39 truck

[jackson]

any ideas on a front clip not mustangII

[paintman]

you might want to post your question in the suspension forum, the pre 47 club is very quiet. I think there either all mutes or mimes

[special-K]

Well,I'd give it more than 2 hours to decide if you'll get a response or not. This message board needs posts,too. Besides,the suspension board is mostly about bagging and laying frame on later trucks that already have independent suspension. I think the guys with these trucks will have great suggestions for a pre-war truck. Take time to read through this area and you'll probably see what some others have done.

[Goatnut]

It is fairly popular to graft on a 2nd gen Camaro/Firebird subframe to old trucks. I got one for my 47 (first series) but I ended up getting an S-10 that I will use the entire frame and suspension from. If the rest of mt frame was in better shape I would have just gone with the Camaro subframe.

[old yelr]

Flat Out Engineering and Progressive Automotive both use Corvette suspension components for the front and rear.
Check out "Uncle Howards 1946 Chevy Truck" build, he's using the Flat out setup.

[Tony@Roadstershop]

What are you looking to get out of the truck and what driving height and style are you after? Why are you against a MII style suspension?

[Scottshotrods]

Take a look at our ifs kits we build for your truck.

www.scottshotrods.com

If you have some questions you can e-mail us at

scotts@scottshotrods.com
jeff@scottshotrods.com

[jhaymon]

s-10 and elcaminos make great donors. if you wanna go new check out Spohn .

[truckeez]

First--DO NOT listen to anyone trying to tell you to put your truck on S10 carp. I wouldnt use a sub frame from a camaro/nova either.

Jaguar ifs cradle is the way to go! $150 at almost any salvage yard gets you a complete unit with disc brakes--and a rear steer rack -its already chevy 5 lug bolt pattern, and rides light yrs better than any mustang ll /pinto chit. You just break out the harbour freight grinder and whack off all the xjs xj6 unnecessary appendages and slip up under your stock frame and do simple scheming about how you will mate it, then you DO pirate a 10 bolt from a 70 or newer camaro/nova/gm intermediate to mount in the rear.

[jhaymon]

Originally Posted by truckeez

First--DO NOT listen to anyone trying to tell you to put your truck on S10 carp. I wouldnt use a sub frame from a camaro/nova either.

Jaguar ifs cradle is the way to go! $150 at almost any salvage yard gets you a complete unit with disc brakes--and a rear steer rack -its already chevy 5 lug bolt pattern, and rides light yrs better than any mustang ll /pinto chit. You just break out the harbour freight grinder and whack off all the xjs xj6 unnecessary appendages and slip up under your stock frame and do simple scheming about how you will mate it, then you DO pirate a 10 bolt from a 70 or newer camaro/nova/gm intermediate to mount in the rear.

jaguar uses pretty much the same rear as a corvette and aston martin, but doesnt use the gas hardened gears like vette and martin. they had allot of issues in the e-type jag with the ifs so i dont really recommend putting them on a project. if you do, well, in all honesty it'll cost you more to rebuild a jag ifs than it will to buy a kit for your truck with a new ifs with the cross member and all the mounting hardware.
it's a good rear end for a light car, but a full size truck is too heavy for an ifs rear. you try moving much more 3000lbs and you're constantly replacing half-shafts.

we suggest the f-body front end because it's cheap and so many people use them that it is now and will be easy to maintain due to parts availability. the down side is, yes it is a much narrowed front end from factory due to the fact it was made for a passenger car or light truck. if you wanna do it right go with a 1/2ton are 3/4ton rack and pinion off a newer gm truck, but in this case you better off putting a new frame under it because it's questionable if a 39 frame is really strong enough for the forces put out but by hydraulic ram made to turn 18"-22" inch rims effortlessly.

[truckeez]

Originally Posted by jhaymon

jaguar uses pretty much the same rear as a corvette and aston martin, but doesnt use the gas hardened gears like vette and martin. they had allot of issues in the e-type jag with the ifs so i dont really recommend putting them on a project. if you do, well, in all honesty it'll cost you more to rebuild a jag ifs than it will to buy a kit for your truck with a new ifs with the cross member and all the mounting hardware.
it's a good rear end for a light car, but a full size truck is too heavy for an ifs rear. you try moving much more 3000lbs and you're constantly replacing half-shafts.

we suggest the f-body front end because it's cheap and so many people use them that it is now and will be easy to maintain due to parts availability. the down side is, yes it is a much narrowed front end from factory due to the fact it was made for a passenger car or light truck. if you wanna do it right go with a 1/2ton are 3/4ton rack and pinion off a newer gm truck, but in this case you better off putting a new frame under it because it's questionable if a 39 frame is really strong enough for the forces put out but by hydraulic ram made to turn 18"-22" inch rims effortlessly.

The gent was asking about a Front Suspension, And i didn't mention e-type front ends. you cant find those sitting in a salage yard anywhere.
xj6 up to 86 and xjs up to 96 all have the front suspension unit im talking about

installing a jag crossmember is WAAAAY easier than doing a front camaro subframe install, and the builder is not butchering the original frame to hell--He still has the stock frame--and horns and bumper brackets. i guess you are in the buiz--and push what makes money.
the jag is the perfect track width for a late 30's gm pickup, and all it really requires is new BOLT IN Ball Joints, and new a arm bushings-- avalable all day -everyday thru the magic box--just ckick and have the big brown truck drop them off.
anyone putting 18"-22" rubber on a 30's pickup has some SERIOUS SCREWS LOOSE. but if they insisted-- The jags had 16" in the last of that series--and these handle light yrs ahead of the 60's camaro.

as far as discussing jag rear ends-- thats a different subject for guys interested in those too the OP should search what im tipping him to--and he would see.

[jhaymon]

well i though you were talking about a rear as that is very popular right now for prewar cars right now. builders no longer use the the jag fronts because we've learned what stoping the rotating force of the larger rims does to them. the x type is way to light for any domestic application. the e-type would be the only one that would support the weight of a truck and your pushing it. a mustang front is actually too light for a driver, but after market manufacturers have address the things we as builders had to do before fatman came on the scene. you are telling this guy to build a trailer queen and that erks me.they work great in a pantera or a pre 35 as they weight less than 3000lbs, but the problem come if you plan on keeping the vehicle for a while as i found out. they become troublesome and expensive. front end, rear end, it doesnt matter. ive done this swap several times in the past before an alternative was available. it was a very popular swap on mid 50s ford trucks and well i still have a couple of my 50s fords and ive recently had to cut the jag parts out and replace them with with mustang and vega fronts.

[truckeez]

Originally Posted by jhaymon

well i though you were talking about a rear as that is very popular right now for prewar cars right now. builders no longer use the the jag fronts because we've learned what stoping the rotating force of the larger rims does to them. the x type is way to light for any domestic application. the e-type would be the only one that would support the weight of a truck and your pushing it. a mustang front is actually too light for a driver, but after market manufacturers have address the things we as builders had to do before fatman came on the scene. you are telling this guy to build a trailer queen and that erks me.they work great in a pantera or a pre 35 as they weight less than 3000lbs, but the problem come if you plan on keeping the vehicle for a while as i found out. they become troublesome and expensive. front end, rear end, it doesnt matter. ive done this swap several times in the past before an alternative was available. it was a very popular swap on mid 50s ford trucks and well i still have a couple of my 50s fords and ive recently had to cut the jag parts out and replace them with with mustang and vega fronts.

This is all silly, jags make the best- quickest and cheapest route to converting to a great modern suspension, As i already said the cars were riding on 16" at the end of their runs, carrying v12's and turbo 400 transmissions in the xj and xjs. --cant carry the weight-ridiculous.
Countless swaps have been done here more recently using the late jag stuff--but mainly in Australia. There's plenty of trucks with bigblocks. And NO most of these rods DONT need 13" rotors--because its too much brake for most.
Sounds like you might be a favorite of 55-59's mainly ide bet. 18-20" tires arent in the realm of the late 30's trucks the fenders just aren't designed for that big a tire--even if someone was dumb enough to run them.

The reason rod shops just want to discredit them is because its got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a shop making money off it,.........................

Cant have that happening.. for sure!

The only person the owner has to deal with is the guy at the salvage yard counter and -maybe a scrapmetal yard for a piece of channel,
And thats all.

If you look closely at the rear steer offering from heidt's it looks suspiciously like a direct knock off of the jag crossmember--anyone who wants to say its flimsier than the heidts piece of square tubing is Nuts.
Something else you said just dosent make sense either--- a steering rack off a late model gm pickup on a early camaro front subframe dosent work correctly either- even by bolting on the steering arms backward.

Guess what though-- if someone were trying to find the best rack and pinion to mount on the early Camaro subframe in the correct rear steer setup......................

And not pay unisteer--or steeroids a $100 for a kit--

Take a guess which car would be a good bet to get it from?

[truckeez]

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=440178
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=513236

http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/f100.html

[jhaymon]

humm..well..

f=mv^2/r and Δ = PL3/(48EI)

proof the truck is too heavy

[special-K]

A 39 pickup is heavier than an XJ Jaguar? Are you sure? How much heavier? Will it stop better than the stock brakes? Aren't the pre-war trucks about as narrow as a later model car. Modern trucks are way wider than these trucks. That's why guys use S10s.

[slimbailess]

just thought I would throw something in...IFS-independent FRONT suspension IRS- independent REAR suspension....if I were going to replace the front suspension in a truck, wanting it to handle, I would look into a corvette based front suspension, they aren't heavy cars, but the parts have been tested on the track....if you want it to ride like a car then use car parts....personally, I like the straight axle in my 46....

[truckeez]

Originally Posted by special-K

A 39 pickup is heavier than an XJ Jaguar? Are you sure? How much heavier? Will it stop better than the stock brakes? Aren't the pre-war trucks about as narrow as a later model car. Modern trucks are way wider than these trucks. That's why guys use S10s.

The last part im not understanding, S10's are narrower than late 30's -- getting misled down that path leads to a deadend project being sold off on ebay for whatever the guy can get for it--- suprisingly some little piles of dukee get winning bids that are envious--- BUT--thats ebay, howmany of them end up being the guy shows up and decide's he will negotiate a good bit lower --or walk is usually more the case I would bet. Ebay does mnothing to the buyer for this-The down side of selling vehicles there.

[truckeez]

Originally Posted by slimbailess

just thought I would throw something in...IFS-independent FRONT suspension IRS- independent REAR suspension....if I were going to replace the front suspension in a truck, wanting it to handle, I would look into a corvette based front suspension, they aren't heavy cars, but the parts have been tested on the track....if you want it to ride like a car then use car parts....personally, I like the straight axle in my 46....

depends on wether you are auto cross minded, some of my trucks I want that kind of handling, an everyday cruiser the jag is the best deal out there.
if one starts thinking about delving into corvette based stuff, the main way being pushed-is to have to pay someone like Art Morrison for a complete chassis.
people who want to educate themselves about suspensions -The basics are fundamental and the good place to start is Tex leroy Smiths book about hotrod suspensions. All the fundamental rules are there and they DO NOT CHANGE wehther you are talking about an early ford with a cross leafspring and a straight axle --to c6 corvette based stuuff----as far as the theoretical lines that moving parts ---like steering arm eye holes to rack& P inner pivot points have to pass thru.

[truckeez]

Once you understand the basic stuff and spend more time flogging the magic box for more info---- or after yrs of paying your dues learning from old experienced greybeards like I did before the internet ( if you did this you have done every thing from volare or pacer front ends to corvair and boneyard torched stock Mustang II crossmembers to the aftermarket stuff that sprowted up later).
currently the latest annd greatest darlings are the c5/6 based stuff, if you are looking thru the mags--you already know there is a corvette chassis to stick under a truck or an early camaro. There are also websites that solely exist to further induce the brain conditioning that -You just gotta break out the credit card and pop for a $6000.. subframe --or $12000.00 for a full length one to-
Be IN with The IN Crowd.
the websites are lateral-G and protouring.com When you go there -You better not mention what the sole reason the the sites to exist--or you will be immediately dogpiled be the mods for overturning their apple cart.
If you are intent on getting the info you need for your Camaro or Truck, forget it--its closely protected-like They invented the c5 stuff instead of gm.
.... Didn't work with me, anyone trying to tell ME --"You cant do this stuff- or " its beyond the scope of an average enthusiest"...........

They would be more productive climbing up to the tallest hill they can find and take a whizz into a stiff headwind.

[truckeez]

Anyway it all comes to what the owner is able to do with either money or his skills and tallant.
The jags with the V12 2 door weighs just over 4000 lbs. the sedan weighs 4250 lbs. The fully equipped v12 engine itsself weighs 680 lbs---more than an all iron BB chevy.

Yea --this suspension can handle the weight.

after all the xj mounting brackets are cut/and stuff grinded down it looks like this,........ I spent $135 on this-missing one caliper.
This one had some rudely improvised jag-ro-let engine mounts, when these conversions are done they use the jag twin ohc 6 springs--closest to the 575lb small bloch chevy

the big brown truck dropped off $125 of new balljoints and bushings. so having them installed -another $30 bucks. and my 38 chevy patently waits on some wodden blocks.

[Puropedo]

Hey Truckeez, it seems you have some experiense with those Jag Ifs's, I have a 1946 1/2 ton Deco era Chevy truck, Would you recommend one of this ifs for it? I havent measure the original front track width but it seems to be pretty narrow, would the Jag ifs be about the same lenght?

[truckeez]

Originally Posted by Puropedo

Hey Truckeez, it seems you have some experiense with those Jag Ifs's, I have a 1946 1/2 ton Deco era Chevy truck, Would you recommend one of this ifs for it? I havent measure the original front track width but it seems to be pretty narrow, would the Jag ifs be about the same lenght?

Definately would use it -it will be a little lower but that all depends on your mounting bracket arrangement--meaning you can weld some angle on top of the crossmember and use rubber tire tread sandwitched imbetween isolating where it bolts up--or you can channel down into the CM for more drop. (I dont intend to weld mine to the frame-but some do that too). Im working on my COE right now so it will be a little while before I post my pics of my installation, lack of funds too, I supply 34-38 GMC stuff to builders so tell your friends about me.

[Puropedo]

Originally Posted by truckeez

Definately would use it -it will be a little lower but that all depends on your mounting bracket arrangement--meaning you can weld some angle on top of the crossmember and use rubber tire tread sandwitched imbetween isolating where it bolts up--or you can channel down into the CM for more drop. (I dont intend to weld mine to the frame-but some do that too). Im working on my COE right now so it will be a little while before I post my pics of my installation, lack of funds too, I supply 34-38 GMC stuff to builders so tell your friends about me.

Cool man, what Jag year should I look for? Do you know the exact track width on one of this? Thx for your advise

[truckeez]

Originally Posted by Puropedo

Cool man, what Jag year should I look for? Do you know the exact track width on one of this? Thx for your advise

up to 86 on the 4 door sedan --- or up to 96 on the 2 door coupe with the rear quarter sails and the loooong hood!