Judgement Day - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

buckola · 11-08-2002, 08:08 PM

Heres the deal. I'm a 52 year old that has decided to buy old instead of new. No more new $30000.00 trucks for me. i'm hooked on the classics...case closed. My good friend of many years thinks I'm nuts. He can't understand why Iwould do this when there is so much horse power available in the new cars.
The Goal. I want to kick his sorry ass. I want him to see nothing but my tailights and my bald spot through my back window!I've got until spring to prepare. He has a 2003 Yukon with the 5.3 /285 hp. Nice truck I must admit but it's goin down!
My truck is a stock 350/ th350 with 3:08"s Its not tired and runs as new. Consider the duals and headers as a given and I have vortec heads on order. Here's where you guys come in . With bolt on power only, (may want to return to stock one day)what should I do to make him bow at my feet and beg forgivness.. I want tire smoke, noise and still drive to work. You guys got the answer...lets toast this sob...oh wait he's my friend...lets teach him a lesson!

*Piston* · 11-08-2002, 08:36 PM

Definatly headers, with the vortecs you'll need a new intake designed for the 18degree head. HEI ignition if you dont already have that. How's the carburetor condition? Cooling fan? Suggest running electric fans or at minimal a fan clutch instead of direct drive. How's the cam? A cam matched with vortecs power curve will make alot of difference also. 2 1/4 exhaust system.

GEARS. 3:73's with a posi will make a large improvement.

Maybe even a small shot of the squeaze

I dont think you would get into much trouble with a small 100 shot of nitrous (might even jet it down to 75). With that, you should have no trouble "shinning the light" (tail light that is...) on your friend.

buckola · 11-08-2002, 08:47 PM

Thanks Piston,

Did'nt want to change the dif if I did'nt have to. That 30 mile trip to work would kill with 3:73's. i'd like to keep the quadrajet if possible but replace the intake of course . Any suggestion for headers would be appreciated. "Squeeze" is good but my I can't help but thinking that..well... it's cheating ...no offence intended.
Can't help its an age thing. I'll probably get over that after I get my doors blown off a few times. Keep the ideas coming!

crazy longhorn · 11-08-2002, 09:41 PM

You will need the the lower gears to make that heavy truck "dance".......you might think about 3.73s with a 700r4 combo. the low gears, & the lower 1st in the trans will get you out of the hole, & the OD will let you cruise

Longhorn Man · 11-08-2002, 09:41 PM

I pretty much agree with alot that was just said...
I'd keep the 3.07 gears, (3.08 was a car gear) and slap the vortecs on there. ThenI would do a small cam upgrade, nothing wild, just a good low end torque RV grind. A set of Hooker super comps are pretty dang nice IMO...I love mine. If your carb is original, I would have it rebuilt, but quads are actually a decent carb if in good shape. THe small primaries get you good MPG, and the huge secondaries will help put your bald spot in his face when you romp on the loud pedal. A good set of free flowing pipes and muflers are a must also.
I agree that the blue bottle is not needed.
Honestly, i think this set up will have you kickin his tail.
On the "why drive an old truck" thing...let him know how much class your rig has, and how his truck is nothing but a monochrome cookie cutter truck...just like the one before it, and the one after it.

Eddie H. · 11-08-2002, 10:45 PM

That shouldn't be too hard to do.
I have a 99 Yukon with 3.73 gears and the 255 horse vortec 350. It runs pretty strong for a stock vehicle, but my old 69 GMC will still run off and hide from it. All I'm running in it is the stock 3.07 rear axle and a mildly modified small block 400.
Put on a decent set of heads, headers, and a mild cam, and your 350 should be more than enough to SPANK him pretty good.

Blue_71 · 11-08-2002, 10:56 PM

um well it dont take to much, my truck supposedly has 320 HP and 370 torque..
350 bored 30, flat tops, 487 heads, headers, weiand aluminum intake, holley 4175 (quad replacement, same big back barrels longhornmail mentioned) RV cam.. nothing special, and in total i have maybe $500 in it after buying it for $300 from a board member

mikep · 11-08-2002, 11:50 PM

OK I'm not going to be the most popular guy for saying this but unless you change gears and go a little more radical on the cam the Yukon is going to trounce you. Something you need to remember is that the yukon has a pretty sophisticated fuel and spark management system and that 285 HP is SAE Net horsepower . That probably translates to closer to 350 gross Horsepower at the flywheel without accesories. That gross HP number is what us hot rod guys like to quote all the time even though its a load of crap. On top of that hes running a numerically higher gear ratio with an overdrive transmission. You can beat him but its not a matter of simple bolt ons. Those gears will kill your chances. Even if you switch to a more agressive cam you are going to be handicapped by the tall truck tires and hi gears since a more agressive cam will put your power band in an area where you are lumbering to get to by which time your buddy has already blown your doors off . Question is...How much do you want to spend ?

My suggestions

Vortec heads

3.54-4.10 gears . Also in the ideal world with a gear vendors overdrive or a 700R4 or similar overdrive tranny to get the fuel consumption back down to reasonable levels.

cam in the 215-220 @.050" duration range with around .460" lift . Something in the 268 or 272 comp cams range.

a decent dual plane hi volume intake

1 3/4 inch primary headers

holley or edelbrock 750 carb. It wont match the overall performance of the EFI but with the other mods you should get into the 320-350 HP range where he is at and with the more agressive gearing you should be able to get past him . With the 3.08 gears I dont think you'll beat him short of installing a big block. You cant argue with physics.

LeRoy · 11-09-2002, 02:12 AM

For starters you'll need some sort of posi unit or limited slip. Hooking up is where it's at. Toss the points and go with HEI if you haven't already, easy and cheap upgrade. Put the truck on a strict diet, do I hear fiberglass? Now to move the radiator, battery, and gas tank to the bed, how about a minor tubing to fit some nice 29x18.50x15 rear meats. Maybe I'm getting a little carried away. lol

bobs409 · 11-09-2002, 10:18 AM

I'll leave the technical stuff to the other guys here but wanted to say your not alone on the old vs. new. The newest vehicle I own is a '72! I dislike new vehciles with a passion! LOL

Your going to have alot more fun with that old truck for a hell of alot less money. And when your friends new truck has long since been recycled, I bet your oldie will still be hittin' the streets turning heads!

I wouldn't worry too much about who's truck is faster. Is that really important? I don't worry about such stuff. No matter how fast you go, someone else will be faster anyway. For me, it's the head turning power that matters.

Want to show up your friend? Ask him how many people turn their heads when he drives by. Or how many times he's been asked to sell his truck. And while his truck is depreciating on a rapid scale, yours only gains in value. And it's only gonna get better from here.

You and your old truck are the true winners!!!

Ok, im done now. Can you tell I like old Chevy's?

bowtie · 11-09-2002, 01:56 PM

wanna borrow the "brick"? Big Block lots of torque, 700r for getting there and back, 373 gears a good inbetween, 28" ET Streets will make your cruise legal and of course hook up, and if you want to blow the doors off every stock stang 150 shot will keep them from coming back for another can of whoopass, buy a 4 banger for the ride to work and on those nice days bring the circus wagon to bring out that big a** grin

bigvinnie · 11-09-2002, 02:35 PM

I agree with the others about the 3.73/700r4 combo... you'll have grumpy gears for quick getaways, plus hiway gears for cruising in the fast lane....combine that with some properly matched bolt-ons that have been suggested and your buddy will need a telescope to see your bald spot....

Your buddy has a lot to learn... he'll be outgunned AND outclassed...

Project1970 · 11-09-2002, 04:54 PM

Sounds like you're on the right path...

Definitely do a 3.73 or 4.11 rear with a 700R4. First is nice and low...with a good motor built around Vortecs, the gap between 1st and 2nd isn't a problem...and 4th with lockup is niiiiice on the freeway. Be forewarned, on stock Vortec heads you can't go more than about .450-.460" valve lift, because of the tiny stock springs...it's not a whole lot of money to get them machined out for real springs, though. And they are a bit lazy on the exhaust side, so give them as much help there as possible (headers and duals with a dual-pattern cam)...according to Desktop Dyno, a good exhaust is going to be an improvement in HP near what the heads themselves got me!!!

HEI is also a must for ANY truck...switching my '70 to it from points and no other changes got me nearly 2MPG and two tenths on the quarter! Crazy but true...

Hmm...quick question. Does Desktop Dyno put out numbers in SAE Net or Gross?

11-08-2002, 08:08 PM	#1
buckola 1 Wrench / 10 Knuckles Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Burlington Ontario Posts: 179	Judgement Day Heres the deal. I'm a 52 year old that has decided to buy old instead of new. No more new $30000.00 trucks for me. i'm hooked on the classics...case closed. My good friend of many years thinks I'm nuts. He can't understand why Iwould do this when there is so much horse power available in the new cars. The Goal. I want to kick his sorry ass. I want him to see nothing but my tailights and my bald spot through my back window!I've got until spring to prepare. He has a 2003 Yukon with the 5.3 /285 hp. Nice truck I must admit but it's goin down! My truck is a stock 350/ th350 with 3:08"s Its not tired and runs as new. Consider the duals and headers as a given and I have vortec heads on order. Here's where you guys come in . With bolt on power only, (may want to return to stock one day)what should I do to make him bow at my feet and beg forgivness.. I want tire smoke, noise and still drive to work. You guys got the answer...lets toast this sob...oh wait he's my friend...lets teach him a lesson! __________________ 1970 GMC Custom Vortec Heads, Edelbrock Performer Intake, Crane 272 Energizer, Hedman Full Length HTC Headers 2006 Dodge Charger SRT8. 1/4 mile 13.3 1973 Z1 900 Kawasaki ( all original)

11-08-2002, 08:47 PM	#3
buckola 1 Wrench / 10 Knuckles Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Burlington Ontario Posts: 179	Thanks Piston, Did'nt want to change the dif if I did'nt have to. That 30 mile trip to work would kill with 3:73's. i'd like to keep the quadrajet if possible but replace the intake of course . Any suggestion for headers would be appreciated. "Squeeze" is good but my I can't help but thinking that..well... it's cheating ...no offence intended. Can't help its an age thing. I'll probably get over that after I get my doors blown off a few times. Keep the ideas coming! __________________ 1970 GMC Custom Vortec Heads, Edelbrock Performer Intake, Crane 272 Energizer, Hedman Full Length HTC Headers 2006 Dodge Charger SRT8. 1/4 mile 13.3 1973 Z1 900 Kawasaki ( all original)

11-08-2002, 09:41 PM	#4
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,403	You will need the the lower gears to make that heavy truck "dance".......you might think about 3.73s with a 700r4 combo. the low gears, & the lower 1st in the trans will get you out of the hole, & the OD will let you cruise __________________ 69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears....

11-08-2002, 10:45 PM	#6
Eddie H. Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Paradise TX USA Posts: 1,200	That shouldn't be too hard to do. I have a 99 Yukon with 3.73 gears and the 255 horse vortec 350. It runs pretty strong for a stock vehicle, but my old 69 GMC will still run off and hide from it. All I'm running in it is the stock 3.07 rear axle and a mildly modified small block 400. Put on a decent set of heads, headers, and a mild cam, and your 350 should be more than enough to SPANK him pretty good. __________________ "Negative people always seem to have a problem for every solution"

11-08-2002, 11:50 PM	#8
mikep Used to have a truck Join Date: May 2002 Location: port orchard WA Posts: 1,552	OK I'm not going to be the most popular guy for saying this but unless you change gears and go a little more radical on the cam the Yukon is going to trounce you. Something you need to remember is that the yukon has a pretty sophisticated fuel and spark management system and that 285 HP is SAE Net horsepower . That probably translates to closer to 350 gross Horsepower at the flywheel without accesories. That gross HP number is what us hot rod guys like to quote all the time even though its a load of crap. On top of that hes running a numerically higher gear ratio with an overdrive transmission. You can beat him but its not a matter of simple bolt ons. Those gears will kill your chances. Even if you switch to a more agressive cam you are going to be handicapped by the tall truck tires and hi gears since a more agressive cam will put your power band in an area where you are lumbering to get to by which time your buddy has already blown your doors off . Question is...How much do you want to spend ? My suggestions Vortec heads 3.54-4.10 gears . Also in the ideal world with a gear vendors overdrive or a 700R4 or similar overdrive tranny to get the fuel consumption back down to reasonable levels. cam in the 215-220 @.050" duration range with around .460" lift . Something in the 268 or 272 comp cams range. a decent dual plane hi volume intake 1 3/4 inch primary headers holley or edelbrock 750 carb. It wont match the overall performance of the EFI but with the other mods you should get into the 320-350 HP range where he is at and with the more agressive gearing you should be able to get past him . With the 3.08 gears I dont think you'll beat him short of installing a big block. You cant argue with physics. __________________ No truck :-( Last edited by mikep; 11-09-2002 at 01:42 AM.

11-08-2002, 08:36 PM	#2
Piston Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 2,301	Definatly headers, with the vortecs you'll need a new intake designed for the 18degree head. HEI ignition if you dont already have that. How's the carburetor condition? Cooling fan? Suggest running electric fans or at minimal a fan clutch instead of direct drive. How's the cam? A cam matched with vortecs power curve will make alot of difference also. 2 1/4 exhaust system. GEARS. 3:73's with a posi will make a large improvement. Maybe even a small shot of the squeaze I dont think you would get into much trouble with a small 100 shot of nitrous (might even jet it down to 75). With that, you should have no trouble "shinning the light" (tail light that is...) on your friend.

11-08-2002, 09:41 PM	#5
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	I pretty much agree with alot that was just said... I'd keep the 3.07 gears, (3.08 was a car gear) and slap the vortecs on there. ThenI would do a small cam upgrade, nothing wild, just a good low end torque RV grind. A set of Hooker super comps are pretty dang nice IMO...I love mine. If your carb is original, I would have it rebuilt, but quads are actually a decent carb if in good shape. THe small primaries get you good MPG, and the huge secondaries will help put your bald spot in his face when you romp on the loud pedal. A good set of free flowing pipes and muflers are a must also. I agree that the blue bottle is not needed. Honestly, i think this set up will have you kickin his tail. On the "why drive an old truck" thing...let him know how much class your rig has, and how his truck is nothing but a monochrome cookie cutter truck...just like the one before it, and the one after it.

11-09-2002, 02:12 AM	#9
LeRoy Registered truck nut Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Mt. Vernon, Washington, USA Posts: 1,584	For starters you'll need some sort of posi unit or limited slip. Hooking up is where it's at. Toss the points and go with HEI if you haven't already, easy and cheap upgrade. Put the truck on a strict diet, do I hear fiberglass? Now to move the radiator, battery, and gas tank to the bed, how about a minor tubing to fit some nice 29x18.50x15 rear meats. Maybe I'm getting a little carried away. lol __________________ MOUNT VERNON, WASH. STATE Need a part? Just PM me

11-09-2002, 10:18 AM	#10
bobs409 1969 Custom 30 wrecker Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Pottsville, Pa Posts: 2,611	I'll leave the technical stuff to the other guys here but wanted to say your not alone on the old vs. new. The newest vehicle I own is a '72! I dislike new vehciles with a passion! LOL Your going to have alot more fun with that old truck for a hell of alot less money. And when your friends new truck has long since been recycled, I bet your oldie will still be hittin' the streets turning heads! I wouldn't worry too much about who's truck is faster. Is that really important? I don't worry about such stuff. No matter how fast you go, someone else will be faster anyway. For me, it's the head turning power that matters. Want to show up your friend? Ask him how many people turn their heads when he drives by. Or how many times he's been asked to sell his truck. And while his truck is depreciating on a rapid scale, yours only gains in value. And it's only gonna get better from here. You and your old truck are the true winners!!! Ok, im done now. Can you tell I like old Chevy's? __________________ Bob 63 Impala 283/PG/3.36 (under restoration) 66 Impala 327/PG/3.36 66 Chevelle SS 409/M22/3.55 69 Chevelle 307/PG/3.08 (future restoration) 69 C10 short stepside 454/TH350/3.73 69 Custom 30 tow truck 350/4 spd/4.10 (resto done, CRUISIN TIME!) 71 Cheyenne 20 fleetside 350/4 spd/4.10 71 Chevelle 6/PG/3.08 72 Chevelle 454/M21/4.10

11-09-2002, 01:56 PM	#11
bowtie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 1,050	big block wanna borrow the "brick"? Big Block lots of torque, 700r for getting there and back, 373 gears a good inbetween, 28" ET Streets will make your cruise legal and of course hook up, and if you want to blow the doors off every stock stang 150 shot will keep them from coming back for another can of whoopass, buy a 4 banger for the ride to work and on those nice days bring the circus wagon to bring out that big a** grin __________________ ~70 GMCprostreet swb 396/700r NOS 575 hp "the Brick" ~72 chev swb w/68 front clip "GM Millenium corvette yellow" I use and accept Paypal

11-09-2002, 02:35 PM	#12
bigvinnie Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: escondido, ca 92026 Posts: 1,222	I agree with the others about the 3.73/700r4 combo... you'll have grumpy gears for quick getaways, plus hiway gears for cruising in the fast lane....combine that with some properly matched bolt-ons that have been suggested and your buddy will need a telescope to see your bald spot.... Your buddy has a lot to learn... he'll be outgunned AND outclassed... __________________ '72 short step, 350, 700R4, tilt, ps, pdb, a/c, lowered coils, etc., other work in progress... San Diego, CA 72 Stepside Project Last edited by bigvinnie; 11-09-2002 at 02:41 PM.

11-09-2002, 04:54 PM	#13
Project1970 14.1 @ 96MPH Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 2,811	Sounds like you're on the right path... Definitely do a 3.73 or 4.11 rear with a 700R4. First is nice and low...with a good motor built around Vortecs, the gap between 1st and 2nd isn't a problem...and 4th with lockup is niiiiice on the freeway. Be forewarned, on stock Vortec heads you can't go more than about .450-.460" valve lift, because of the tiny stock springs...it's not a whole lot of money to get them machined out for real springs, though. And they are a bit lazy on the exhaust side, so give them as much help there as possible (headers and duals with a dual-pattern cam)...according to Desktop Dyno, a good exhaust is going to be an improvement in HP near what the heads themselves got me!!! HEI is also a must for ANY truck...switching my '70 to it from points and no other changes got me nearly 2MPG and two tenths on the quarter! Crazy but true... Hmm...quick question. Does Desktop Dyno put out numbers in SAE Net or Gross? __________________ Project1970 - LS1 Swap Complete!



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