Questions about an inherited '72 project

[Steve1954]

HI, I am new to the forum. I joined primarily because a friend inherited what they thought was a '69 Chevy 4X4 "project". The previous owner passed away and so is not available to answer questions about exactly what he has done.
The current state is what I would call disorganized to be polite. For example:
The frame is in the driveway with 4X4 transmission, drive shaft, rear end and wheels. It has been painted but I can see some rust peaking through.
The bed is off and next to it. It is not painted, has rust and needs metal work.
The cab is in the garage and has been painted. Fenders are there but not painted. Motor is also there.
I wanted to help them out so I began examining and started with the VIN. It is located on the door panel but it is not a '69.
It shows as a '72 3/4 ton 4X2. Which raised more questions because that frame in the yard is definitely a 4X4 with a T221 transfer case.
I checked the frame for a partial VIN to see if at least the year matched, but can't find it. Supposed to be on right side top near steering gear box or right side mid frame. I am guessing is has been painted over.

I would hate to be the person to tell them to haul it to the scrap yard as there is still some emotional attachment to "dads truck" (and we all love old trucks) however, no one in the family seems to have a passion for the kind of work necessary to restore it. So i am trying to determine the best resolution.

I have many questions - is there glass, seats, instruments, chrome - but the one that seems important at the moment is:
It seems to me that having a mismatched cab and frame is significant.
How big a deal is it that the VIN says 4X2 and the frame is obviously 4X4?
What if the frame turns out to be from a different year? Does the '72 cab require a '72 frame?

After reading this, you will probably be thinking something along the lines of
"Son, you are well over your head here. Your best option is to run."
Yep, that is true. But I have to take a shot at it anyway.
And you will be thinking "Yep. I knew you would say that"

Thanks in advance

[cypressbog]

First off, WELCOME!!!

Post a picture of the frame. There are experts here that will be able to tell what year range it is. That will give you a place to start. A 72 cab doesn't need a 72 frame.

[Steve1954]

Originally Posted by cypressbog

First off, WELCOME!!!

Post a picture of the frame. There are experts here that will be able to tell what year range it is. That will give you a place to start. A 72 cab doesn't need a 72 frame.

Thanks for the welcome.
I am very relieved that the year does not need a specific match up - I will have to ask for pictures.
Are there specific areas of the frame I should focus on? Front/ Rear/ Mid/ Left side or Right?

[GMC Canuck]

I would think the first thing you need to find out is if you have a clean title for the truck. I think you would need the title to match the vin on the cab door post.

[clay68c10]

The frame partial VINs are on the left (drivers side) frame rail. Top of frame rail by the steering box and middle of the frame under the cab floor.

Welcome and it sounds like an interesting truck.

[RPBurris]

If you suspect this is a later frame (73-87 or so) look on the passenger side frame rail below the door. Everything depends on what the family wants. Purists will say never mix frames and anything after that is just a hodge podge of parts. But it really depends on what the owner wants. If in the end you still have a cool truck and that's all you want then I say finish it. If having a truck that is not as it rolled from the factory is not what you want then put it on C-list. You can find "projects" on there all day long with similar stories just like this one. Good luck and definitely post some pics. It will be easy to tell from that if the frame is at least the correct year range.

[Steve1954]

Originally Posted by GMC Canuck

I would think the first thing you need to find out is if you have a clean title for the truck. I think you would need the title to match the vin on the cab door post.

Thank you,
Yes, this is also a concern because the title they thought went to that truck was for an '84 (alarm bells going off).
Apparently it was taken in barter for some farm work. So, I've asked to contact the other party to see if they have the title.
If that does not work out, then I guess a trip to DMV (apply money) is next to see who title is with and whether it is a salvage title or something else. And then (apply more money) to get the title clear.
I would bet that I would have to apply money to clear the title to even take it to a salvage yard.
I am sure it varies from state to state but if you have any suggestions, pile on.
If nothing else, it is an interesting project for retirement

Update: I am assured by the owner that they had the title last summer - so it is a matter of finding it and checking the vin,

[Steve1954]

Originally Posted by RPBurris

If you suspect this is a later frame (73-87 or so) look on the passenger side frame rail below the door. Everything depends on what the family wants. Purists will say never mix frames and anything after that is just a hodge podge of parts. But it really depends on what the owner wants. If in the end you still have a cool truck and that's all you want then I say finish it. If having a truck that is not as it rolled from the factory is not what you want then put it on C-list. You can find "projects" on there all day long with similar stories just like this one. Good luck and definitely post some pics. It will be easy to tell from that if the frame is at least the correct year range.

I should have pics shortly. Appreciate your comments. Would not say they are purist. They just like trucks and would like to have the garage back.
Examole: Last fall, the '94 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 wasn't working. They said it needed a new alternator. So, I scratched my head, got my multimeter, and looked at it and no battery. Looked in the garage and there was a battery on the floor and saw a really nice battery charger in the garage. Went to hook up the charger and was told it did not work. So, I hooked it up anyway and it worked fine. Half hour later, put the battery in the truck and hooked up the side mounted screw terminals and that positive one just would not tighten. Looked at it - threads stripped. Bought a $5 terminal at Auto Zone and miracles of miracles, I fixed an alternator, battery, and a battery charger for $5. Never even got to use the multimeter.
There is a '76 Sierra back in there but I am still evaluating it and it is another story for another day.

I probably should keep a journal and write a book

[Steve1954]

Originally Posted by clay68c10

The frame partial VINs are on the left (drivers side) frame rail. Top of frame rail by the steering box and middle of the frame under the cab floor.

Welcome and it sounds like an interesting truck.

Thank you,
I actually knew that - what I forgot was my left from my right - LOL.
I have been researching and have a pretty good idea of where it should be, just hesitant to start sanding off paint I guess.

[Steve1954]

A few posters above said someone might be able to determine if this is a '72 chevy pickup frame, or maybe the approximate year.
Photos of frame are attached
(please don't be from a 1964 Massey Ferguson MF 185)
Did I mention that it was yellow?

[El Dorado Jim]

Hi Steve, and welcome..that frame is a 69 or 70 frame,since it looks like it has front drum brakes, it would be a 71 or 72 if it had front disc brakes, it is a dana 44 front end with an eaton rearend, it isnt a np 205 trans case either...looks like a dana 20...correct for 69-70...if it has a current title who cares if the cab says 4x2...build it and have a nice truck, nice that it is a 3/4 ton frame and axles, and dont haul it to a scrapyard, there are plenty of guys on this forum that would buy the rolling chassis right now,alot of guys want to convert their trucks to 4x4, and all the rest of the parts are in demand too, you just have to pay the $25.00 fee to be a paid member to sell things on the forum

[midniteblues]

Looks like a good start to a nice 3/4 ton project....but yellow?

For the most part 67-72 parts all work together as far as cabs and beds.
Fenders,grills and core supports are important to get the correct peices so everything matches.

Be sure the cab has a high hump to fit over the trans. A set of 3/4 ton cab mounts and four guys and set the cab back on.
Peice it together then pull it all apart for refinishing.

[Steve1954]

Originally Posted by El Dorado Jim

Hi Steve, and welcome..that frame is a 69 or 70 frame,since it looks like it has front drum brakes, it would be a 71 or 72 if it had front disc brakes, it is a dana 44 front end with an eaton rearend, it isnt a np 205 trans case either...looks like a dana 20...correct for 69-70...if it has a current title who cares if the cab says 4x2...build it and have a nice truck, nice that it is a 3/4 ton frame and axles, and dont haul it to a scrapyard, there are plenty of guys on this forum that would buy the rolling chassis right now,alot of guys want to convert their trucks to 4x4, and all the rest of the parts are in demand too, you just have to pay the $25.00 fee to be a paid member to sell things on the forum

Thank you,
That bit of information actually brightened my day a bunch.
The transfer case has a metal tag - Rockwell T221 N 7, Serial Number 02690216.
Transmission has "GM1" "C249" "3901131".
I've googled Rockwell T221 N 7 and found the T221 was used up to '69. No specific reference for "N 7".
The best I have come up with on the trans is possibly a Muncie SM465 which stated in light trucks in 1968 and went to 1991.

I read the forum rules about selling and understand the $25 fee - which is very reasonable.

[Steve1954]

Originally Posted by midniteblues

Looks like a good start to a nice 3/4 ton project....but yellow?

For the most part 67-72 parts all work together as far as cabs and beds.
Fenders,grills and core supports are important to get the correct peices so everything matches.

Be sure the cab has a high hump to fit over the trans. A set of 3/4 ton cab mounts and four guys and set the cab back on.
Peice it together then pull it all apart for refinishing.

Thank you
I am going to get a clip board and start cleaning out that area and make an inventory next week. They say the cab mounts are in there but I will feel better when i have actually put my hands on what is there and get it organized.

[kwmech]

I'm leaning towards the frame being a 68 maayybee a 69. No later than that

[cypressbog]

Looks to be a keeper for sure. Paint that sucker black and start assembly.

[El Dorado Jim]

Originally Posted by Steve1954

Thank you,
That bit of information actually brightened my day a bunch.
The transfer case has a metal tag - Rockwell T221 N 7, Serial Number 02690216.
Transmission has "GM1" "C249" "3901131".
I've googled Rockwell T221 N 7 and found the T221 was used up to '69. No specific reference for "N 7".
The best I have come up with on the trans is possibly a Muncie SM465 which stated in light trucks in 1968 and went to 1991.

I read the forum rules about selling and understand the $25 fee - which is very reasonable.

Im not familiar with the rockwell t-cases, only dana 20 and 205 in the 67-72 trucks...yes your trans should be the sm465, gm started using them in 68, you can tell it is a sm465 if you push the shift lever away from you and down to put it in reverse, the sm420 you pull it towards you and down for reverse

[palallin]

That tranny/t-case combination is what my truck has. The set-up is pretty much bullet-proof.

[Steve1954]

and there are two engines back there that I have to suss out

[Moose Monkey]

Welcome, you are off to a great start.

[Steve1954]

My original questions seem to have been answered.
Summary:
How big a deal is it that the VIN says 4X2 and the frame is obviously 4X4?
What if the frame turns out to be from a different year? Does the '72 cab require a '72 frame?
I think the answer is:
a) if I am a purist, it would be important. I am not.
b) if the frame is a '67 to '72 frame, it will mechanically fit.
Consensus is that the frame is '68 or '69 (based on front drum brakes).
although the cab "hump" needs to fit over the transmissiona and transfer case
and there needs to be an opening in the floor board for the stick.
c) title needs to be resolved
d) the frame really needs to be painted something other than yellow however, since someone painted it yellow, it is probably important to be definitive so as not to end up with a pink frame.
Paint it black.

[El Dorado Jim]

another thing, if that frame has been sitting in the weather uncovered, the transmission is probably full of water and is junk...

[El Dorado Jim]

Originally Posted by Steve1954

My original questions seem to have been answered.
Summary:
How big a deal is it that the VIN says 4X2 and the frame is obviously 4X4?
What if the frame turns out to be from a different year? Does the '72 cab require a '72 frame?
I think the answer is:
a) if I am a purist, it would be important. I am not.
b) if the frame is a '67 to '72 frame, it will mechanically fit.
Consensus is that the frame is '68 or '69 (based on front drum brakes).
although the cab "hump" needs to fit over the transmissiona and transfer case
and there needs to be an opening in the floor board for the stick.
c) title needs to be resolved
d) the frame really needs to be painted something other than yellow however, since someone painted it yellow, it is probably important to be definitive so as not to end up with a pink frame.
Paint it black.

frame could be a 70 also, if the cab was from a 350,350 will probably not have a removable floor pan"hump" if it was from a truck with a t-400 trans should have the removable high hump,you can just cut the holes in it where you need them,,,if it has no removable hump, you will need to cut the floor and use a high hump from a donor truck...and use nutserts to bolt it down, I have had to do this...

[Steve1954]

Originally Posted by El Dorado Jim

another thing, if that frame has been sitting in the weather uncovered, the transmission is probably full of water and is junk...

oh . . . you noticed that - hehehe - yea, you might say I have some concern about tranny, tans case, differential, and steering gear box.

I could not figure out why the gentleman did not pull the trans - he has engine stands and a hoist. Just have to work with what is there and check them out as I go.

I appreciate your concerns - keep piling them on. LOL

[Steve1954]

Originally Posted by El Dorado Jim

frame could be a 70 also, if the cab was from a 350,350 will probably not have a removable floor pan"hump" if it was from a truck with a t-400 trans should have the removable high hump,you can just cut the holes in it where you need them,,,if it has no removable hump, you will need to cut the floor and use a high hump from a donor truck...and use nutserts to bolt it down, I have had to do this...

Cab was in the back and hard to get to last time I was there. It did not occur to me look for a "hole" in the floor board. But this fella could cut and weld and has a good bit of steel about. And he painted the cab the same yellow. If I was him, I would have made sure the hole for the shift stick was in the floor before I painted it. I'll check it out next week and report back.