Newb Transmission Advice

[trailcarnage]

When I purchased my truck a couple of weeks ago, it was advertised as a 454 with 700R4 transmission. With my utter unfamiliarity with anything non-Toyota, I decided to do my own confirmation. After no avail trying to view the casting number I finally borrowed a snake camera. After a bit more messing around, I was able to get a good peek at it...14015445 which comes up as a 75-90 454 for Car & Truck. Good deal! As advertised.

Now onto the primary issue, the transmission slips terribly. I was considering having it rebuilt until I started reading about it's strength behind a BBC. I then stumbled across a posting for a Turbo 400 from a 63-64 Chevy 3/4 ton. Knowing that I am going for a cruiser and not a racer can I get some advice about an auto tyranny selection. Also know that I drive about 40 miles each way to work in the summer so mpg is a slight consideration.

[LongBox]

Whaddya mean by "a slight consideration?" What is the final drive ratio in your truck? If it is 3.73 or lower (hhigher number), you might very well need the OD geqr that you get in a 700R4. The 700R4 can be "built" to take the torque of the 454. If you go that route, everything will bolt right back up when you are finished. If you want the heft of the TH400, and the OD gear, you need some sort of 4L80 trans, but they have electronics, and I'm not sure how they would adapt to our trucks. Maybe someone else will chime in.

[100%Chevy]

You're gonna spend a lot of money making a 700-R4 hold up to a 454.It can be done though.
BTW,Turbo-400's were introduced in 1965 behind the 325hp,396(also new that year.It will hold up pretty good.
The best is the new 4L80 series transmissions.It holds up well and has overdrive for better fuel mileage.
I have all these and still prefer the Th-400.At this point in time the 400 is good enough and much cheaper if repairs are needed.
There are other choices too, but not as popular.
Mike./

[trailcarnage]

Originally Posted by 100%Chevy

You're gonna spend a lot of money making a 700-R4 hold up to a 454.It can be done though.
BTW,Turbo-400's were introduced in 1965 behind the 325hp,396(also new that year.It will hold up pretty good.
The best is the new 4L80 series transmissions.It holds up well and has overdrive for better fuel mileage.
I have all these and still prefer the Th-400.At this point in time the 400 is good enough and much cheaper if repairs are needed.
There are other choices too, but not as popular.
Mike./

Here is a link to the 400 that I came across: http://up.craigslist.org/pts/5840472476.html It caught my eye based on the price. Unfortunately, I don't know enough to confirm that it is what he says other than the tag that says 400.

I have entertained the 4L80E just for the challenge of converting it to manual shift. It looks like it could be a fun project and equally fun to drive. I have to believe that one could be had for a reasonable price at a bone yard.

[100%Chevy]

Originally Posted by trailcarnage

Here is a link to the 400 that I came across: http://up.craigslist.org/pts/5840472476.html It caught my eye based on the price. Unfortunately, I don't know enough to confirm that it is what he says other than the tag that says 400.

I have entertained the 4L80E just for the challenge of converting it to manual shift. It looks like it could be a fun project and equally fun to drive. I have to believe that one could be had for a reasonable price at a bone yard.

This one may sound like a good deal,but never came in the trucks mentioned.He may have gotten it from one regardless.I don't see a torque converter mentioned either.Add more to the cost.Around here, $150.00 is for a rebuildable case.
Then,how do you know it's good?May need a rebuild too.More money.
I wouldn't buy one unless you can drive it beforehand!
$350.00 to $400.00 should buy a good usable th-400!
Mike.

[cdub2010]

Probably best to keep it the 700r4. Get it rebuilt with standard upgrades. Have the shop check the tv cable adjustment. If you change the trans you'll have driveshaft changes as well as a controller if you go for a 4l80e. It should be fine since your not racing or towing, besides with the lack of gas stations up near you Id keep the overdrive and add a second tank. Transmission that end up in the bed of the truck are pulled for a reason, vast majority are just cores.

Is the listing in Pelkie a junk yard. looks like a lot of vehicles on the property, seen ads before but never stopped.

[mud.man.rj]

I think the T350 and 700R4 are the same length, the 400 bolts up the same but believe it.s shorter so will have to modify drive shaft, if your not bagging it all the time I'm sure the 700 rebuilt would last a long time but as mentioned would need the tv cable adjusted properly when installed or the line pressure is low or high and trans won't last long.
Is the 454 modified or fairly stock, stock 454 is under 300hp normally anyway.

[trailcarnage]

Longbox,

Slight consideration means that have accepted the fact that I'm going to be filling frequently. Improved mpg would simply be a bonus.

I have no idea what rear diff ratio I am running. The truck is a 1970 longbox and has the original auto column so I am assuming is was running a small block if that is an indicator.

I have considered keeping the 700 for the lack of modification but am a bit set back by the cost of rebuild.

[davepl]

I had a built 200-4R live behind a ZZ502 with drag radials, and it was fine, but it was a $4000 transmission, so not exactly stock. So they can be made to live (the 200 is weaker than the 700 stock, but built tends to live longer than the 700) but out of the box they won't support a big-block for long.

Is it possible it was already strengthened up by the previous owner, or did it just come out of a junkyard, etc?

If the cause of the slip is the TV cable, it's probably already too late, but worth checking the adjustment on it. If it's wrong, the trans will slip and eat itself. It's not like an old kickdown cable, because on the 700 it regulates internal pressures too.

[trailcarnage]

Originally Posted by davepl

I had a built 200-4R live behind a ZZ502 with drag radials, and it was fine, but it was a $4000 transmission, so not exactly stock. So they can be made to live (the 200 is weaker than the 700 stock, but built tends to live longer than the 700) but out of the box they won't support a big-block for long.

Is it possible it was already strengthened up by the previous owner, or did it just come out of a junkyard, etc?

If the cause of the slip is the TV cable, it's probably already too late, but worth checking the adjustment on it. If it's wrong, the trans will slip and eat itself. It's not like an old kickdown cable, because on the 700 it regulates internal pressures too.

I was told that the transmission had been built by the fellow who built that truck about 15 years ago. I'm not sure what you mean by TV cable. The guy that I bought it from suggested that the kick down cable could be out of adjustment. The symptoms are that the shifter is very difficult to get in and out of park, finding reverse is near impossible and all of the gears are super close together on the column. If you don't hit reverse just right, you aren't going to move. If you don't hit drive just right it will slip under acceleration. Once you get up to 55 the truck shutters as if it is slipping although this could be one of the many other things that need to be fixed.

As far as a $4000 transmission is concerned, the wife would finally leave me. That's more than I paid for the truck.

[davepl]

If the 700R4 is anything like the 200-4R, it does NOT have a kickdown, it has a TV cable. They might look the same, but:

Kickdown - Just tells the trans when it's time to upshift
TV - Does kickdown PLUS it controls the throttle valve line pressures

So if it gets out of adjustment, it can burn up the trans. I'd get that set and adjusted before you drive it anywhere. Worst case "tighten" it so it gets pulled more, it's better to err on the side of too much rather than too little. If you have it too tight, it'll upshift late (hold gears longer than you want) but the pressures will be safe.

I'm not a transmission guy, so someone might be along shortly to correct my mistakes...

[Overdriven]

You mention finding it hard to find gears. Floor shifters have detents for each position and from a cursory search so do column shifters. What if anything the previous did to modify the detents on the column and adjust the linkage is likely your problem there. If the truck has floor shift the linkage might not be adjusted properly or they could've installed the wrong detent in an aftermarket shifter.

I'd figure out what the rear gears are before deciding on a transmission. You may not need overdrive with your gears and can go the more budget friendly route with a th400. If you do go overdrive I'd go with a 4l80e. They're fairly inexpensive from wrecking yards, just need the controller and that's not too bad as there's a couple sources. You can shift the 4l80e manually from the shifter, the controller is there because there's solenoids in there that need direction whether shifting manual or auto.

[trailcarnage]

Are both the TH400 and 4L80 direct bolt-ups to a 454? I read that the 4L80 may require a different flex plate. I'm more concerned about the bell housing pattern though.

[jocko]

You mentioned "going for a cruiser and not a racer" yet are worried about the 700R4 standing up behind a 454. Put it this way - if you had a blown and injected 1000 horse motor - the 700R4 would stand up just fine "for cruising". When someone tells you the 700R4 won't stand up behind a big block, that means they are, indeed, racing. And that is a true statement - it won't, in stock form, live a long life behind a big block if you're doing a burnout from every stop light. If you drive it as a cruiser as stated - no HARD(!!) acceleration from a dead stop - it'll be just fine. If it's not shifting correctly, it needs to be rebuilt anyway - in that case, it's worth spending a little extra to beef it up. A TH400 in stock form is generally more durable than a stock 700R4. Also - 63-64's did not have TH400s. It may have come out of a 63-64, but it wasn't born there. Anyway, 65-ish was the first year, and they weren't as sturdy as later TH400s - something to do with a center support bearing or something like that - sorry, don't recall the correct term. All I know is that when I got the TH400 in my 65 Impala rebuilt - strengthening this early TH400 semi-weak link was the first thing my savvy ol trans builder recommended. Bottom line - recommend rebuilding the 700R4 you have, strengthen it in the process, and enjoy the o/d gearing as you cruise.

VERY good excerpt from a VERY good o/d trans swap article in Super Chevy:

"The TH700 is equipped with a removable tailshaft housing that has varied in length for different vehicles over different years. The tailshaft housing to look for if you’re replacing an original TH400 trans came stock on mid-’80s police cars (Caprice) and the early Impala SS. This tailshaft housing puts the mounting pad almost in line with the original TH400 pad and usually requires only slight elongation of the mounting holes to fit. If you’re replacing a TH350 trans, you can relocate the factory crossmember mounting holes rearward approximately 1½ inches or swap in an original TH400 crossmember.

For either swap, the driveshaft will have to be shortened by as much as 3¾ inches. We recommend mocking up your installation with the TH700-R4 trans in place and then taking measurements to determine how long your new driveshaft will need to be before having it cut. A TH350/PG slip-yoke will work with the TH700-R4 trans, but a TH400’s will not. The TH700 uses a unique torque converter that will bolt right up to a TH350’s flexplate.

TH200-4R Swap

The TH200-4R has been available almost as long as the TH700-R4 but is unanimously overlooked as a performance transmission option. Truth is, the TH200-4R is just as capable and actually easier to swap in than a TH700-R4. It is ideal if you’re replacing a TH350 or Powerglide trans because a TH200-4R will practically install itself into a TH350/Powerglide–equipped car. You may run into transmission oil-pan interference problems when bolting the TH200-4R into early Camaros with the stock TH400 crossmember. The easiest cure is to fabricate a steel or aluminum spacer to raise the back of the trans and slip the spacer in between the mount and the transmission to give it the necessary clearance (see photo). Also, the TH200 uses a torque converter with the smaller TH350 bolt circle. You may have to switch to a dual-pattern flexplate if your car came equipped with the TH400 trans."

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/461...on-swap-guide/

[trailcarnage]

Originally Posted by cdub2010

Probably best to keep it the 700r4. Get it rebuilt with standard upgrades. Have the shop check the tv cable adjustment. If you change the trans you'll have driveshaft changes as well as a controller if you go for a 4l80e. It should be fine since your not racing or towing, besides with the lack of gas stations up near you Id keep the overdrive and add a second tank. Transmission that end up in the bed of the truck are pulled for a reason, vast majority are just cores.

Is the listing in Pelkie a junk yard. looks like a lot of vehicles on the property, seen ads before but never stopped.

I did a little research about how to properly install a TV cable. This one was not. It is mounted in a straight line pull to the throttle linkage vs being mounted on a cam. I has been run like this for many years so I an sure that there is no way to improve the adjustment.

Yes, the place in Pelkie is a junk yard. Well, it's an old farm occupied by an old fellow that collects cars and parts them out. I've purchased some bits from him over the years and have found him to be good to work with.

X2 one the second tank! It's 3-5 gallons with this pig between fuel stations around here.

[Rickysnickers]

Check out Bowtie Overdriver, http://www.tvmadeez.com/ Depending on what carb you have, they have kits that will most likely correct TV cable issues. I have one on my truck and it works well.

[trailcarnage]

After much deliberation and research, I have decided to switch over to a 4L80E. I am going to rewrite it to a FMVB. I plan to run a floor shifter which I am unsure whether I will make or buy.

[GASoline71]

4L80E will need a stand alone controller as they are electronically shifted. They cost a grip of cash on top of the cost of the tranny.

Gary

[trailcarnage]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

4L80E will need a stand alone controller as they are electronically shifted. They cost a grip of cash on top of the cost of the tranny.

Gary

My understand is that you can hot wire the shift solenoids to make the 4l80E into a full manual valve body as described below, correct?

4L80E DO IT YOURSELF MANUAL VALVE BODY




Here it is again for those of you that have emailed me.There was a type error in the original post.
TERMINALS PINOUT WIRES "A" AND "B" From the pressure manifold are connected together and connected to the ground side of "SHIFT SOLENOID A". TERMINAL PINOUT WIRE " C" from the pressure manifold is connected to the ground side of "SHIFT SOLENOID "B". 12 VOLTS is supplied to the PINK WIRE on the outside of the trans .This will power up the shift solenoids as well as the lock up solenoid.If you want to lock the converter you must run the BROWN WIRE on the outside of the trans thru a toggle switch to chassis ground.

[weq92f]

Moving to the 'e' tranny you will have issues also with your Odometer/Speedometer. That is, unless you're running a modern gauge, it will require some sort of fix to make it work.

-klb

[trailcarnage]

Originally Posted by weq92f

Moving to the 'e' tranny you will have issues also with your Odometer/Speedometer. That is, unless you're running a modern gauge, it will require some sort of fix to make it work.

-klb

Speedo? None required. Police around here are a myth so you just need to be relatively close to the limit. Honestly, I see the same three vehicles daily during the first 30 miles of my drive to work.

If I put to need a speed indicator, I will run a GPS unit. I have a couple at work that aren't going to be used.

[weq92f]

No worries on the speedo. I understand they aren't entirely necessary. The Odometer on the other hand is quite a useful bit of kit to have working properly. It doesn't hurt to have the handy speed indicator dial faithfully indicating as a side effect either!

-klb

[trailcarnage]

Okay. I have a total sidetrack question away from this topic. My rig has a Demon cab that I need help identifying. I believe it to be a Speed Demon by have no idea how to confirm the CFM. Any feedback for confirming the model and volume?

[rcazwillis]

Can't help on the ID, but the spark plug stopped me my tracks. What the heck is that all about? Is it replacing a plug?

[trailcarnage]

Originally Posted by rcazwillis

Can't help on the ID, but the spark plug stopped me my tracks. What the heck is that all about? Is it replacing a plug?

I think that is part of the northern climate package.

Seriously, I asked the PO about it and he told me there was a hole that needed to be plugged and it just happened to fit.