The Story Of A Cummins Suburban (Lots Of Pics)

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by LOW DOUGH

That wiper setup is awesome. I will have to remember this so I can do it. were did you put your reservoir? Do you have a pic of it? I also want to see the tall skiny mud tires on it.

The only place that was available to mount it was under the passenger side battery tray:

From post #23



It is not an ideal mounting spot, but hey, it is all there was. In all reality, it does not need to be readily available, but where mine is, I need a transmission funnel to fill it. Luckily, the reservoir is fairly decent sized so refills do not occur too often.

As for a pic of the reservoir, no, I do not have one. Speaking of reservoirs, I used that particular one because it HAD to fit under that battery tray. From the pic, it looks like there is a lot of room, but in actuallity, it is very crampt right there. While shopping the wrecking yards I found several that would have looked nice enough to put in a visible place, but would not work for me because of that damn intercooler. Older S10 trucks and some GM passenger cars have nice reservoirs with integral pumps in them. If a reservoir change is not desireable to you, an inline electric pump can be added in an inconspicuous place to reap the benefits of a motor driven pump instead of a piston pump, but still use the original reservoir.

The tall skinny mud tires have not happened yet. I am having difficulty putting together another set of the stock wheels of all things. I can find one or two but it seems like whenever I try to set something up everything goes awry. I will post pics as soon as I get them on.

[mosesburb]

Well, I finally got around to loading my interior pics. I had to convert my truck to bucket seats because where my motor got placed put the transmission shifter so far back that I had to widen the hole for the transfer case shifter for the transmission shifter to come through. That still would have worked with a bench seat, but the transfer case shifter was going to end up even farther back than that thus preventing the use of a bench seat.

So I started searching around and I found a full-factory-pimped '94 GMC Safari SLE van in a U-Steal-It yard down by work. This is no small task as I am guessing the price of the full-pimp factory unit was probably fairly close to the conversion van price because this was the only loaded factory-stock one that I found in a sea of conversion vans. This particular van had a power driver's bucket seat, manual passenger bucket, manual bucket seats for the second row (both have adjustment levers for fore/aft seat position, recline, and integral armrests), and a bench seat for the thrid row (this also has an adjustment lever for fore/aft seat position, the left and right side of the seat have integral armrests and recline with the center of the seat folding down to become a cup holder/armrest type apparatus).

Now, I did not want power seats. I do not move the seat around enough to ever want to deal with a non-functioning power seat ever again, and the front seats were pretty worn/sun faded. I got to looking at the second row seats (buckets) and really liked what I saw. They were very dirty and had typical kid type bio-hazards going on, but I thought they would clean up enough to use. I grabbed the two second row seats to use as my front seats. I got them home and started checking them out and started liking them even more. Did I mention it was half off day and I got them for less than $35.00 for the pair?? Yeah it was a sweet deal that day. Anyways I got to thinking that my second row seat was just as bad as my front seat and I should have grabbed the third row seat out of the Safari van to use as my second row seat. I waited a week and went back and it was still there and nobody had used it as a rag to clean their hands on. I got it and the integral seatbelts for under forty bones. I wanted to use the quick release mechanism for my second row seat, but it was not going to work with the frame rail spacing of the Sub. Oh well, I sawed the "hooks" off of the bottom and welded some flat plate to the brackets and converted it to a bolt-in seat.

Here are some pics:



I have a manual trans column to go in it now.





For the front seat belts I used assemblies out of a '97 Chevy regular cab truck. I wanted to use assembliles out of a Tahoe or Suburban, but all of the ones I found were crap.



Now, the only difference between regular cab and Tahoe/Suburban seatbelt assemblies is the black tab has a plastic covering with the Tahoe/Suburban units. These belts I got were like brand new. They were in pristine condition and definitely were not being worn when the truck they came from got crashed.



Now, I have seatbelts with shoulder harnesses for every position in the truck and Generous Motors was kind enough to give provisions to bolt up the shoulder straps, but the hole they gave was not typical compared to late-model vehicles. Instead of being 1/2-13(ish) or metric, they are 7/16-20. Swell. The shoulder belts all attached with a shouldered bolt in their original application, but they are all larger than 7/16". Hmm, what to do. I measured the hole in the rear shoulder belt mountings and found it to be about .625". Ok, for a mock-up I need a bushing with a 7/16" bore and a 5/8" od. I must have something that will work around here...I did. The caliper mounting bolt sleeve from 1/2-3/4T trucks (and a bazillion GM passenger cars also) just happens to have the needed specs. Sweet, I get them mocked up and decide I want something a bit stouter than the caliper guide pin sleeve. I call Russ's 24hr Machine Svc and describe this "top-hat" looking thing with x diameter for the brim and y diameter for the cylinder above the brim and a 7/16 hole through it (I love it when something can be accurately described over the phone). He whips up several of them and they work out perfectly. My theory was the sleeve could use some stability by adding a shoulder to it:



Ok, so I have some stout bushings to mount the shoulder harnesses to the body, now I just need some bolts. Hmm, 7/16-20 about an inch long with as thin of a head as possible.....exactly my thought as well--flywheel bolts for a Mark IV big block/first gen SBC!! They worked out perfect!! Thin head that the covers fit nicely over and long enough to engage all of the provided threads in the body.



The flooring I used was the Auto Custom Carpet heavy duty molded vinyl kit. I followed their instructions about laying it out before working with it. I put it in the truck and it looked good until I started trying to fit it to the truck. It went to hell in a handbasket real quick. What looked good to start with ended up looking horrid once I got it "fitted" if it can be described like that. Now, I have installed several factory GM rubber floor coverings and I thought those fit bad---nooo, those fit like gloves compared to this clump of crap. I was thouroughly dissappointed. I was working with this stuff in summer when the ambient temp is just a fuzz under the surface temp of the sun and I still couldn't get this thing to lay out right. I ended up trying to fit it with a heat gun and glue, but it undid everything I did in a matter of 24hrs. I finally said screw it (literally) and made a couple strategic relief cuts, then glued and screwed the pieces together. It looks sorta ok at best, but I would not use one again, that is for sure.

Anyways, this is just my opinion and I am sure someone somewhere had good luck with their product, just not me.

That is all for today. There is more to come, so stay tuned.

[FRENCHBLUE72]

Totally awesome man sucks that the rubber mat did not fit but even then it looks pretty good in the pics..

[MickMc]

I know this a lame question, but I'm looking for an easy answer and I'm acting lazy...How did you wire the washer pump? and I assume you kept the factory switch? I'm just mounted my external washer bottle with internal pump (GM) and now I need to finish the wiring connections. Any Help?


Mick

Love the Burb, would like to check it out next this spring when I'm back in Phoenix...

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by FRENCHBLUE72

Totally awesome man sucks that the rubber mat did not fit but even then it looks pretty good in the pics..

Thanks!! Yeah, the areas shown look approximately decent, but there are a few areas that look horrible. To this day the stuff will not lay out right.

Originally Posted by MickMc

I know this a lame question, but I'm looking for an easy answer and I'm acting lazy...How did you wire the washer pump? and I assume you kept the factory switch? I'm just mounted my external washer bottle with internal pump (GM) and now I need to finish the wiring connections. Any Help?

Yes, I kept the factory switch. You just have to take the connector off of your washer pump that is behind the dash and extend the wires through the firewall out to where you mounted your reservoir. How you get them out there is up to you. I was lucky as I could incorporate them into my harness and bulkhead connector as I was building it. The only problem I had was I planned to put the reservoir/pump asm on the driver side, but I ended up having to put it on the passenger side so I had to extend the wires to get them over there.

Originally Posted by MickMc

Love the Burb, would like to check it out next this spring when I'm back in Phoenix...

Let me know when you will be here and we'll see if we can meet up.

[MickMc]

OK
Of the three wire which run the pump?

How did you actually wire it?

I'll let you know when I'm going to be in town, usually spring, first week of May.


Mick

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by MickMc

OK
Of the three wire which run the pump?

Honestly, I do not remember. I had so much wire going through my mind when I did it that I do not remember the specifics. There is a connector that attaches directly to the pump that has the two wires that you need. I can not see the wiper motor or pump behind my dash because of so much added equipment and the re-routing of the duct hoses for conversion equipment and I can't see the pump under the battery tray because it is hidden by the reservoir (the pump mounts in the side of the reservoir that mounts to the truck so it is hidden). Yellow and light blue wires ring a bell, but do not quote me on that.

Originally Posted by MickMc

How did you actually wire it?

Wherever the two wires originate from, instead of making wires that go to the pump, I made wires that go to the bulkhead connector so they could pass through and go out into the engine compartment.

Originally Posted by MickMc

I'll let you know when I'm going to be in town, usually spring, first week of May.

Sounds good.

[Ackattack]

Wow man, WOW! Just finished reading this whole build thread.

I've been talking to my wife about building a cummins powered suburban after I finish my 68, and tonight before we went out to eat I told her I was reading about my "burb.

Makes me want one so bad now. I think I'd do a few things slightly different (just personal taste) but you've defiantly done a top quality build.

Also reading this, I kinda see what I'm in for and also makes me consider the Duramax a little more (assuming fitment is easier) the other bonus is the 6 speed alison tranny that I'd like to have.

Again awesome build!

[MrBeast]

I am impressed with your setup, that tie rod is nice and beefy, just curious though why didnt you go for a high steer setup?

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by Ackattack

Wow man, WOW! Just finished reading this whole build thread.

I've been talking to my wife about building a cummins powered suburban after I finish my 68, and tonight before we went out to eat I told her I was reading about my "burb.

Makes me want one so bad now. I think I'd do a few things slightly different (just personal taste) but you've defiantly done a top quality build.

Also reading this, I kinda see what I'm in for and also makes me consider the Duramax a little more (assuming fitment is easier) the other bonus is the 6 speed alison tranny that I'd like to have.

Again awesome build!

Thanks!! I'm not too sure a Duramax would be easier--maybe, but you end up with an electronic diesel which, in my opinion, negates much of the benefit of the conversion. Cool?? Yes, but I don't have the appreciation for the electronic units. The bomb-proof simplicity of the mechanical diesel is what swayed me to do this conversion.

Originally Posted by MrBeast

I am impressed with your setup, that tie rod is nice and beefy, just curious though why didnt you go for a high steer setup?

Thank you. As for the no high-steer there are two reasons. The first is it seems that the guys who have high steer break knuckles more frequently than low steer guys. Might not be relevant, but it seems to be. Also, I am not rock crawling with this thing so I really do not have the need for it. But the second and most important reason is I have an eleven quart oil pan in the way of a crossover draglink. High steer arms and tie rod--not a problem, but no room for the draglink without some real funky bends in it. Also, this truck drives great in the stock configuration, so I am inclined to stick with it. I did consider it though.

[mosesburb]

Last weekend the machine went on its first road trip. We went up north, about 135mi to a friends house in the middle of nowhere at about 7200' elevation. The Cummins ran great. I pulled the 7% grades at 75mph with throttle to spare. Had great weather going up. To get to his place you have to look for mile marker number something, then go half mile past, look for a locked Forest Service gate, unlock, re-lock, then you have a 1.5mi linear mud bog to get to a 10% grade, pull that and poof, you have arrived.

Going in:



It was real muddy. I learned last time that this mud is like super epoxy. Whatever it gets on, it stays on--clothes, shoes, trucks, anything. nasty stuff.

Near the end we picked up enough elevation and there was enough shade that the road was still frozen:



I did some work on his carburetor and had some fun for a few days, then it was time to leave. As we finished packing up, the snow flurries started. Just barely enough to be able to see. As we got to his property line a couple hundred yards away, the flakes got bigger:



By the time we got out to the gate, the flakes were getting larger:



By the time I got the gate unlocked, re-locked and unlocked my hubs, the flakes were pretty huge:



A few miles down the road we were seeing this:



A couple miles after that the road turned into this:



Shortly after that, the road turned into this:



I talked to my buddy today and right now they have four feet of snow on the ground and another storm coming in Tuesday night.

All in all it was a great long weekend. I learned that the Cummins does not appreciate being awakened below 32deg. I did get it started, but it did not want to. It was running on approximately two cylinders and dragging the other four along for the ride until I threw the grid heater switch and almost immediately it smoothed out and would run without my foot holding the throttle on the floor.

As far as the drive goes everything was great. My windshield washer setup (pushbutton auto detailer) was fantastic. I used it many times and except for when it was frozen solid, it was great. The truck drove great overall. The ONLY issue I have with it is a driveline-type vibration at 60-65 under power and 65+ under power but significantly less powerful. Also I learned that I can not coast down a hill over 65--under 65--fine, over 65--BAAAADDD!! I can either float or power down the hill but I can not coast or a horrible constant frequency harmonic vibration resonates throughout the entire truck (in or out of gear). I have tried different driveline angles, pinion angles, lowered the t/case, replaced some spring bushings, re-torqued every fastener I can find and nothing changes. I am going to have the driveline balance re-checked. I highly doubt that to be the issue as I have never had the slightest problem with any driveline that I have had done by the guy who did this one for twenty or so years. I hope someting is wrong with it just so I can be done with this, but I am not holding my breath.

Other than that it was a very enjoyable drive and fun to see this thing out in the woods finally.

[LOW DOUGH]

That's neat that your friends property is way out there in the midle of no where. Also neat to see the burb get out on a road trip and go out in the woods. That's some fun times!

I love your burb and want to see more pics of it. Got any of it out in the woods?

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by LOW DOUGH

I love your burb and want to see more pics of it. Got any of it out in the woods?

It looks like this is the best I can do:

[MrBeast]

You know what would be perfect would be a PTO or a clutch diriving a hydraulic setup so you could have a 10 or 12,000 lb hydraulic winch on the truck.

Either way though, every time I look at the damn thing it makes me smile.

[Sub71]

Check your pinion bearing and your transfer case output bearings to see if that is your vibration. The noise that happens when coasting could be slack in your ring and pinion.

Nice burb, good luck!

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by LOW DOUGH

That's neat that your friends property is way out there in the midle of no where. Also neat to see the burb get out on a road trip and go out in the woods. That's some fun times!

I love your burb and want to see more pics of it. Got any of it out in the woods?

Thanks. I do not know if I got the WHOLE truck in any pics (lots of pics of the hood). I'll take a look.

Originally Posted by MrBeast

You know what would be perfect would be a PTO or a clutch diriving a hydraulic setup so you could have a 10 or 12,000 lb hydraulic winch on the truck.

Yeah, that would fit the image of this thing now wouldn't it??

Originally Posted by MrBeast

Either way though, every time I look at the damn thing it makes me smile.

Haha, yeah, me too. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Sub71

Check your pinion bearing and your transfer case output bearings to see if that is your vibration. The noise that happens when coasting could be slack in your ring and pinion.

Well, that is part of the difficulty as every bearing in the transmission, transfer case and rear axle are brand new. The backlash on the ring and pinion was well within spec before (and after) I did the bearings.

Originally Posted by Sub71

Nice burb, good luck!

Thank you!!

[LOW DOUGH]

Good Pic! Thanks... got to get my fix on this thing.

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by LOW DOUGH

Good Pic! Thanks... got to get my fix on this thing.

Glad I could help. Read on, there are a few more....

[mosesburb]

Well, with some help from some friends, I FINALLY got my BFG Mud tires on. A big thanks goes out to Jason4x4 from CK5, who not only found the last wheels that I needed, but also mounted and balanced them for me on his lunch hour. I would not have thought that finding what has to be the most common eight lug steel wheel on the planet would be so difficult, but every time I had something set up, it went to hell in a handbasket. Either the wheels were wrong or the person flaked out or, or, or...Jeez.

Anyways, I took a nice drive down to his place of employment with my wheels and tires and he put them all together. I brought them home and had to put them on as I was too anxious to see how it looked and also to see if my vibration would go away (more the latter, but I did want to see what it looked like).

So, without further delay: (It was overcast today so the pics aren't as bright as the should be)




A front view:



Now with the ever timeless hub caps:



So, all in all I like the look of it. It changed the entire image of the truck. The unfortunate thing is it also changed how it drives. The truck definitely has to be DRIVEN now. Not quite NASCAR sawing at the wheel, but it definitely requires attention going down the road.

So, now for the question you all are wondering about: Did the vibration go away??














Wait for it....





















Nope. Nothing changed. The vibration is still alive and well. I guess that rules out the tires/wheels/balancing from the equation.

Damn. Thanks again Jason!!

[RED72blazer]

it's late and I'm in trouble. But it was worth reading the whole thing. I love your writing style. Great build!

[jbclassix]

Does your vibration rattle your teeth out? I have seen this before! Believe it or not, a bent cage on a wheel bearing was the cause!

[Rush4x4]

A front view:



Now with the ever timeless hub caps:



That is quite possibly THE COOLEST SUBURBAN ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET! I wanted to do the same thing, and now I want to even more. Still, I don't have the skills you do, yet. Awesome work!

By the way, if you just wanted to walk around, taking pictures from all angles: inside, outside, upside, and down; so guys like me could short circuit their laptops with drool, that'd be okay with me.

Really awesome truck!

[71swb4x4]

Fantastic build!! You have some great talent.
What has your mileage been lately?

[83GMCK2500]

Awesome build! Way to build a great looking & performing Suburban. EXCELLENT!!!

So, details on those steel wheels and BfGs?

[mosesburb]

Originally Posted by RED72blazer

it's late and I'm in trouble. But it was worth reading the whole thing. I love your writing style. Great build!

Thank you!! I'm glad you enjoyed it--especially after you invested that much time into it .

Originally Posted by jbclassix

Does your vibration rattle your teeth out? I have seen this before! Believe it or not, a bent cage on a wheel bearing was the cause!

No rattle in my teeth. It is a DEEP harmonic vibration. It feels like every piece of metal is trying to explode simultaneously. It is like the harmonic vibration meets up with the natural frequency of the metal and at that point the vibration goes nuts.

Originally Posted by 71swb4x4

Fantastic build!! You have some great talent.
What has your mileage been lately?

Thank you!! Mileage in town averages right at 18mpg. I have gotten a best of 19.5 and ironically, that was in summer with the A/C on. The worst I have gotten in town is 15.5, but that was driving it like I stole it. The 18mpg is VERY repeatable. On the road trip last month I averaged 14.5mpg. The reason it is so bad is because the gears are so deep and the motor spins much faster than it should. If I can get the engine speed down at 65-75mph, then the mileage should go up significantly.

Originally Posted by 83GMCK2500

Awesome build! Way to build a great looking & performing Suburban. EXCELLENT!!!

Thank you!! Yeah, when you want a Cummins and don't care for Dodges, there is only one way to go I guess.

Originally Posted by 83GMCK2500

So, details on those steel wheels and BfGs?

The wheels are stock GM 16 x 6.5" steel wheels that were available on a bazillion GM trucks troughout the 70's and 80's. The tires are somewhat strange though. They are 255 85 R16 BFG M/T KM's. The size is what drew me to them as I was able to use them on a 6.5" wheel. The dimensions come out to be about 33 x 10. This was perfect--tall and skinny, ready to go on my "old man" wheels. They went on, but even with the hubcaps, the truck lost the "old man" image. That image is gone, but I think it still looks cool, just in a different way.