Dug's 1959 Fleetside

[dug224]

Ricky: At this moment, I intend to have it sandblasted, primed and painted with NO body work. Get it entirely put back together and drive it during the house build and put off the heavy body work and good paint until after the build. Still a ton of work left no matter what I do. May start the bed mockup in the morning since I am tired of electricity and the truck runs.

Got the cross over pipe built and installed and tied into the factory I-6 mufflers. Sounds quiet and great. Still a bit of a barely detectable lope or miss of some sort but at least we can now hear it. O2 sensors ordered and on the way. By the way, exhaust manifold flanges are NOT the same from driver to passenger side. The passenger side is run of the mill stuff. The driver side is apparently not. Fortunately, I hustled out to the salvage yard and found one in the Cat Converter recycle bin. Find one before you take yours to the muffler shop to save time.

My radiator leak was probably power steering fluid boiling off of the radiator. No signs of water leaking since I noticed it.

Jim brought the heat gun over and he measured the temp of the thermostat housing. Finally got the truck hot enough driving it around the neighborhood several times and the fan finally cycled at about 201 degrees F per LT1SWAP.com programming.

I watched the guy at the muffler shop closely today and learned how someone can MIG weld above their head with no gloves, no welding mask, mouth open and dressed in shorts and a short sleeve shirt. Asked him how he did it. Turns out his trick is to keep the arc behind the handle. Claims he doesn't even squint!!! Been doing the muffler thing for 40 years. I like my eyes, hands and tongue so I will have to stick with convention.

Finally, my buddy at the salvage yard bought a low mileage 2007 Trailblazer SS that I will market for him. Actual miles are yet to be determined. Plan on trying to sell the entire package including the 6.0 LS, Trans, MAF sensor, Throttle body, TAC with associated gas pedal and PCM. Will post the mileage and price once he decides what he wants for it.

[ricott]

I loved the description of the muffler shop guy. A guy that has done some muffler fab for me in the past does it the same way. I would be blind, not to mention the headakes! It's always a great feeling to hear the engine run and to be able to drive it. Looking forward to seeing the bed on the truck.

I'm assuming your salvage operator is like the ones I know, the first thing they do is cut the Cats off the exhaust. If that is his MO, I would love to buy the complete crossover pipe - less the cats - (I do want the manifold flanges also). I can sub in a short piece of pipe to make up where the cats went. I could pick it up later this summer while visiting relatives on the Mississippi GC.

Take care, and congrats again on your progress.

Ricky

[dug224]

Originally Posted by ricott

I loved the description of the muffler shop guy. A guy that has done some muffler fab for me in the past does it the same way. I would be blind, not to mention the headakes! It's always a great feeling to hear the engine run and to be able to drive it. Looking forward to seeing the bed on the truck.

I'm assuming your salvage operator is like the ones I know, the first thing they do is cut the Cats off the exhaust. If that is his MO, I would love to buy the complete crossover pipe - less the cats - (I do want the manifold flanges also). I can sub in a short piece of pipe to make up where the cats went. I could pick it up later this summer while visiting relatives on the Mississippi GC.

Take care, and congrats again on your progress.

Ricky

Ricky: Nice call on the crossover pipe. I am an idiot. I did not even think about it when I was out there running around looking for the flange or I would have grabbed it and saved $200. I will see that it is rescued less the cats. Will have him cut just above and just below the cats which will leave you three pieces work with.

Got the bed assembled and squared up this morning sans bed floor. Got the diagonals within +/- 1/8". Headed to garage to setup the hoist to see if I can swing it over and determine what needs to be modified. Took a quick measurement and it looks like the inside of the factory tubs will clear my tires.

In addition, rerouted my big power wires to and from starter and alternator to get them away from the hot exhaust. Added a grounding lug (10 mm bolt with 2 nuts) to my wooden fuse board. Dug

[dug224]

Got the bed hoisted up and onto the frame. Solicited help from the wife to keep it steady. I have been using a chain to do such lifting. Decided to use four of my many Sam's Club ratchet straps instead. What a difference. It allowed me to adjust each corner to make the bed level.

Had to take off the wheel to get the hoist close enough to drop the bed. Ultimately, I had to remove 3 of the 5 cross braces to get the bed down to where it belongs. I will lose about 5 to 6 inches of bed depth and even a bit more where the rear shock towers are. The wheel tubs have about 1/2" clear from the inside of the tire to the tub. Had to remove the rear trailer hitch so the end of the bed would clear the frame. I will reinstall a version of the receiver hitch later. Initially, I thought the trailer hitch was welded to the frame. Six bolts removed it. Battery tray design worked out and is clear of all sheet metal and will make changing the battery pretty easy. The front bed cross member of the bed is 3.5" above the frame and is clear of the fuel tank.

As I predicted, the biggest dilemma is the rear wheel placement in the opening. With the bed shoved all the way up against and touching the cab, it is still not quite right to my eye. The wheel is a bit too far forward. In short, should have stretched the frame 1 to 2 inches. Too late. Will have to modify the front of the bed to clear the cab or I may cut out all or portions of the wheel opening and move the sheet metal.

Also will reconsider the overall rake of the stance. Looks a bit aggressive inside the garage. May look a bit different when I back it out of the garage tomorrow. If I do anything to correct it I may rotate the front up (an inch or so) around the rear cab mounts. This will lower the rear of the bed and make it look a little less aggressive. See picture below.

Feel free to comment positive or negative on both the rake/stance and the wheel -vs- wheel opening. I can take it. Will post outside pictures tomorrow. Dug

[dug224]

...more photos.

[dug224]

...and a bit more....

Picture one is the bed. Notice the shock towers near the rear inside edge of the wheel tub and the end of the large round cross member. Note also high the spring perch beam is across the center of the wheel tubs.

Picture two is the relative location of the end of the frame and the back bed cross member after the receiver hitch was removed.

Picture three is another shot of the battery.

Picture four is the receiver hitch.

[Kim57]

That kinda sucks on the wheel placement.
If it were me I would get the bed where it looks good in relation to the cab and probably just cut and lengthen the frame. Seems like the easiest fix.
Kim

[dug224]

Originally Posted by Kim57

That kinda sucks on the wheel placement.
If it were me I would get the bed where it looks good in relation to the cab and probably just cut and lengthen the frame. Seems like the easiest fix.
Kim

Kim: In light of the fact that I need sheet metal/body work practice if I ever want to catch up with you, I have decided to place the bed roughly the stock position and cut out the wheel openings and move them forward. Took some black tape and blacked out the area on the body in front of the tire to simulate this. Looks decent. Basically mimicking the space in front of the front tire. Also decided the rake/stance is ok. If, when finished, it looks too aggressive, I can cut the rear springs or replace with lowering springs. Bed depth loss looks like it will be around 6" which still leaves me plenty of room to haul stuff.

Next move is to properly hang all the sheet metal from front to back then finalize the bed mounting. Got kind of focused on making it run and did not really hang all the sheet metal very accurately.

[ricott]

Your truck looks real good with the bed on it, and I think your wait and see approach to the rake issue is a good one. One possible easy thing to try (for a visual) would be to get another trailblazer spare and put the two spares on the front to see how the rake looks. Another possibility is using the BellTech 2 or 3 inch drop springs for the trailblazer rear (and they are not that pricy). As to the wheel opening, I would vote for the "one step back" and lengthen the frame. While I enjoy sheet metal work and definitely could go for that idea, I think the proportions of the bed when finished will leave you disappointed.

No matter what, YOUR TRUCK ROCKS! Thanks again for posting all your hard work. I am dying to get back on mine - the GTO just has to leave.

Ricky

PS - I want that crossover pipe. I will touch base to work out the details.

[Kim57]

I agree with Ricky on the stance and outcome of moving the wheel opening on the bed.
The proportions may look a little odd and then your going to be stuck with it.
Maybe you can post a side pic in the photo shop section and ask one of the guys to show you what it may look like.
Kim

[dug224]

Ricky & Kim: Man, just when I thought it was safe to go back in the garage I get this. Deep down inside I know the frame extension is the right thing to do and I agree and troubled by the potential future disappoint scenario. Will continue to cogitate on the matter and I am officially back on the fence with regard to direction. Regardless, I need to properly setup the sheet metal so I can properly determine frame stretch length. I really do appreaciate the input.

Ricky: If I decide to stretch it, I will give you a call and talk with you before I dive in. I secured the deal on the crossover pipe...it is yours. I will be heading out Monday after the salvage auction to talk with the guy who will be pulling it apart.

My buddy Gordon came over in his nice '70's (I believe '78) sleeper truck to weigh in on the bed decision. He agrees with Ricky and Kim so I am officially out numbered. Need to scan and post my old fleet from back in the day. Had a '73, '74 and '77 back in the '70's.

Dug

[dug224]

Dug up the old photos. The '73 was my first real vehicle. Technically, the first one was a 4 door 1974 Dodge Dart. Pretty low on the cool factor but was better than walking...barely. The '74 4WD GMC we bought wrecked and put it back together and the '77 was bought new when I graduated from High School. Note the wheel/tire combo, Dodge Charger gas cap, chrome front bumper and spoiler. Ultimately put some rotating buckets in it out of a Monte Carlo. High dollar mods at the time. Time flies...dug

[79azc10]

I think it would be unique and different if your were to shorten the bed to fit the frame and center the wheels in the arches. People would step back and state wondering was is different about it.

[dug224]

Originally Posted by 79azc10

I think it would be unique and different if your were to shorten the bed to fit the frame and center the wheels in the arches. People would step back and state wondering was is different about it.

In other words modify the rear overhang as well? Yet another idea add to the mix. I already think the rear stock overhang is a bit much. My idea would have made it worse. The good news is that the rear pieces that cap the end of the bed are a bit loose from all the 4WD the original owners had and would be easily removed. May be challenged by the tip of the bullet on the side of the bed. It is almost to the leading edge of the bed. Maybe a combo of shorting the rear overhang and moving the wheel opening slightly. Hmmmmm. I will take a look at this in the morning. Thanks for the input. Dug

[47 Fasttoys]

OK, my 2 cents on the bed issue, I would take a section out of the bed sides right in front of the wheel opening. If the spear has no taper at that point lining it up should be easy. If your only talking about 1 or 2 inches I don't think it will be noticed. If you add to the frame you have to add to the brake lines, wiring, fuel lines, drive shaft and exhaust. That will end taking a ton of time and a bit of cash. Cutting and moving the opening forward will also work, but the area behind the opening will become longer by the same amount and that method will require more welding and additional angles to match up. You will also need to keep an eye on the inner fenders (tubs). Either way the truck is coming along nicely. I think using the late model chassis will show it's value in the years to come.
Rob

[ricott]

If you ultimately decided to shorten the Bed in the front, I would take a like amount out of the "overhang" to retain its proportionality. Search for "T-Man's 58 Apache project" They took a long wheelbase fleetside and cut the bed down. The bed cut starts at about post 208. I will call you next week to discuss the crossover pipe.

[ChuckDriver]

Well, I'll jump in too. I think you should place the bed in the correct location in relation to the cab, and stretch to frame to center the wheel. But that's just my opinion, its your truck after all. Either way you've done a great job, love the way it looks so far!

[dug224]

Originally Posted by 47 Fasttoys

OK, my 2 cents on the bed issue, I would take a section out of the bed sides right in front of the wheel opening. If the spear has no taper at that point lining it up should be easy. If your only talking about 1 or 2 inches I don't think it will be noticed. If you add to the frame you have to add to the brake lines, wiring, fuel lines, drive shaft and exhaust. That will end taking a ton of time and a bit of cash. Cutting and moving the opening forward will also work, but the area behind the opening will become longer by the same amount and that method will require more welding and additional angles to match up. You will also need to keep an eye on the inner fenders (tubs). Either way the truck is coming along nicely. I think using the late model chassis will show it's value in the years to come.
Rob

Rob: Should be about 2 inches that the wheel opening needs to move forward. Stretching the frame includes all those things you mentioned that are mostly complete and I really don't want to fool with them....but will if I have to. If I alter the beds sides, I will pick areas that have simple shapes that I can actually the patch panels for. Tomorrow, I will go old school and print a picture of the truck and manually move the opening forward and then slice out a portion behind the wheel opening to see how it looks. I don't have photo shop on this machine. I agree the value is yet to come mostly in the fact that I can drive it much like a new car. Thanks for joining in. Dug

[dug224]

Originally Posted by ChuckDriver

Well, I'll jump in too. I think you should place the bed in the correct location in relation to the cab, and stretch to frame to center the wheel. But that's just my opinion, its your truck after all. Either way you've done a great job, love the way it looks so far!

Thanks for jumping in and for the compliment. This is a tough one for me and I agree with you....but, getting it on the road and not doing things over is also tugging on me. Stay tuned. Dug

[dug224]

Originally Posted by ricott

If you ultimately decided to shorten the Bed in the front, I would take a like amount out of the "overhang" to retain its proportionality. Search for "T-Man's 58 Apache project" They took a long wheelbase fleetside and cut the bed down. The bed cut starts at about post 208. I will call you next week to discuss the crossover pipe.

Did a review of "T-Man's 58 Apache project". Great suggestion. Looks like he centered rear wheels between the front and back curves along the top of the wheel opening. Looks good to my eye. See posts 240 and 383. Also found where he cleaned up the leading edge of the bed (posts 229 – 230). Headed down to the garage to level and square the sheet metal overall so I can work my way back to the bed. Thanks. Dug

[47 Fasttoys]

Hay Dug, played a little on paint, 2" off the front section.
Rob

[dug224]

Rob: Starting to shape up. I can see what you did and it definitely looks better. Did you take a slice out from behind the wheel? Thanks for doing this for me.

Here's what I did this morning. May have to refine the math but this should be close. First, I found the center point of the wheel center cap and marked it. I then drew a green line (can see in photo) on the bed side parallel to the top of the wheel opening and found the "center" of the line. Tough deciding where the center is but I finally narrowed it to a point I can defend.

Existing Condition: Photo 1 represents current condition with a 5/8" gap from the front of the tire to the inside edge of the front of the wheel opening.

Scenario 1: Jacked up the rear and took the wheel off. I drew a line from the center point of the line at the top of the wheel opening perpendicular to the garage floor and centered the wheel on this line. See photo 2. The gap in front of the tire in this scenario is 1-3/8".

Scenario 2: I drew a line from the center point perpendicular the line at the top of the wheel opening (rather than perp to garage floor). This line is at an 86 degree angle from the garage floor. See photo 3. The gap in front of the tire in this scenario is 1-7/8". This appears to be the correct location. The gap in front of the front tire, depending where you measure it in the fender curve is approximately 2-1/8" so I am within a 1/4" of matching it. So, shift the rear wheel opening forward 1-7/8" (or 2") and take a slice out behind the rear wheel opening in the 2" range.

Last two photos are with the wheel in the correct position. Rake is still aggressive. I feel a shorter rear spring in my future.

By the way, the bed setup is as follows:
- from edge at back of cab to face of bed is 3/8".
- the vertical gap you can see on the side of the truck where the bed meets the cab is 5/8".
- wheel tub to inner tire clearance is about 3/4" on both sides which still may be too close.

thx..dug

[Kim57]

To me it looks like the wheel needs to go back a little more in the opening.
When you lower the bed down there is going to be a much larger gap behind the wheel/tire than whats in front of it from a visual perspective.
Kim

[dug224]

Originally Posted by Kim57

To me it looks like the wheel needs to go back a little more in the opening.
When you lower the bed down there is going to be a much larger gap behind the wheel/tire than whats in front of it from a visual perspective.
Kim

Kim: Will take this into consideration when Jim comes over and we do more precise measuring and bed loading. Just to get the front gap similar to the front gap on the front tire, I will need to move the wheel back at least a little bit more so, we are headed that way.

Just got some input from my friend Kevin down in Florida. He is a Jeep Wrangler guy. He suggested I look at extending the trailing arms which includes drive-shaft and possibly brake lines. Hmmmmm. Will put in on the list for consideration.

[dsraven]

hey dug, before you go for it with the trailing arms check to see if your upper spring mounts will line up close enough. if it is just an inch maybe you will be lucky, too much and the coil springs won't line up. may cause binding or squeaks etc later on. also check to see if the rubber jounce stop will be ok, maybe have to move that as well. if you just extend the lowers it will put the pinion angle out of whack.
haven't done anything on my old truck since feb. maybe gonna dust it off this weekend. gotta fab a cab extension for the pass side.