at a better than fair price too.

body bolt · 06-02-2023, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weq92f

.

Local radiator shop cleaned, repaired and painted the thing. Cost was 88 bucks. Should receive the new spal fans today.

-klb

That's a steal.

**RenoKeene** · 06-02-2023, 09:19 PM

Interesting that the stock A/C setup from the factory on big block trucks actually worked...well sort of.

**Lost in the 60's** · 06-03-2023, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weq92f

.

Local radiator shop cleaned, repaired and painted the thing. Cost was 88 bucks. Should receive the new spal fans today.

-klb

Wow, I couldn't get the one local guy to repair mine. He's retired and only works once in a while. He initially said anywhere from $150 to 250 to repair. You got a REALLY good deal there. I had to buy a new aluminum and fricken plastic tank rad for my truck. It does seem well built and cost $240, so wasn't a price difference from quoted repair.

**dmjlambert** · 06-03-2023, 10:50 AM

There were a couple years where the copper/brass ones were not available or hard to find, but I see they are back and reproduced nowadays. About $450 to $900.

72c20customcamper · 06-03-2023, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weq92f

.

Local radiator shop cleaned, repaired and painted the thing. Cost was 88 bucks. Should receive the new spal fans today.

-klb

There’s only one shop around me that does radiator/gas tank repair . They won’t even look at it for $88 . They wanted $225 just to boil out the tank for my Chevelle . Didn’t give a price if there was a leak repair and another 75 to seal it after the repairs . I bought a SS tank from Ausley Chevelle at the spring Carlisle for 175 show special . They are 270 now

05-23-2023, 06:32 PM	#1
weq92f Registered User Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 2,879	Gonna cost me more $$ . Working on converting from r4 pancake to Sanden unit and decided I needed to service my radiator...maybe even take it to a shop for a go-through. It's a 4 row brass/copper unit and is of unknown age. While removing it, I broke off the heater feed line barb. What would you guys do? Allow a shop to clean and repair this radiator or purchase a new one? The BBC this thing cools runs right at the top of the range temp wise and creeps up at idle with A/C running. My best guess is that it runs at about 220 to 230...that's why I was considering having a shop refurbish it. -klb Attached Images __________________ 67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi 07 335 sport turbo 6sp 94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs 99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold 73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend 68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold

05-23-2023, 06:56 PM	#2
72SB Registered User Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 701	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ Well if its original and you want to preserve that than have it serviced. With that said a modern design radiator using fewer but larger cores (2 row 1 1/4-1 1/2") will cool better than a 3-4 row with smaller cores. running hot while moving at hwy speeds indicates a clogged system. getting hot in traffic, stop & go, indicates not enough fan and or shroud. 7 blade fan with fan clutch My $.02 on a replacement radiator is Cold Case. You can paint them black if you want them to look more original. I know they typically copy side tank stampings from original.

05-23-2023, 07:24 PM	#3
dmjlambert Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Cypress, TX Posts: 3,572	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ I suggest clean and repair.

05-23-2023, 08:05 PM	#4
Lost in the 60's Active Member Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Twin Cites, MN Posts: 161	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ Check prices on a replacement and you may well be looking for a reputable repair shop, if any still exist in your local. Repair shops have all but disappeared around me. I can't find a copper/brass rad for my '89 C3500, they have all gone to aluminum. Soldering that nipple back on is no big deal for a shop. They will, most likely, remove the tanks to rod out the tubes, or suggest replacing the whole core.

05-23-2023, 08:05 PM	#5
HO455 Post Whore Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 10,817	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ Personally I would I would repair it if possible. As stated creeping up at idle or in stop and go traffic usually means more air flow is needed and a shroud to make sure the air is being pulled through the entire radiator. What are your current fans rated at? At what voltage? When you say it's running at the top of the range is that with the factory guage? If it's the factory guage it may have had this happen. https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=840259 __________________ Thanks to Bob and Jeanie and everyone else at Superior Performance for all their great help. RIP Bob Parks. 1967 Burban the WMB,1991 S(stink)-10 Blazer,1969 GTO, 1970 Javelin, 1952 F2 Ford 4X4, 29 Model A, 72 Firebird. 85 Alfa Romeo If it breaks I didn't want it in the first place The WMB repair thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=698377

05-23-2023, 09:04 PM	#6
dmjlambert Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Cypress, TX Posts: 3,572	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ I liked Bill’s Radiator & Muffler on K Ave in Plano when I lived there. They did a good job for me at a reasonable price. It took them a couple weeks to work on my radiator, but I was pleased with their work and they seem to know what they're doing.

05-24-2023, 09:25 AM	#8
MARKDTN Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 2,133	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ I would also have your radiator fixed. As far as fans, looks like they have a decent shroud to get all the air so that's good. I have never been impressed with aftermarket fans. I'm sure decent ones exist but I have not had any. There are some very good stock ones out there-C4 and C5 Corvette, 3rd and 4th Gen Camaro have dual single speed. Ford 3.8 Taurus/Sable and Lincoln MK VIII and some Volvo have big single 2 speed fans. 2000ish Contour has nice dual 2-speeds. There is a Jeep Cherokee fan that is well regarded too. __________________ '83 K20-TPI '73 C10 '79 C10-ex-diesel(SOLD) '07 Tahoe(Son driving) '14 Suburban-DD '71 C10-current project

05-24-2023, 10:06 AM	#9
72SB Registered User Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: Moorpark, CA Posts: 701	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ On this and other forums there are countless threads about EL fan issues. In general, most do not pull enough air, especially on AC cars as the additional condenser is in front of radiator. Hi $ brushless fans have been the solution. OP's note his most trouble is while using AC which would indicate his current EL fans are just not enough. This coupled with a radiator that may not be flowing as well if it should if his is old would compound the problem. If temp gauge sender is in intake manifold, head sender would show even a higher temp If EL fan setup has adjustment to turn on fans at lower temps, I would set it lower.

05-24-2023, 01:19 PM	#10
HO455 Post Whore Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 10,817	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ The problem with many lower cost fans is the advertised CFM rating is achieved at 14 or 16 volts. In the real world where they are running at 13.5 to 12 volts the CFM they move is lower. In my opinion 2400 CFM is the lowest I would use on a 400 cubic inch stock engine. On my 401 AMC which is around 310 hp at the rear wheels I have four 1200 CFM Spal fans using a 2 row 1 inch tube aluminum radiator to keep it cool in traffic all year long. __________________ Thanks to Bob and Jeanie and everyone else at Superior Performance for all their great help. RIP Bob Parks. 1967 Burban the WMB,1991 S(stink)-10 Blazer,1969 GTO, 1970 Javelin, 1952 F2 Ford 4X4, 29 Model A, 72 Firebird. 85 Alfa Romeo If it breaks I didn't want it in the first place The WMB repair thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=698377

05-24-2023, 01:54 PM	#11
Willie Makeit Registered User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 1,206	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ repair it, it's a 5 minute braze job

05-24-2023, 02:04 PM	#12
weq92f Registered User Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 2,879	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ . Thanks everyone! I'll be dropping it off at a local shop today for repair. I agree with you guys...the fans I'm running are likely not moving enough air. I'm looking at a pair of these as replacements... Spal, Electric, Single, 14.00 in. Diameter, 1,864 cfm, 12 V, Puller At 172 bucks each they are not cheap but their rating is definitely more true than the generic fans currently installed. I suspect the drop in CFM at normal voltages and under pressure isn't as drastic as the generics either. -klb __________________ 67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi 07 335 sport turbo 6sp 94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs 99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold 73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend 68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold

05-24-2023, 03:24 PM	#13
Jason Banks Senior Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: TX Posts: 1,523	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ I've got a pair of these on an LS Swap 6.0 and have had no issues: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009OBOSTU/

05-24-2023, 04:57 PM	#14
HO455 Post Whore Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 10,817	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ It's not apples to apples comparing an LS to a Gen 1 BBC. The efficiency of the LS engine is so much higher. This means more of the cylinder heat goes out of the exhaust and thus the cooling system has less heat to remove from the block. One reason they make more horsepower per cubic inch. __________________ Thanks to Bob and Jeanie and everyone else at Superior Performance for all their great help. RIP Bob Parks. 1967 Burban the WMB,1991 S(stink)-10 Blazer,1969 GTO, 1970 Javelin, 1952 F2 Ford 4X4, 29 Model A, 72 Firebird. 85 Alfa Romeo If it breaks I didn't want it in the first place The WMB repair thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=698377

05-25-2023, 12:05 AM	#15
mr.mud1 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Joggins Nova Scotia Posts: 1,599	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ sounds like you're having it repaired.it was soldered on from the factory,no reason why it can't be re-soldered.i do my own rads here and usually take those fittings off,clean everything and re-solder anyway,just to know they're in good shape. Attached Images

05-25-2023, 08:30 AM	#16
Lost in the 60's Active Member Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Twin Cites, MN Posts: 161	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ Another important part of electric fans I haven't seen mentioned is the gauge of wire and the relay rating. A small diameter wire will choke the fans ability to run at it's best, as well as a relay rated too low. Your new fans may well require an upgrade there too. I run my fans power direct from the battery, with a Dakota digital fan controller to set the on, off temps and to run after shut down.



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05-25-2023, 02:52 PM	#18
weq92f Registered User Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 2,879	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ . The relays and harness I used when the fans were installed were purchased from a board member here. I don't recall the amp rating on the relays but the harness itself was well made with appropriate gauge wire. -klb Attached Images __________________ 67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi 07 335 sport turbo 6sp 94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs 99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold 73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend 68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold

06-02-2023, 05:26 PM	#19
weq92f Registered User Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 2,879	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ . Local radiator shop cleaned, repaired and painted the thing. Cost was 88 bucks. Should receive the new spal fans today. -klb __________________ 67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi 07 335 sport turbo 6sp 94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs 99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold 73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend 68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold

06-02-2023, 07:03 PM	#20
cornerstone Registered User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Azle,Texas Posts: 2,248	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ Good decision at a better than fair price too. __________________ Brian 1972 C10, "Loyd", LWB to SWB, 5.3, L83/6L80e, 4:11 Tru Trac, Air Ride, VA, DD, 20" Coys, 4 wheel disc, A quick LS swap turned into a 6 year frame off resto-mod.

06-02-2023, 09:19 PM	#22
RenoKeene Florida Edition Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Fruitland Park, FL Posts: 4,010	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ Interesting that the stock A/C setup from the factory on big block trucks actually worked...well sort of. __________________ 70 GMC Short Stepside "Rose"-An American Beauty: Factory 402/TH400, AM/FM, AC, Tilt, Tach, Buckets, Posi, PS, PB, 3-5 Drop, Complete Resto-Rod 67 C-20 Slant Back Wrecker "Mad Max" 67 C-10 Ratrod "Step-N-Wolf" 71 Serro Scotty Sportsman camper "Scotty" 97 LT1 Z28 "The Hornet" Link to more pics of "Rose" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...p?albumid=1684 Check out my "Cheap Tricks" thread and add to it if you can, lots of good info there. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=489394

06-03-2023, 10:50 AM	#24
dmjlambert Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Cypress, TX Posts: 3,572	Re: Gonna cost me more $$ There were a couple years where the copper/brass ones were not available or hard to find, but I see they are back and reproduced nowadays. About $450 to $900.

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