Help with PO's chop...

[Anthony14]

Hi guys, looking for some advice/help. The PO had done a chop on my truck, so I had to take over. I fitted the doors to the cab and I got custom glass made and installed in the doors - that was tons of fun I had to undo 90% of what he had done. I just got around to reinstalling the doors onto the cab. The drivers side mounted very nice. Nice gaps all around, body lines etc... I mounted the passenger side and not the same story. The door skin matches the body lines and nice gaps all around but when you get to the top portion of the door it's way out. It's almost as though when he dropped the top he was just planning on bending the passenger door frame in to lineup again which of course you can't do - at least if you expect to have working windows lol. At one point the door sticks out even wider then the drip rail! So here's the question; I'm thinking at this point I have to cut the cab roof and almost move it over, something that's normally done and dose not look like he did but can't quite figure out where I should cut. I have to replace the A pillar on that side as well, because he just leaned it in. It sat under part of the windshield so he just cut it to make the windshield fit. I'm not sure if I should cut parallel with the length of the truck down the center of the roof and just try and "move" the passenger side half over, or cut somewhere else. Any ideas would be great. I attached some pictures that hopefully will make what I wrote make sense.

Cheers.

[Robznob11]

Im having a difficult time making heads or tails of the side ways pic...but it appears that the top of the driverside a piller is wider than the pass side. It looks pinched in at the top could you get away with making a vertical slice and then cut the top off where it meets the cab. Pull the outer edge out to match the door. And fill the gap? Just re thinking. Im not sure thats possible if the door is out further than the drip rail....😑

[hewittca]

Whew that is a lot of corrective work you have to do! My best advice is to scrap the cab and start with another. Just kidding (kinda). I'm not too familiar with the chopping process, so this may be a dumb question, but why does the drivers side line up fine when the passenger side does not? Is the whole roof skewed to one side after he chopped it? Just looking at it from an outside perspective, that would be my main concern first.

[harpo231]

Looks out of square , try to measure

[Overdriven]

I wish I could see where the cuts have been made for the top and the doors.

I see what Rob means about the A pillar, it does appear thinner on the passenger side. But it must be an optical illusion. If you look at pics 1 and 3, compare the amount of drip rail showing at the back of the cab to the window frame. It appears as if the window frame is not at the proper angle but if the window track is lined up and the window works then something else is wrong.

I'm curious how the doors were chopped and if the window track was modified as well. I've looked at c10 doors from the outside and the window frame appears welded to the door shell at the top of the door shell. Grind down those welds, modify the track inside the door and the door frame can be lowered into the door shell. If this was the method used the PO could've gotten the angle wrong. This method could also be used to correct the issue you have and it would be much easier than cutting the top down the middle and adding material.

[Robznob11]

Since it may be an optical illusion...I wonder...did he cut the top of that a piller completely off? Could it be the top is twisted inward?

[Overdriven]

After my previous post I was thinking about your issue more and how chops are done. Never done one myself but have seen plenty of tutorials and such. Viewed from the side, when you "chop" a section out of the A pillar and back of the cab you can't just lower the top back on and have everything line up. Line up the rear of the cab and the A pillars won't meet, the top portion of the A pillar will be much further to the rear. To make them line up you need to lengthen the roof. The alternative is cutting the A pillar near the roof then laying it back at a steeper angle.

Now view the cab from the front or the back. The sides of the cab aren't perfectly vertical, there is an angle just like the A pillar when viewed from the side. So when you chop a section out the middle of the window opening you're creating the same situation. The top will either need to be widened or the angle needs to change. If the window frames of the doors are at the correct angle then this would be the reason for your issue.

[Overdriven]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

Since it may be an optical illusion...I wonder...did he cut the top of that a piller completely off? Could it be the top is twisted inward?

I'd like to think the OP would've noticed something like the passenger A pillar being thinner or twisted.

Without seeing where the cuts were made on the top and the doors we're just stabbing in the dark as far as how the chop was done. We have no idea the amount of chop, if the roof was lengthened, if the A pillar was leaned back or some combination of the two.

I think my last post explains what could've happened pretty well. Given that the sides of the cab aren't at as severe an angle as the A pillar would also explain why the doors are off by about an inch. I bet the previous owner welded the driver's side back on first then forced the passenger side to line up as best as possible before welding without widening the top.

[Robznob11]

Yes i agree with you to an extent. The problem is that you dont know the PO's level of skill. I tought my self how to fab and jacked up alot of stuff in the beginning. The first lesson was on a rocker pannel replacement. I hung the door and lined up the rocker and fully welded it in...wondering why I had to pull it out so far to get it to match the door. I never cobsiderd adjusting the hinges to align the door or hanging the fender to make Sure the rocker was not out to far...after it was welded in....well now what? Cut it all out and start from scratch....the po may have done exactly as you said completely welded the drivers out of place not considering the other side😣

[LockDoc]

-
Flipity-flip....

LockDoc

[Overdriven]

Very true, we don't know the skill level of any involved. I think we've all been there learning as we go and having to correct mistakes. My biggest was replacing quarter panels on a 70 Dart. Full quarters weren't available, just the skins that barely go over the top of the quarter and I didn't want to go that high anyway. So I cut them above the wheel opening thinking I'd butt weld them like the I'd seen on tv. Halfway through the cut the panel just went wavy along the cut line. No way I could weld it back together so I soldiered on with the cut. Thought it was the electric shear I was using so tried a cutoff wheel on the other side with the same result. Wasn't about to throw out $700 worth of sheetmetal so I had to carefully push, pull and relief cut my now wavy brand new quarters as I stitched them on.

Back on topic, I'm curious about the windshield. OP says he got new door glass but doesn't mention the wondshield. If the A pillars have been leaned back a stock windshield may still work.

[Anthony14]

Thanks LockDoc for flipping the pictures!

Overdriven, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think the PO lined up the drivers side and welded it all together without checking the passenger side. Drivers side does line up good so can't say he did a bad job there.

I was looking at the roof and it doesn't appear he widened it at all to compensate for the chop. It looks like when he got to the passenger side he just moved the A-pillar to fit.

For the windshield, I had to get a new one and chop it myself - I couldn't find anyone to try it haha. So after 2 windshields I managed to take 3" off the top with destroying it - has a small crack in each corner but will meet safety so I'm happy with that When I test fitted the windshield it laid down perfectly on the drivers side and A-pillar area, but when it came to the passenger side it was resting on top of the A-pillar and not where it should be; thus why it looks more narrow - because it somewhat is after he cut it for the windshield to rest into.

The glass in the doors are sized equally and operate correctly so I think the door are fine in terms of geometry, if they weren't the glass wouldn't fit or operate correctly. This being said it looks like I'm going to have to widen the top of the cab/roof to bring it over the door correctly.

[HO455]

Thanks to LockDoc for making the world right again. I am not convinced the PO didn't do something funky with the A pillar width on the drivers side. I would check the gaps between the inside of the door frames at the top and where the door seal would be. From the pictures it looks as if the tops of both doors have the equal amounts of drip rail hanging over the top of the door on the outside. That would mean the gaps on the inside should be the same. (Within a 1/8" or so!) There is something fishy going on. I would try and find someone that could drive a good truck over so you could compare them side by side. I bet 37 minutes with a second truck and a tape measure would get to the bottom of this mystery.

[Anthony14]

Originally Posted by HO455

Thanks to LockDoc for making the world right again. I am not convinced the PO didn't do something funky with the A pillar width on the drivers side. I would check the gaps between the inside of the door frames at the top and where the door seal would be. From the pictures it looks as if the tops of both doors have the equal amounts of drip rail hanging over the top of the door on the outside. That would mean the gaps on the inside should be the same. (Within a 1/8" or so!) There is something fishy going on. I would try and find someone that could drive a good truck over so you could compare them side by side. I bet 37 minutes with a second truck and a tape measure would get to the bottom of this mystery.

The drip rail on the drivers side overhangs the door by around a 1/2" or so. The passenger side has no overhang at all, and in places the door is further out then the drip rail...

[Anthony14]

Here's some pics from behind.... Notice the gaps where the weatherseal would install...

[Boog]

Bud I'm afraid you will put a lot of work into trying to make this puzzle fit near correct and still not get it to where you would be happy with it.
Every place you make a change will upset another area.
You can move the upper window frame inward some by bending it a little at a time. But I don't know that you can move it that much.
Unless you have nothing better to do your time could be better spent locating another complete cab and swapping them.
Oh and here you go.

[HO455]

That makes it much clearer. Not a job I would relish doing but if I wanted a challenge that few others would notice or appreciate the effort put into fixing it that would be it. I would have to have a second cab for a reference at the least. It's too easy to walk around the vehicle hundreds of times convincing yourself it looks good and in the light of day it turns out odd at best. If you can get more than one set of eyeballs on the project that can make a big difference. Maybe some photos front and rear from twenty feet away may help someone here see the way through this.
Good luck.

[Robznob11]

Honestly, I would not try and save it...by the time you get done you will wish you had just put the same time and effort into another cab. You could probably chop another cab correct in less time than it would take to save that one. You can even do it by laying the windshield back and use stock glass.

[GR8-68]

Just a picture tip, take the pics with your phone laid to the left, (volume button down) and it will post correctly everytime

[Anthony14]

Thanks guys, I'll see what I'm going to do... I've come so far and dumped so much time and money already into it I most likely couldn't bring myself to abandon it and go with a different cab. Sorry for the pics, I take them with my phone vertically but when post they turnout sideways...