Engine Build ?

[85/Silverado]

I have a guy building me a Stroker 350 chevy motor, I know it won't be a 383 he said it will be different.. Anyways the question is he said he is having a special Crank built to change the firing order for better cooling..

{By swapping #4 and #7 cylinders in the firing order, this eliminates the fuel distribution and heat problems caused by cylinders #5 and #7 firing in succession.}

I was wondering if anyone else has done this?

I already bought the Vortec Heads 200cc intake runners, 64cc combustion Chambers,,, 2.02 stainless intake,, 1.50 exhaust. So the heads are the best I could fine.
And Edelbrock 7116 Vortec Pro. RPM Intake.
Not sure how big a carb I should get 650 or 750?

[geezer#99]

It's not a special crank, it's a special ground cam. Read about it here.
http://www.hotrod.com/techfaq/113_0701_lunati_cams/
It seems the gain is minimal. There test showed only 12 hp more. It's not really worth the money.

[truckster]

The 350 SBC doesn't have a problem with cooling. As far as horsepower gains, I doubt you'll see any with that swap on a 350.

I don't mean to offend you, but it sounds like you're not really sure what you're getting. I'd be really careful, because it can get really expensive really fast.

[69chevytrucker]

as for carb 650 is more than enough no small block would ever need anymore than 536 cfm carb pretty much no matter what you did to the engine

[mud.man.rj]

Look into the valve lift if using stock springs on the Vortec heads, hopefully the springs are being upgraded, will cause bind if to much lift. A 650 is fine for carb and make sure the builder said cam not crank or may want to get someone else to build the engine. Prob just mentioned crank as in stroker and then mentioned the different firing order, all that does is make it idle better and a bit smoother off the bottom end.

[85/Silverado]

Sorry I meant Cam. The Vortec heads have been redone New screw in studs and guide plates .600 springs.

[mud.man.rj]

Glad the heads are in order, what compression ratio will it end up with, flat top pistons or domed, how about Hp, have to let us know how it all works out.

[85/Silverado]

The Comp. will be 10.4 to 1 we are trying for a lot of Torque since it's a heavy pickup. should be around 450 hp and more in Torque. He got the Block, Crank, Cam, Pistons & rods. I will supply everything else. Hopefully all for under 4K. I'll try and get the most I can out of my motor when I take it out.

[Marv D]

Just curious to what 'stroker' he's building??? You can fit a 3.875 stroke in a 4" bore block with a LOT of work,, for 395 inches @ +.030. The specility pieces needed for the 'odd ball' strokers are ,,, well,, Of those I've built are seldom worth the added expense of staying mainstream.

The 7-4, (2-3) swap gives you the same firing order as the LS motors. Supposed to give you a smoother idle and help reduce the intake reversion and pulsing of the 5-7 firing order. We did a motor and the cam grinder I was working with said there was an identical build he had just finished with the 7-4 swap cam. In the end,, the cam grinder said the 7-4 swap motor made 2HP more than my standard F.O. (that was at the 660HP solid roller range) My dyno report was from a SF901 and supposedly the other motor was also on a superflow dyno. That's all strictly 'as I was told', And because of that I never bothered with a 7-4 swap in any of my own stuff.

If your looking for every last HP for some heads up racing the swap is maybe worth while,, but if the cam grinder is charging extra for the core to build the swap cam,, Is 2 PEAK HP really worth it to you???

[mud.man.rj]

Sounds like a well thought out engine build, don't want any higher compression on today's great stuff we call gas. I agree, torque is the name of the game with a truck, that's why I always run a big block. Especially with mine having a 40" tire and 3.73's. Mind you the manual trans helps quite a bit. If I use an auto always run a stall, usually around 2,500. makes a lot of difference to get the weight moving.

[mud.man.rj]

The only thing I didn't like about the cam firing order swap was that it sounds like a smaller cam at idle, smooths it right out, but the off idle transition is well worth it $ wise, so much smoother, almost like a roller.

[85/Silverado]

Thanks Guys. The only other thing is to get a 700R Tranny for $800.00 built for the engine specks. There is a place in Jacksonville Fl. that builds to suite.
Another thing.. Is there a cheap way to drop the truck a couple inches in the front.? I know about dropping the rear leafs.
My wife is getting close to 70 and is only 5' tall so a little would help.

[mud.man.rj]

Pull the front coils, use a cutoff wheel, not a torch, heat is bad...and cut one coil from it, will drop the truck 2". Cheap and handles way better.

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by Marv D

Just curious to what 'stroker' he's building??? You can fit a 3.875 stroke in a 4" bore block with a LOT of work,, for 395 inches @ +.030. The specility pieces needed for the 'odd ball' strokers are ,,, well,, Of those I've built are seldom worth the added expense of staying mainstream.

Maybe the cat is going the other way with a destroked 400. 377 c.i.???

Gary

[mud.man.rj]

Good point on the destroked 400, was thinking about that.

[85/Silverado]

Here is my order so far. Am I missing anything? I want to start ordering tomorrow. Thanks
The top 7 items the Mechanic Is getting.

Custom 282 Cam & Lifters and Pushrods 350.00
.30 Over Block 450.00
Crank 325.00
Rods 200.00
Pistons 425.00
Berrings 90.00
Rings 125.00

Vortec Custom Built for Cam 800.00
MSD Billet Dist. / Ing. MSD 6al/ & Coil. 435.00
Vortec Intake 215.00
Holly 650 double Pumper Carb 400.00
New Alum. Radiator 120.00
100 amp Chrome Alt 140.00
Vortec Valve Covers 50.00
Timing Chain 26.00
Water Pump 50.00
Starter 80.00
Fuel Pump 50.00
Harmonic Balancer 65.00

[Marv D]

I'm sorry I'm not trying to harp on anything here,, or be demeaning in any way....but your getting WAY ahead of yourself.

Your getting some kind of custom stroker crank for $325?????

You really can't select a cam until you know a LOT more like compression, converter , gearing / tire size, (vehicle weight would be a plus..) Desired driving type/style... And that one thing that still hasn't been answered..... cubic inches!

You don't know what length pushrods you need until you assemble the motor with the cam, heads, and rockers, valves and springs installed at proper height... that are in YOUR particular assembly.

If this is a stroker crank,, at that price it is going to be some imported cast item that is going to need a BUNCH of balancing. Is it internal or external balanced?,, the balancer and flexplate you buy depends on KNOWING which and ordering the RIGHT part or you will beat the bearings out of the motor.

The MDS 6al will not do a THING for you here except offer high side rev limit. Be sure to order the packag of chips for the RPM limit you are wanting. A 'good' HEI with divorced coil will do everything you want.. Well except lighten your wallet the additional $300

I'm wondering what the "Vortec Custom built for Cam" is at $800 Is that the heads??? what cc are they? Do they have the correct springs for YOUR cam?

I guess all I'm getting at is your asking for advice, but only offering only a piece of the information needed.

If this is just budgeting,, I dont see:
A pan with clearance for the "stroker" crank
Oil pump / pickup
Timing cover
correct flexplate for balance method
Unless your on the track, you REALLY do not want a double pumper carb. Find a good used 3310 vacuum secondary holley and rebuild, or if you insist on new, the 4175 will fill the bill nicely
I don't see rocker arms in your list anywhere,, they have to be the vortec specific self aligning rockers for Vortec heads,, or maybe not depending on what head this is,, a GM casting or some aftermarket.


Everything I see in your engine plan I'd stop, drop and roll then stat all over.

If you have a machine shop building the short block,, GET SOME SPECIFICS so you can make intelligent decisions not a 'carcraft trick of the month' part selection


For the difference in the cost of the parts your going to be having to buy twice,, and the gallons of oil additive you will be buying to keep a flat tappet cam alive,,, you can do it right step up to a decent hydraulic roller cam. Performance, economy and RELIABILITY is 10 fold improved.


If that "Vortec Custom built for Cam $800" is for heads,, your 2/3 of the way towards one of the best Vortec heads on the market for a street car / truck, The Edelbrock Etec in the 170cc version will be an EXCELENT choice for a heavy truck, ~355 - 383 cubic inches with anything less than 6800rpm. Those heads have such astonishing port volocity we have used them on 406 motors and made over 500HP,, and put the same head on a 327 with EFI and eeked out 22MPG @ 75 on the freeway in a 3900 pound El Camino.
Ive used the RHS iron Vortec heads, GMPP "Bowtie" vortecs, Dart, and the L31 production castings tweeked to work with more lift. The off brand reconditioned L31 / imported Vortec head clones are not the bargin thay appear to be.

All in all it's your pile of ,, you have the right to throw them at this motor any way YOU see fit. But if you drop back 5 and think about this here a bit with some clear information and then make some INFORMED decisions,, you can follow some very wise words....

BUY ONCE, CRY ONCE

or... make your choices, pay your money and live with the results.

[ka_jd7and1]

I am wondering if he isn't doing a 9/16 stroker (3.625 stroke) which would be 370ci +/-. At that point, why not just go 383 though?

[GASoline71]

Holy cats Marv... great advice.

Gary

[85/Silverado]

The Cam is a 282 Duration, 525 lift and 109 centerline. The crank he is supplying with the Block and they are at the machine shop as far as I know.
The Vortec Heads are 2.02 intake 1.50 exhaust 64cc combustion chamber, 200cc intake runners. We're going to polish the intakes. The Springs are .550.
Compression will be 10.4/1 This is all I know so far, I'm just guessing on the external parts.



These are the heads I'm going to order. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CHEVY-GM...a96110&vxp=mtr

[bigmac73]

call me crazy but i do not see any markings on those heads that say GM, I would ask to see the front of those to check the "saw tooth marks" or should there be more markings on them from GM???

now if i am wrong about the markings , Please somebody let me know,

i found out the hard way when i pulled my heads off and found out they where Chinese knock off vortecs, from my crate engine

[mud.man.rj]

Originally Posted by 85/Silverado

Here is my order so far. Am I missing anything? I want to start ordering tomorrow. Thanks
The top 7 items the Mechanic Is getting.

Custom 282 Cam & Lifters and Pushrods 350.00
.30 Over Block 450.00
Crank 325.00
Rods 200.00
Pistons 425.00
Berrings 90.00
Rings 125.00

Vortec Custom Built for Cam 800.00
MSD Billet Dist. / Ing. MSD 6al/ & Coil. 435.00
Vortec Intake 215.00
Holly 650 double Pumper Carb 400.00
New Alum. Radiator 120.00
100 amp Chrome Alt 140.00
Vortec Valve Covers 50.00
Timing Chain 26.00
Water Pump 50.00
Starter 80.00
Fuel Pump 50.00
Harmonic Balancer 65.00

Cam bearings, gears for the timing chain and agree with the Edelbrock heads, have used 2 sets and kick the Vortec heads and good price complete and also as mentioned don't need the MSD parts. Don't forget plug wires and proper plugs.

[85/Silverado]

Originally Posted by bigmac73

call me crazy but i do not see any markings on those heads that say GM, I would ask to see the front of those to check the "saw tooth marks" or should there be more markings on them from GM???

now if i am wrong about the markings , Please somebody let me know,

i found out the hard way when i pulled my heads off and found out they where Chinese knock off vortecs, from my crate engine

The Head Shop sent me this email today when I asked if these were Chinese junk.

sorry about the price increase but the supplier of the eq head has raised the price to me so i must do the same. all the parts that are installed in the heads are made by" pep" precision engineering out of las vegas nevada a good american co. yes we do vacuum test the heads and they are built by a very good tech... just look at his feedback it is nothing but good

[85/Silverado]

My Builder really wants the 200cc Vortec Iron heads, how much difference will the Alum Edelbrock 185cc heads make in performance?
I know there over 30lbs lighter but don't aluminum heads have allot of sealing problems?

[mud.man.rj]

Installed with a Edelbrock head bolt kit and no sealing problems at all.