aluminum heads - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

68w/sbc406 · 02-14-2005, 09:42 PM

i have a question and i am going to give all the info i have, which isnt much since i got the info from my dad (who doesnt know much about motors) who got it from the guy selling them.
he is selling a used set of aluminum ZZ4 heads. the combustion chamber is 58cc and the valves are 194/155 and they have a maximum valve lift of 525.
he is asking 500 bucks for them. one is that a good price and second what are ZZ4? would these work with my 406, i know i would have to have the seam holes drilled, and he said that they are center bolt valve covers, which would mean that i need valve covers and an intake. i know that my current heads are 74 cc and i believe the valves are 202/160 (stock 73 heads for a 400) i am sure that if i were to get these heads i would get a better cam too. any info would help.
thanks
Ben

Custom 68 · 02-14-2005, 10:08 PM

I would think that would be a good deal. I would be very interested in them! As far as them working that would be a pretty big jump in compression but I dont know if they would work or not?
Do they use the old style intake? Not vortec?
Thanks
Dave

Dean23 · 02-14-2005, 10:15 PM

Sounds like a great deal I'd jump on that. Depending on what pistons you have you could see a huge jump in compression. which you may or may not want. If you arte around 9.:1 now you could end up being close to 11:1. which is hard to run on pump gas. On the good side you could go with a bigger cam etc. Yu could always buy them and sell them as a profit as well

*Randy70C-10* · 02-14-2005, 10:20 PM

These heads will use the old style intake, not the Vortec style (intake bolts go straight down on vortecs). 58cc will bump your compression quite a bit, and will also put your valves closer to the piston. Make sure that your pistons are recessed to clear those valves!!

rustyold72 · 02-14-2005, 10:39 PM

Also with aluminum heads, generally they allow about a 1 point bump in CR due to the heat sink ability of the aluminum.
BTW a ZZ4 is one of GMs hi performance crate engines.
A sometimes cheaper alternative to the ZZ4 heads are heads from a TPI Vette, pretty close to the same specs as a ZZ4 head

Custom 68 · 02-14-2005, 10:42 PM

I also believe these have 1.94/1.5 valves. I have a Vette TPI and was looking for a set (cheap) of the ones Rustyold72 mentioned.

wessscott · 02-14-2005, 10:55 PM

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpart...on=ep#12556463
You can find all the info at the above link. That price is a steal, they sale for about $470.00 each.

68w/sbc406 · 02-14-2005, 11:01 PM

thanks for the info. as far as th pistons i am pretty sure there is room (pic attached) one thing that kinda worries me is putting that much more on the top end, will it blow the bottom end out? i did a half a$$ed rebuild, replaced the main and conecting rod bearings, but didnt pull the pistons out. there was no lip at the top and you could still see honeing marks in the cylinder walls. all the bearing gaps where with in specs. now for the valve size, it is smaller than stock, is that made up by the amount of valve lift there is? thanks for all the help
Ben

*Randy70C-10* · 02-14-2005, 11:11 PM

You bottom end should be fine. The 1:94 valves are actually better for low-end torque plus you'll be gaining compression, but I thought the ZZ-4 have 202 intake valves, my ZZ-3 does.

rustyold72 · 02-14-2005, 11:19 PM

Not only the lift, but the flow rate of those heads is better than the 73 400 heads, IIRC one of the big mags did a comparison test that included the ZZ4 heads, and while out flowed by the big $$$ aftermarket heads, they flowed well enough to rate a best bang for the buck rating, so I don't think they'll have any problem feeding your 406.
Don't be too concerned about the half a$$ed rebuild, I've done several like that and had no probs

68w/sbc406 · 02-14-2005, 11:28 PM

so it looks like i am buying a set of zz4 heads at the end of march. next what would be a good cam for this set up?

jhow66 · 02-14-2005, 11:40 PM

Call one of the cam manuf. and tell them what you have. They will match you a cam for what you want to use the engine for.

rustyold72 · 02-14-2005, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhow66

Call one of the cam manuf. and tell them what you have. They will match you a cam for what you want to use the engine for.

Although you may be on hold for a while, at least I was calling Comp Cams

68w/sbc406 · 02-15-2005, 12:21 AM

who is a good cam company, all i know is crane and comp

68w/sbc406 · 02-15-2005, 10:19 AM

ttt before work

danho · 02-15-2005, 11:10 AM

I have always been partial to Comp Cams, but there's Crane, Lunati, Edelbrock. Those are the ones I would look at for a street build.
Dan.

neonlarry · 02-15-2005, 06:42 PM

Don't forget to have steam holes drilled in those heads to match your 400 water jacket holes. Read this: http://www.trickflow.com/product/che...stallation.asp

68w/sbc406 · 02-15-2005, 09:06 PM

thats a good page neonlarry, i knew about the steam holes and was planning on letting a shop do that for me. shouldnt be too much

wessscott · 02-16-2005, 07:53 PM

If I remember correctly the springs are good to 544 max lift only. So watch what size cam and roller rocker ratio you go with. 1.5 roller rockers versus 1.6 can make a big difference.

68w/sbc406 · 02-16-2005, 09:48 PM

thats what i was looking into today, he has the roller cam that he took out of the motor the heads are on and he would sell that to me too. the specs are L-474i, 510e D-208i, 221e. and he put 1.6 roller rockers on it but is taking them off for his next set of heads and is giving me the stock rockers for these heads, which i am not sure of the specs of.

68w/sbc406 · 03-28-2005, 11:48 PM

well i forgot the price on these when i talked to him today and said 400, and he said OK!!! i am picking them up tomorrow

Dean23 · 03-28-2005, 11:56 PM

you are getting a great deal. You will love those heads and the extra power you get from them.

GMan69 · 03-29-2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68w/sbc406

thats what i was looking into today, he has the roller cam that he took out of the motor the heads are on and he would sell that to me too. the specs are L-474i, 510e D-208i, 221e. and he put 1.6 roller rockers on it but is taking them off for his next set of heads and is giving me the stock rockers for these heads, which i am not sure of the specs of.

I believe your engine block would need some modification ($$$) before you could use that roller cam. Of course, you're getting such a screamin' deal on those heads, you could probably afford it! Nice score!

68w/sbc406 · 03-29-2005, 01:49 AM

why would the block need mods? wouldnt i just put the roller lifters in and put the retainers that hold the roller in the right position and then push rods, roller rockers and i am good, right? no block work needed. i am not buying the cam as it is smaller than what i have, just courious

SCOTI · 03-29-2005, 12:50 PM

You'll need a cam button of some sort to prevent the cam from 'walking' (shifting fore/aft within the block). Your current flat tappet cam is ground so that the lifters rotation keep the cam from walking, roller cams aren't ground for this.

Also, if your driving this on the street, watch your static & dynamic compression ratios or you'll have to run on super unleaded.

02-14-2005, 10:08 PM	#2
Custom 68 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 2,930	I would think that would be a good deal. I would be very interested in them! As far as them working that would be a pretty big jump in compression but I dont know if they would work or not? Do they use the old style intake? Not vortec? Thanks Dave __________________ Dave 1968 Custom Chevy with turbo charged 5.3 gen III 4l80e swap 1967-71 GMC 3/4 ton long step 4x4 (not sure what year exactly?) "A good friend will bail you out of jail...but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "that was frekin awesome". "If it doesn't fit force it...If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway!"

02-14-2005, 10:15 PM	#3
Dean23 68cst_ss490 Join Date: May 2001 Location: edmonton,canada Posts: 1,363	Sounds like a great deal I'd jump on that. Depending on what pistons you have you could see a huge jump in compression. which you may or may not want. If you arte around 9.:1 now you could end up being close to 11:1. which is hard to run on pump gas. On the good side you could go with a bigger cam etc. Yu could always buy them and sell them as a profit as well __________________ Dean edmonton,canada a winter wonderland 2005 Chevrolet Avalanche LT cold air intake, performance exhaust, Comp cams cam, jba shorty ceramic headers. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3090973

02-14-2005, 10:39 PM	#5
rustyold72 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Ark City KS Posts: 505	Also with aluminum heads, generally they allow about a 1 point bump in CR due to the heat sink ability of the aluminum. BTW a ZZ4 is one of GMs hi performance crate engines. A sometimes cheaper alternative to the ZZ4 heads are heads from a TPI Vette, pretty close to the same specs as a ZZ4 head __________________ 71 Chevy C10 "The Rust Bucket" 72 Chevy C10 apart in the garage 02 WS6 T/A Fast Black and bad@$$ 93 Nissan Pathfinder "Emily" Totaled RIP girl 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee-HEMI powered 87 Iroc Z28 305 TPI auto (crying out for an LS1 swap)

02-14-2005, 10:42 PM	#6
Custom 68 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 2,930	I also believe these have 1.94/1.5 valves. I have a Vette TPI and was looking for a set (cheap) of the ones Rustyold72 mentioned. __________________ Dave 1968 Custom Chevy with turbo charged 5.3 gen III 4l80e swap 1967-71 GMC 3/4 ton long step 4x4 (not sure what year exactly?) "A good friend will bail you out of jail...but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "that was frekin awesome". "If it doesn't fit force it...If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway!"

02-14-2005, 11:01 PM	#8
68w/sbc406 Got Light Emitting Diode? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Newberg, OR Posts: 2,485	thanks for the info. as far as th pistons i am pretty sure there is room (pic attached) one thing that kinda worries me is putting that much more on the top end, will it blow the bottom end out? i did a half a$$ed rebuild, replaced the main and conecting rod bearings, but didnt pull the pistons out. there was no lip at the top and you could still see honeing marks in the cylinder walls. all the bearing gaps where with in specs. now for the valve size, it is smaller than stock, is that made up by the amount of valve lift there is? thanks for all the help Ben Attached Images __________________ 1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's(the family car) 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler

02-14-2005, 09:42 PM	#1
68w/sbc406 Got Light Emitting Diode? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Newberg, OR Posts: 2,485	aluminum heads i have a question and i am going to give all the info i have, which isnt much since i got the info from my dad (who doesnt know much about motors) who got it from the guy selling them. he is selling a used set of aluminum ZZ4 heads. the combustion chamber is 58cc and the valves are 194/155 and they have a maximum valve lift of 525. he is asking 500 bucks for them. one is that a good price and second what are ZZ4? would these work with my 406, i know i would have to have the seam holes drilled, and he said that they are center bolt valve covers, which would mean that i need valve covers and an intake. i know that my current heads are 74 cc and i believe the valves are 202/160 (stock 73 heads for a 400) i am sure that if i were to get these heads i would get a better cam too. any info would help. thanks Ben __________________ 1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's(the family car) 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler

02-14-2005, 10:20 PM	#4
Randy70C-10 Account Suspended Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Virginia Beach, Va. U.S.A. Posts: 15,320	These heads will use the old style intake, not the Vortec style (intake bolts go straight down on vortecs). 58cc will bump your compression quite a bit, and will also put your valves closer to the piston. Make sure that your pistons are recessed to clear those valves!!

02-14-2005, 10:55 PM	#7
wessscott Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 41	http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpart...on=ep#12556463 You can find all the info at the above link. That price is a steal, they sale for about $470.00 each.

02-14-2005, 11:11 PM	#9
Randy70C-10 Account Suspended Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Virginia Beach, Va. U.S.A. Posts: 15,320	You bottom end should be fine. The 1:94 valves are actually better for low-end torque plus you'll be gaining compression, but I thought the ZZ-4 have 202 intake valves, my ZZ-3 does.

02-14-2005, 11:19 PM	#10
rustyold72 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Ark City KS Posts: 505	Not only the lift, but the flow rate of those heads is better than the 73 400 heads, IIRC one of the big mags did a comparison test that included the ZZ4 heads, and while out flowed by the big $$$ aftermarket heads, they flowed well enough to rate a best bang for the buck rating, so I don't think they'll have any problem feeding your 406. Don't be too concerned about the half a$$ed rebuild, I've done several like that and had no probs __________________ 71 Chevy C10 "The Rust Bucket" 72 Chevy C10 apart in the garage 02 WS6 T/A Fast Black and bad@$$ 93 Nissan Pathfinder "Emily" Totaled RIP girl 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee-HEMI powered 87 Iroc Z28 305 TPI auto (crying out for an LS1 swap)

02-14-2005, 11:28 PM	#11
68w/sbc406 Got Light Emitting Diode? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Newberg, OR Posts: 2,485	so it looks like i am buying a set of zz4 heads at the end of march. next what would be a good cam for this set up? __________________ 1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's(the family car) 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler

02-14-2005, 11:40 PM	#12
jhow66 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Knoxville Tenn. Posts: 3,058	Call one of the cam manuf. and tell them what you have. They will match you a cam for what you want to use the engine for. __________________ 56 Chevy Bel-Air 2dr. HT (purchased new) 71 Chevy Cheyenne SWB PU (502HO) 65 GMC short bed step--work in progress and my gofer

02-15-2005, 12:21 AM	#14
68w/sbc406 Got Light Emitting Diode? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Newberg, OR Posts: 2,485	who is a good cam company, all i know is crane and comp __________________ 1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's(the family car) 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler

02-15-2005, 10:19 AM	#15
68w/sbc406 Got Light Emitting Diode? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Newberg, OR Posts: 2,485	ttt before work __________________ 1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's(the family car) 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler

02-15-2005, 11:10 AM	#16
danho Pesemistic Optimist Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Prineville, Oregon Posts: 227	I have always been partial to Comp Cams, but there's Crane, Lunati, Edelbrock. Those are the ones I would look at for a street build. Dan. __________________ 1972 K20 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper- 4" lift & 35's, built TH350 and 355. Daily driver resto in progress. 1999 Yukon Denali- Wife's ride, hands off.



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02-15-2005, 06:42 PM	#17
neonlarry Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Vacaville, CA Posts: 2,746	Don't forget to have steam holes drilled in those heads to match your 400 water jacket holes. Read this: http://www.trickflow.com/product/che...stallation.asp __________________ 70 C/10 Light Red 350/TH350, HEI, Duals w/40 series Flows, 91 seat, LED taillights 99 Pontiac S/C GTP, SLP Ram Air hood, GMPP Konis & springs 95 Neon ACR, MP PCM, AFX UDP, 3.0 CAI

02-15-2005, 09:06 PM	#18
68w/sbc406 Got Light Emitting Diode? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Newberg, OR Posts: 2,485	thats a good page neonlarry, i knew about the steam holes and was planning on letting a shop do that for me. shouldnt be too much __________________ 1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's(the family car) 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler

02-16-2005, 07:53 PM	#19
wessscott Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 41	If I remember correctly the springs are good to 544 max lift only. So watch what size cam and roller rocker ratio you go with. 1.5 roller rockers versus 1.6 can make a big difference.

02-16-2005, 09:48 PM	#20
68w/sbc406 Got Light Emitting Diode? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Newberg, OR Posts: 2,485	thats what i was looking into today, he has the roller cam that he took out of the motor the heads are on and he would sell that to me too. the specs are L-474i, 510e D-208i, 221e. and he put 1.6 roller rockers on it but is taking them off for his next set of heads and is giving me the stock rockers for these heads, which i am not sure of the specs of. __________________ 1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's(the family car) 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler

03-28-2005, 11:48 PM	#21
68w/sbc406 Got Light Emitting Diode? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Newberg, OR Posts: 2,485	well i forgot the price on these when i talked to him today and said 400, and he said OK!!! i am picking them up tomorrow __________________ 1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's(the family car) 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler

03-28-2005, 11:56 PM	#22
Dean23 68cst_ss490 Join Date: May 2001 Location: edmonton,canada Posts: 1,363	you are getting a great deal. You will love those heads and the extra power you get from them. __________________ Dean edmonton,canada a winter wonderland 2005 Chevrolet Avalanche LT cold air intake, performance exhaust, Comp cams cam, jba shorty ceramic headers. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3090973

03-29-2005, 01:49 AM	#24
68w/sbc406 Got Light Emitting Diode? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Newberg, OR Posts: 2,485	why would the block need mods? wouldnt i just put the roller lifters in and put the retainers that hold the roller in the right position and then push rods, roller rockers and i am good, right? no block work needed. i am not buying the cam as it is smaller than what i have, just courious __________________ 1968 1/2 ton 2wd lwb 6 lug disc and bags up front. Next c notch and rear bags '02 Chevy Silverado LT ext cab short bed 2WD 5/7 drop on 22's(the family car) 1993 Cherokee work ride/weekend wheeler

03-29-2005, 12:50 PM	#25
SCOTI Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: DALLAS,TX Posts: 21,911	You'll need a cam button of some sort to prevent the cam from 'walking' (shifting fore/aft within the block). Your current flat tappet cam is ground so that the lifters rotation keep the cam from walking, roller cams aren't ground for this. Also, if your driving this on the street, watch your static & dynamic compression ratios or you'll *have* to run on super unleaded. __________________ 67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... *Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.* Last edited by SCOTI; 03-29-2005 at 12:53 PM.

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