Vintage air A/C installation - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Mike Culpepper · 07-23-2003, 08:44 AM

ddsmith did a great job detailing the Old Air install tips and in the thread that prompted his post below, several members thought it would be helpful to have side by side comparison of Vintage Air (VA) vs. Old Air(OA). I hope it will be helpful.
First off I have never seen an OA system in person so comparisons are subjective. Second, my truck was an A.C cab, so I didn't have to cut holes for the side or center vents.
My VA unit is a "Sure Fit unit" -they make several other units-I didn't investigate any of these.
On the surface both units appear to be very similar, both apparently use Sanderson compressors which in my research, most thought these were very effecient and quality compressors. The inside units both give a cleaner look to the inside cab and both take some glovebox room vs. the original, it looks like the VA takes more glovebox room away. The drier and condensers appear very similar. Both units use 100% recirculated air, and VA recommends sealing up all areas where hot air could come in.
Both units use the original ac control panel, there are no modifications needed to the controller(ddsmith noted that OA required a small modification to the controller). My VA unit came with everything you need except freon(you can get R-12 or 134a units), and a belt. I got the unit about 10-12 days after I ordered it and it was packed VERY well.
I thought the instructions were pretty good, but still had alot of questions. The good news is VA has an excellent customer service dept.
Here are a few pics, then I'll give some more info.

Mike Culpepper · 07-23-2003, 08:48 AM

SORRY I'm not sure how to post several pics in one post=bear with me.

Mike Culpepper · 07-23-2003, 08:51 AM

another

Mike Culpepper · 07-23-2003, 08:53 AM

Mo'

Mike Culpepper · 07-23-2003, 09:08 AM

Drier/condenser

Mike Culpepper · 07-23-2003, 10:16 AM

I don't have the time to do a blow by blow account of how to install the VA system, ddsmith put ALOT of time in his excellent discription. I will try to give ya'll some things learned, and any shortcommings of the VA install.
I agree with ddsmith, that I would take everything out of the inside of the truck that you can, before the unit comes. If the truck is not driven daily, gut all the a/c stuff, if you can. I didn't do ALL of it coz I drive my truck daily. Next, if you're thinking about replacing the dash pad, or stock speaker, or anything else behind the dash, NOW is a GOOD time to do that coz even though these units are compact, it's still tight behind the dash, especially after the ducts are in. I remove the A/C controller too and made sure it was in good shape(VA will sell you a new one for $130 if needed). In order to remove the old evaporator and blower you'll need to unbolt the passenger side hood hinge and raise it up a few inches(support the hood with a 1x3 or simialr), and will need to drop the pass. side inner fender in the back a little so you can get to the mounting bolt down there and for the blower housing to clear. I ended up removing my hood, I think it was easer to get to the firewall area, didn't have to worry about knocking the support out and getting knocked on the head by the hood and there is alot of stuff you'll need to do at the firewall later on.
If you have a non A/C truck, I THINK you'll probably need to remove the front bumper and grill coz you'll have to drill a big hole in the rad support for the hard lines from the drier/condenser. I had to tilt the grill out as far as I could and was able to get the hard lines to pass through. I had to drill two of the holes for the lower condenser mounting bolts and I hod to use a 90 degree drill chuck, even with the grill tilted(I bought a cheap one at Harbor Freight).
The compressor mounting brackets are very well machined and fit prefectly( I should have painted them before I installed).
The only modification I had to make to the firewall was drilling another hole for the rear mounting bracket for the inside unit. Using the existing hole, the hard line and suction line at the firewall didn't line up right , so I just drilled a hole a little lower and to one side,pretty easy. The unit is designed to use existing firewall holes but like the dealer said, if it don't fit, you make it fit(duh).
THe instructions tell you to "bench test" the unit before you install it, and I almost skipped it, but I would do it coz even though it's unlikely there will be a problem, it's better to make sure BEFORE you put the evaporator unit in. It was easy to do.
The VA instructions call for removing the pass. side kick panel door and they provide an oval panel that you silicone and screw in place to block off any air from entering the cab. In retrospect, I'm not sure that is a good idea coz it is gona be hard to access this area t clean out the 2 pounds of leaves and cr#p that accumulates in the fender here. Oh well, I'll probably take this panel off periodically anyway to clean this area.
Also, if you need to replace the insulation either on the inside firewall or the floorboards, I'd do it before the install.
The wiring harness is pretty straight foreward and replaces all of the original harness.
In general I feel the install was pretty easy with few significant modifications. The unit is well designed and appears to be very good quality. Even the plastic pieces are very sturdy and beefy.
Finally just a few suggestions. Shop around! Most of the dealers I talked to in Houston were asking $1000-1200, but found Steves AUto custom Air and paid $950 (total-either no tax or that included tax)plus $50 for the purge and freon fill. I think a dealer that installs the units can be a big help if you have questions. One or two of the dealers that didn't install the units semmed to not know as much about the units. You can order the hoses pre cut and crimped but if you use a dealer (or know someone that has the crimping tools), you can order them un cut-you get longer hoses and this will give you more leeway on how the hoses are routed-I'm glad I did the latter.
Performance: It blows cold and hard! I still have a couple of small holes in the firewall and I can't see that it makes alot of difference. Most of the time here in Houston 90 deg. plus with 90% humidity most of the time I rarely run the blower on high except for the first 10 minutes or so. Alot of people say the blower is noisy on high. I guess it is but not as noisy as it is with my windows down, wind blowing, windows rattling going over bumps etc......You dont hav much glovebox space(I haven't put mine in yet---I'm a procrastinator).

If you purge and fill the system yourself, or have someone do it for you make SURE they put TWO cans of 134a in and that's it!!!!! My dealer said that if you treat the VA system like a OEM A/C and use pressure gauges to guide how much freon you put in it you'll end up putting too much in and will screw things up!!!!
I spent alot of time talking to this guy and trusted what he said.

I'm sure I've left out something important, and I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone has.
I think you'll be thrilled with either the VA or OA systems, as they both seem to be quality systems.
Oh yea I forgot, the VA comes with a 3 year warranty and option to buy 1 or 2 yeay extended warranty.
Mike

sub4rvr · 08-02-2003, 12:29 PM

ok, this might be a stupid question, but does it come with a new heater core also? My heater and a/c are both shot on my truck and I'm think I'm going to go this route. Do you know how this unit would work in a sub with rear air? I'm guessing I would just have to add in the " T's " for the rear unit.
Dave.

ddsmith · 08-02-2003, 05:42 PM

The Old Air and the Vintage Air units have the heater core as part of the unit. Your old one gets tossed.

Dano69c10 · 04-14-2006, 08:51 PM

To Mike Culpepper or anyone else who has done this install;
I am doing a VA installation. Before I start I have a few questions.
1) how and where did you mount the two relays?
2) how does one evacuate the system, how many lbs of vacuum are needed etc.?
3) how big are the the cans of freon (how many ounces etc.)?
4) how long is the heater hose from the VA unit (firewall) to the heater hose cutoff valve.
thanx in advance
Dano

Mike Culpepper · 04-17-2006, 09:52 AM

Dano,
It's been a while since I did my install, which relays are you talking about? If it's the ones under the dash, I don't remember exactly where I put them, but I can look tonight.
I had a VA dealer purge my system, so I'm not sure of the details, just used one of the red little A/C vaccuum pumps-think harbor freight even sells them.
My dealer said to add 2 cans no more- no less(normal small size of freon can), not sure of the volume--maybe 8-12 ounces????.
I ordered the hoses (suction and discharge)without specifing a length, that way it gave me more leeway to route the hoses the way I wanted.m Note you have to have someone that can crimp the hoses for you (any A/C guy MAY be able to do this-not sure). As for the heater hoses I think that it is approx. 18" from the firewall to the wheel well where I put the hot water shut off vlave. I don't remember if this was a pre-determined length, or if I just put it where it was convienient?????
Let me know if I can take any pics that would help.
Mike

Dano69c10 · 04-17-2006, 12:31 PM

Thanx for responding:

Yes, the relays under the dash. Any more pics of the wiring under the dash and under the hood would be cool. Also specifically how did you "bench test" the unit? (the instructions are a little vague)

Dano

Mike Culpepper · 04-17-2006, 02:34 PM

On the bench test, I just used the battery from my truck, ran a "hot wire from the + side of the battery to the appropriate spot on the blower switch on the A/C controller, and then grounded the unit and neg side of the battery--just can't remember exactly how I grounded it - I was just winging it. I even hooked up the controller cables to the A/C controller and made sure the different diverter doors worked. My dealer said he's only seen one or two out of hundreds have a problem, but you want to know BEFORE you put the thing in.
I'll need a little time to try and get pics, but I'll do my best.
Mike

Mike Culpepper · 04-20-2006, 09:11 AM

Dano,
I looked under the dash last night and I remember now what I did with the relays. I couldn't find an easy spot to mount them either, so I "temporarily" attached them both to the a/c controller with wire ties. I was going to find a permanent place to mount them later..........2 1/2 years later and they are still wire-tied Oh, well!
I took some pics, but turns out they are just like the ones posted above. If you'll let me know if there is a specific part I can get a pic of, I will shoot it for 'ya.
Mike

07-23-2003, 08:44 AM	#1
Mike Culpepper Red Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Llano... Texas Hill Country Posts: 448	Vintage air A/C installation ddsmith did a great job detailing the Old Air install tips and in the thread that prompted his post below, several members thought it would be helpful to have side by side comparison of Vintage Air (VA) vs. Old Air(OA). I hope it will be helpful. First off I have never seen an OA system in person so comparisons are subjective. Second, my truck was an A.C cab, so I didn't have to cut holes for the side or center vents. My VA unit is a "Sure Fit unit" -they make several other units-I didn't investigate any of these. On the surface both units appear to be very similar, both apparently use Sanderson compressors which in my research, most thought these were very effecient and quality compressors. The inside units both give a cleaner look to the inside cab and both take some glovebox room vs. the original, it looks like the VA takes more glovebox room away. The drier and condensers appear very similar. Both units use 100% recirculated air, and VA recommends sealing up all areas where hot air could come in. Both units use the original ac control panel, there are no modifications needed to the controller(ddsmith noted that OA required a small modification to the controller). My VA unit came with everything you need except freon(you can get R-12 or 134a units), and a belt. I got the unit about 10-12 days after I ordered it and it was packed VERY well. I thought the instructions were pretty good, but still had alot of questions. The good news is VA has an excellent customer service dept. Here are a few pics, then I'll give some more info. Attached Images __________________ '72 Cheyenne LWB 350/350 "The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time." - Catfish Hunter (commenting on why he was not able to pitch another perfect game). Last edited by Mike Culpepper; 07-23-2003 at 08:47 AM.

07-23-2003, 08:48 AM	#2
Mike Culpepper Red Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Llano... Texas Hill Country Posts: 448	SORRY I'm not sure how to post several pics in one post=bear with me. Attached Images __________________ '72 Cheyenne LWB 350/350 "The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time." - Catfish Hunter (commenting on why he was not able to pitch another perfect game).

07-23-2003, 08:51 AM	#3
Mike Culpepper Red Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Llano... Texas Hill Country Posts: 448	another Attached Images __________________ '72 Cheyenne LWB 350/350 "The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time." - Catfish Hunter (commenting on why he was not able to pitch another perfect game).

07-23-2003, 08:53 AM	#4
Mike Culpepper Red Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Llano... Texas Hill Country Posts: 448	Mo' Attached Images __________________ '72 Cheyenne LWB 350/350 "The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time." - Catfish Hunter (commenting on why he was not able to pitch another perfect game).

07-23-2003, 09:08 AM	#5
Mike Culpepper Red Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Llano... Texas Hill Country Posts: 448	Drier/condenser Attached Images __________________ '72 Cheyenne LWB 350/350 "The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time." - Catfish Hunter (commenting on why he was not able to pitch another perfect game).

07-23-2003, 10:16 AM	#6
Mike Culpepper Red Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Llano... Texas Hill Country Posts: 448	I don't have the time to do a blow by blow account of how to install the VA system, ddsmith put ALOT of time in his excellent discription. I will try to give ya'll some things learned, and any shortcommings of the VA install. I agree with ddsmith, that I would take everything out of the inside of the truck that you can, before the unit comes. If the truck is not driven daily, gut all the a/c stuff, if you can. I didn't do ALL of it coz I drive my truck daily. Next, if you're thinking about replacing the dash pad, or stock speaker, or anything else behind the dash, NOW is a GOOD time to do that coz even though these units are compact, it's still tight behind the dash, especially after the ducts are in. I remove the A/C controller too and made sure it was in good shape(VA will sell you a new one for $130 if needed). In order to remove the old evaporator and blower you'll need to unbolt the passenger side hood hinge and raise it up a few inches(support the hood with a 1x3 or simialr), and will need to drop the pass. side inner fender in the back a little so you can get to the mounting bolt down there and for the blower housing to clear. I ended up removing my hood, I think it was easer to get to the firewall area, didn't have to worry about knocking the support out and getting knocked on the head by the hood and there is alot of stuff you'll need to do at the firewall later on. If you have a non A/C truck, I THINK you'll probably need to remove the front bumper and grill coz you'll have to drill a big hole in the rad support for the hard lines from the drier/condenser. I had to tilt the grill out as far as I could and was able to get the hard lines to pass through. I had to drill two of the holes for the lower condenser mounting bolts and I hod to use a 90 degree drill chuck, even with the grill tilted(I bought a cheap one at Harbor Freight). The compressor mounting brackets are very well machined and fit prefectly( I should have painted them before I installed). The only modification I had to make to the firewall was drilling another hole for the rear mounting bracket for the inside unit. Using the existing hole, the hard line and suction line at the firewall didn't line up right , so I just drilled a hole a little lower and to one side,pretty easy. The unit is designed to use existing firewall holes but like the dealer said, if it don't fit, you make it fit(duh). THe instructions tell you to "bench test" the unit before you install it, and I almost skipped it, but I would do it coz even though it's unlikely there will be a problem, it's better to make sure BEFORE you put the evaporator unit in. It was easy to do. The VA instructions call for removing the pass. side kick panel door and they provide an oval panel that you silicone and screw in place to block off any air from entering the cab. In retrospect, I'm not sure that is a good idea coz it is gona be hard to access this area t clean out the 2 pounds of leaves and cr#p that accumulates in the fender here. Oh well, I'll probably take this panel off periodically anyway to clean this area. Also, if you need to replace the insulation either on the inside firewall or the floorboards, I'd do it before the install. The wiring harness is pretty straight foreward and replaces all of the original harness. In general I feel the install was pretty easy with few significant modifications. The unit is well designed and appears to be very good quality. Even the plastic pieces are very sturdy and beefy. Finally just a few suggestions. Shop around! Most of the dealers I talked to in Houston were asking $1000-1200, but found Steves AUto custom Air and paid $950 (total-either no tax or that included tax)plus $50 for the purge and freon fill. I think a dealer that installs the units can be a big help if you have questions. One or two of the dealers that didn't install the units semmed to not know as much about the units. You can order the hoses pre cut and crimped but if you use a dealer (or know someone that has the crimping tools), you can order them un cut-you get longer hoses and this will give you more leeway on how the hoses are routed-I'm glad I did the latter. Performance: It blows cold and hard! I still have a couple of small holes in the firewall and I can't see that it makes alot of difference. Most of the time here in Houston 90 deg. plus with 90% humidity most of the time I rarely run the blower on high except for the first 10 minutes or so. Alot of people say the blower is noisy on high. I guess it is but not as noisy as it is with my windows down, wind blowing, windows rattling going over bumps etc......You dont hav much glovebox space(I haven't put mine in yet---I'm a procrastinator). If you purge and fill the system yourself, or have someone do it for you make SURE they put TWO cans of 134a in and that's it!!!!! My dealer said that if you treat the VA system like a OEM A/C and use pressure gauges to guide how much freon you put in it you'll end up putting too much in and will screw things up!!!! I spent alot of time talking to this guy and trusted what he said. I'm sure I've left out something important, and I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone has. I think you'll be thrilled with either the VA or OA systems, as they both seem to be quality systems. Oh yea I forgot, the VA comes with a 3 year warranty and option to buy 1 or 2 yeay extended warranty. Mike __________________ '72 Cheyenne LWB 350/350 "The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time." - Catfish Hunter (commenting on why he was not able to pitch another perfect game).

08-02-2003, 12:29 PM	#7
sub4rvr Registered User Join Date: May 2000 Location: Palm Springs, Ca. Posts: 574	ok, this might be a stupid question, but does it come with a new heater core also? My heater and a/c are both shot on my truck and I'm think I'm going to go this route. Do you know how this unit would work in a sub with rear air? I'm guessing I would just have to add in the " T's " for the rear unit. Dave. __________________ 72 C10 Suburban 90 S10 57 F100 (2) 67 Mustang (2) 69 Torino GT 00 Mustang GT Conv.

08-02-2003, 05:42 PM	#8
ddsmith Glowing since 1978 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lusby,MD,USA Posts: 532	The Old Air and the Vintage Air units have the heater core as part of the unit. Your old one gets tossed. __________________ 66 Chevy C30 Stakebody Dump, PS,PB, 327cu in 71 Corvette Coupe 454 4 speed 69 Chevy C20 Custom Camper

04-14-2006, 08:51 PM	#9
Dano69c10 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Kali Posts: 2,427	Re: Vintage air A/C installation To Mike Culpepper or anyone else who has done this install; I am doing a VA installation. Before I start I have a few questions. 1) how and where did you mount the two relays? 2) how does one evacuate the system, how many lbs of vacuum are needed etc.? 3) how big are the the cans of freon (how many ounces etc.)? 4) how long is the heater hose from the VA unit (firewall) to the heater hose cutoff valve. thanx in advance Dano __________________ '69 Fleet It ain't yours, if you didn't build it! Last edited by Dano69c10; 04-15-2006 at 10:54 AM.

04-17-2006, 09:52 AM	#10
Mike Culpepper Red Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Llano... Texas Hill Country Posts: 448	Re: Vintage air A/C installation Dano, It's been a while since I did my install, which relays are you talking about? If it's the ones under the dash, I don't remember exactly where I put them, but I can look tonight. I had a VA dealer purge my system, so I'm not sure of the details, just used one of the red little A/C vaccuum pumps-think harbor freight even sells them. My dealer said to add 2 cans no more- no less(normal small size of freon can), not sure of the volume--maybe 8-12 ounces????. I ordered the hoses (suction and discharge)without specifing a length, that way it gave me more leeway to route the hoses the way I wanted.m Note you have to have someone that can crimp the hoses for you (any A/C guy MAY be able to do this-not sure). As for the heater hoses I think that it is approx. 18" from the firewall to the wheel well where I put the hot water shut off vlave. I don't remember if this was a pre-determined length, or if I just put it where it was convienient????? Let me know if I can take any pics that would help. Mike __________________ '72 Cheyenne LWB 350/350 "The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time." - Catfish Hunter (commenting on why he was not able to pitch another perfect game).

04-17-2006, 12:31 PM	#11
Dano69c10 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Kali Posts: 2,427	Re: Vintage air A/C installation Thanx for responding: Yes, the relays under the dash. Any more pics of the wiring under the dash and under the hood would be cool. Also specifically how did you "bench test" the unit? (the instructions are a little vague) Dano __________________ '69 Fleet It ain't yours, if you didn't build it!

04-17-2006, 02:34 PM	#12
Mike Culpepper Red Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Llano... Texas Hill Country Posts: 448	Re: Vintage air A/C installation On the bench test, I just used the battery from my truck, ran a "hot wire from the + side of the battery to the appropriate spot on the blower switch on the A/C controller, and then grounded the unit and neg side of the battery--just can't remember exactly how I grounded it - I was just winging it. I even hooked up the controller cables to the A/C controller and made sure the different diverter doors worked. My dealer said he's only seen one or two out of hundreds have a problem, but you want to know BEFORE you put the thing in. I'll need a little time to try and get pics, but I'll do my best. Mike __________________ '72 Cheyenne LWB 350/350 "The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time." - Catfish Hunter (commenting on why he was not able to pitch another perfect game).

04-20-2006, 09:11 AM	#13
Mike Culpepper Red Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Llano... Texas Hill Country Posts: 448	Re: Vintage air A/C installation Dano, I looked under the dash last night and I remember now what I did with the relays. I couldn't find an easy spot to mount them either, so I "temporarily" attached them both to the a/c controller with wire ties. I was going to find a permanent place to mount them later..........2 1/2 years later and they are still wire-tied Oh, well! I took some pics, but turns out they are just like the ones posted above. If you'll let me know if there is a specific part I can get a pic of, I will shoot it for 'ya. Mike __________________ '72 Cheyenne LWB 350/350 "The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time." - Catfish Hunter (commenting on why he was not able to pitch another perfect game).



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