Member BAT bad deal

[DeadheadNM]

I recently purchased a set of "NOS" black door panels from member BAT (sale thread here: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=643835 ), which turned out to be used rather than NOS. The pics below show wear in keeping with previous installation with re-bent (and broken - not shown) trim brads on one panel indicating trim removal. Cost was $250 plus $43 shipping.

These are an excellent set of used panels but are not NOS. Had BAT correctly represented as used rather than NOS I would not have purchased them. In fact, I had a similarly nice used set at the time, which I listed and sold after purchasing the misrepresented set from member BAT.

Trying to keep acrimony off of the forum I requested via email but was refused a full refund of my purchase price as the panels were misrepresented as NOS. I offered to ship these back to him at his cost or to another member were someone else to purchase these. Member BAT (Barry) has offered to refund shipping only.

[DeadheadNM]

More of the install wear:

[DeadheadNM]

I recently sold a used tilt column to a member who felt I should have disclosed more about the condition of the column than I did. I wasn't trying to misrepresent the column and I immediately offered to refund his full amount and pay return shipping. He decided to keep the column. To me, integrity matters more than a few bucks.

Here is one reply I received from BAT:

"We'll I described them based on what I knew and saw. You didn't ask any questions so I really don't feel I misrepresented them. Tell you what, I will refund the shipping amount.

Barry A. TXXXXy"

As for integrity, member BAT just deleted his for sale thread linked above. I kept a screen shot to document his original post.

BAT why did you delete your original for sale thread and will you refund my money please?

[DeadheadNM]

Thank you to forum moderators who restored the deleted for sale thread linked in the first post.

[mx289]

Sorry to see this Pete.

I would think you are deserved a full refund.Those door panels are most cetainly not NOS parts.They are definetly a used part.

I think some guys here dont know or forget what NOS is.

New Old Stock,means it's NEVER been used !

Hope this gets sorted out for you.

[teeitup]

This sucks Pete, some guys get confused when stating NOS and OEM, there is a couple others on the parts board that claim their parts are NOS and they are selling OEM. Wish you luck, Randy

[Liz]

That is simply not acceptable. If he sold you parts as NOS that were used, then a full refund or account removal is in order. It is called fraud. I sent a PM to the user to respond here. Thanks

[DeadheadNM]

Tom and Randy, thanks for the good words. Won't let a bad apple spoil the good will and good community we enjoy here.

[DeadheadNM]

Originally Posted by Liz

That is simply not acceptable. If he sold you parts as NOS that were used, then a full refund or account removal is in order. It is called fraud. I sent a PM to the user to respond here. Thanks

Thanks for the help Liz!

[N2TRUX]

Its unfortunate that the term NOS has become abused so badly. I have several searches running on ebay for NOS items, and unscrupulous sellers will tag items as NOS yet in the description state that its "like" new. New is new, and NOS is NOS. There is no gray area.
This is clearly a misrepresentation of the item sold and a full refund should be given, or a deal offered to discount the used panels and a partial refund offered if the buyer is agreeable.

[Lee H]

Sorry this happen. I was miffed at myself for missing these panels.

[DeadheadNM]

Thanks guys! As Randy mentions, I can understand that mistakes happen and some folks may not understand what NOS actually describes. That the member refuses to work out a mutually agreeable solution (ex. re-list and sell as excellent but used and I can ship to new owner) is the most disappointing aspect. It's just not right. Sadly, I'll stop gifting money via PP to all but those respected sellers here with a long history (teeitup, tkorinek, classicheartbeat, etc....), which is to say stop trusting.

[Ol Blue K20]

This sucks Pete, I have dealt with you and many others on this site. Some of which you already mentioned, I have had great dealings so far. But this sucks and he should make this right. You shouldn't have to ask questions to find out they weren't new....Best of luck on getting it straightened out

[Liz]

I did pm, and direct the seller here. I have not heard back since this reply, so I am taking it as he would like his account removed fully at this time. Sorry I could not help you get a resolution.

Originally Posted by BAT

This is childish, in not goin to fees in to his garbage, I offered to resolve and he made demands and was a jerk. Delete my account if you have to, I don't need this garbage.

[Cash3481]

Sorry to see this Pete!
Good luck clearing things up.

[DeadheadNM]

It's bad enough he misrepresented the panels now he is misrepresenting myself. I want the members and Liz to know I treated him courteously and have provided a transcript of our entire correspondence below (combo of PMs and emails). My only "demand" was a refund.

Me:
These panels, while nice, have clearly been installed and are not NOS as advertised. They're not much better than the set I just sold ( http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=6854554 ) after purchasing yours in fact. I would like a full refund please and will gladly post pics to the original post that show the wear from installation. Had I known these were not NOS and had been installed I would never have purchased them. Pete

BAT:
I can offer that that is the way the were sold to me and that I never installed them, they were jsut sitting in the box since received.

Can you do me a favor and send me a pic of what you are referring to? I am just trying to understand and if in fact not as advertised of course I will send you a refund.

Barry

Me:
Barry - would you prefer I email them? If not will post to thread. Pete

BAT:
Pleas (sic) do, btXXXXY@aol.com.

I honestly don't understand, I even looked closely at the openings for window crank and door handle to verify no wear/never mounted and did not see any at all. If they were used I would see wear at these spots.

Me:
Pics sent - let me know what you think. Don't get me wrong, the panels are excellent - just used. Pete

Me (emails now):
Hi Barry -
See attached photos. You can see the marks where the screw/ferrules were installed, wear marks with slight rust along the inner aspect of the armrest mounts, and re-bent metal brads on one panel that indicate the stainless trim had been removed.
The panels are in excellent condition but I already had such a set. I was willing to step up to NOS for a possible future build.
Thanks,
Pete

Me:
there may be a member willing to pay the same amount or close. If so, I can ship these from here to that member for you.

BAT:
Not sure what the first picture is, wouldn't you agree that with no wear on the window cranks that they were never used?

Me:

Barry:
That first pic shows indentations from the trim screw ferrules on each door placed side-by-side.
The pics attached on this email show the window crank area from the used black set I have here compared to one of your panels. There is essentially no wear on either. The panels were protected from wear by a plastic grommet between the crank and the panel. The wear happens if these grommets are not replaced after the cranks are removed. lack of wear here does not prove no use.
Pete

BAT:
We'll (sic) I described them based on what I knew and saw. You didn't ask any questions so I really don't feel I misrepresented them. Tell you what, I will refund the shipping amount.

Me:
You represented these as NOS panels. I'm sorry but that was incorrect and that is not my fault. I would like my entire amount refunded unless you have a NOS set of panels to exchange these for.

Bat:
I will refund your shipping

Me:
I'm glad to ship these back to you at your expense. I will have to seek redress through the forum unless you refund my full amount. I have no use for these used panels.

Bat:
My offer stands

[GASoline71]

I completely agree that a lot of cats just don't know that NOS mean an old UNUSED item/part that has sat on a shelf or in someoines garage/attic for a loooooong time and NEVER INSTALLED. Too many people believe that NOS means just an old part in DECENT condition.

Too bad you had to go through all that.

Gary

[special-K]

Some don't know what N.O.S. truly is. Some don't know we don't put up with any BS sellers here and give it a shot...once

[Sammy]

I have noticed the parts board in the past contained a unusually huge amount of postings of NOS parts. Really always had me thinking reproduction more than likely. Paying NOS price for a used or a overseas part would get my goat also. Maybe a sticky reminder on this issue on the parts board is in order?

[Liz]

Sammy, between that and folks paying by gift option. I do believe you are correct