lowered shortbeds on stock wheels?

[78chevstepside]

4/6 notched flipped 15x8 1" spacer

[1986swb]

Originally Posted by JohnC

Thanks, hopefully it will turn out as good as yours. I'm still debating on the flip kit though.

I looked at a bunch of options to do a mild drop for my truck, including doing a flip for the rear. Keep in mind the flip will drop your rear about 5" and you may have to trim the rear bumper stops. This is based on what I read and not through experience. If this is the case, you will probably need to drop the front end at between 3-3.5" to that both front and rear drops appear level.

If you noticed my 2.5" front drop and the 4" rear drop, they look pretty level. Even up close it looks pretty good and level. This set up has been done by many and it a proven combination -- without any issues to suspension or geometry. Like I mentioned earlier, the only thing I had to do was to cut away some of the bed support pieces to accomodate the taller drop shackles. I've read that some drop spindles of 3" had issues with caliper clearances but some minor grinding will resolve that issue.

You can also go with drop "A" arms which are good but you will need to spend some cash. I wanted to keep everything pretty stock looking so I reused my "A" arms and rebult them.

On that note, here's what $1000 looks like. Additionally, I included some pics of the taller shackles for your reference.

[JohnC]

Yeah I lowered my old 94 truck 2.5/4. This one though, I'm just not sure I like both ways. I won't go A-arms due to $$. From what I have seen on here, a lot of the guys that do the shackle/hanger route end up wanting lower. So I'm trying to take that into consideration. I'm real good about doing something, and then deciding something else later.

[Tony_SS]

Wow.. this thread is making me miss my ralleys!

[diponyou]

hey 86 swb your truck is looking sexy bro.
how did you get the back half cleaned up like that?
and what did you use to coat it?

[JohnC]

Originally Posted by Tony_SS

Wow.. this thread is making me miss my ralleys!

I know. This is really making it a tough decision between 20's, and keeping my rally wheels.

[STOCKISH]

I'll help you John. Buy the 20s and send me the Ralley's. Anything I can do to help a friend you know.

[low86c10]

Originally Posted by JohnC

I know. This is really making it a tough decision between 20's, and keeping my rally wheels.

to be totally honest you cant beat rallys, i tried my buddies 20" TT 2's on my truck and i thought they made it ride like ****, i guess because of the smaller tires, and $1500+ no thanks lol

[JohnC]

Originally Posted by 1972SuperCheyenne

I'll help you John. Buy the 20s and send me the Ralley's. Anything I can do to help a friend you know.

How about you send me your Coy's and I'll send you my ralley's

I really like the ralley wheel, but man those 20" Coy's just look sweet!

[BGRAFX]

here's what $1000 looks like.....Where did you get all the parts for that price?

[1986swb]

Originally Posted by diponyou

hey 86 swb your truck is looking sexy bro.
how did you get the back half cleaned up like that?
and what did you use to coat it?

Sorry for the delayed reply. Just been busy at work and stuff. To answer your question, I used the following spray can paints: Duplicolor Primer (DE1612) & Low-Gloss Black (DE1634). Quick and easy to apply, and these paints are very durable. They are also high temp. paints (up to 500 degrees F) which is overkill but .... Just make sure you prep surfaces really good first before laying down the paint. What was really a savior was using one of those paint can spray triggers that you attach to the top of the paint can. This little tool allows you to spray paint from the can like a gun rather than pressing down on the can nozzle vertically. Cheap tool for just under $5. I hope this makes sense.

Here's some additional pics.

[1986swb]

Originally Posted by BGRAFX

here's what $1000 looks like.....Where did you get all the parts for that price?

To qualify the $1000 purchase, I bought the majority of my parts from Classic Parts of America when they had their 10% off sale plus free shipping. However, I did reuse my A-arms, front coil springs, front sway bar, rear leaf springs. They are shown in the pic repainted and installed with the new bushings.

[1986swb]

Here's an updated after pic with the new suspension and Magnaflow exhaust. Sorry but you can only see the Magnaflow tips.

I'm looking at installing a larger diameter front sway bar as well as a new rear sway bar. And maybe some rear traction bars (nice thing is that they will be hidden from view). I'll post some pics when they are done. But next up is installing the new OEM-ish black interior .... Current interior color is red/burgundy. Nothing wrong with the interior. In fact, the interior is near mint, with the exception of a little fading on the tops of both door panels.

[CLASSIC87']

Subscribing... great thread... and some real nice trucks!

[Tony_SS]

Originally Posted by JohnC

I know. This is really making it a tough decision between 20's, and keeping my rally wheels.

I've done the 20's thing... My acceleration and brakes were sacrificed in the process for a 'look'. I sold them, and never went back!

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Tony_SS

I've done the 20's thing... My acceleration and brakes were sacrificed in the process for a 'look'. I sold them, and never went back!

How so?
20" cast wheels @ 29" diameter vs. 15" steel wheels @ 29" diameter should have very similar centrifical forces @ speed (similar weights & diameters).

[Tony_SS]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

How so?
20" cast wheels @ 29" diameter vs. 15" steel wheels @ 29" diameter should have very similar centrifical forces @ speed (similar weights & diameters).

It's where the weight of the wheel is. Moving that weight out just an inch from center changes everything. 2.5" out from center effects even more. And if the 20" wheel/tire weighs more than the 15" wheel/tire, the negative effects are even more.

Its the same with brakes. Going from a 10.75" rotor to a 12" rotor increases braking ability tremendously. The little changes make a big difference in performance.

I like the looks of 20's. I just don't like the sacrifice that goes with them.

[69BBsuburban]

Stock wheels never go out of style...nice to see so many trucks with 'em....
Rarely do I like a truck with 20"+ wheels....

Here's my pile.....

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Tony_SS

It's where the weight of the wheel is. Moving that weight out just an inch from center changes everything. 2.5" out from center effects even more. And if the 20" wheel/tire weighs more than the 15" wheel/tire, the negative effects are even more.

Its the same with brakes. Going from a 10.75" rotor to a 12" rotor increases braking ability tremendously. The little changes make a big difference in performance.

I like the looks of 20's. I just don't like the sacrifice that goes with them.

That's just it... if that 20" cast wheel weighs more than the steel wheel. That 20" wheel can be purchased in a lighter forged wheel & will allow larger brakes too (which I know you know ).

I weighed mine & was suprised how similar the over-all weights were between the 20" Coys & 15x8" steelies (again, similar pkg. diameters despite the difference in wheel diameters). Yes, that weight can be farther from the center-point but I doubt many actually scale the two choices for accurate analysis.

[69BBsuburban]

My ol '80 on Rally's.....3/5 drop...

[Tony_SS]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

That's just it... if that 20" cast wheel weighs more than the steel wheel. That 20" wheel can be purchased in a lighter forged wheel & will allow larger brakes too (which I know you know ).

I weighed mine & was suprised how similar the over-all weights were between the 20" Coys & 15x8" steelies (again, similar pkg. diameters despite the difference in wheel diameters). Yes, that weight can be farther from the center-point but I doubt many actually scale the two choices for accurate analysis.

Even if the weight of the wheels are the same, it's where the weight is. Larger wheels have the weight moved further away from the centerforce, thus requiring more energy to start and stop. Some notice it, others dont. I sure did when I ran 20's.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Tony_SS

Even if the weight of the wheels are the same, it's where the weight is. Larger wheels have the weight moved further away from the centerforce, thus requiring more energy to start and stop. Some notice it, others dont. I sure did when I ran 20's.

Your right, it's where the weight is.

That's also true for the tires.... The 20" wheel has weight further out vs. the 15" wheel. The 15" tire has more shoulder & weight further out vs. the 20" tire w/the shorter sidewall. You indicate you could feel it.... I sure couldn't in my truck.

I'm not saying your wrong. I will however challenge the broad statement that there's a significant impact on acceleration & braking when there's not been a breakdown of the equipment to determine the actual weights.

[Tony_SS]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

That's also true for the tires.... The 20" wheel has weight further out vs. the 15" wheel. The 15" tire has more shoulder & weight further out vs. the 20" tire w/the shorter sidewall. You indicate you could feel it.... I sure couldn't in my truck.

You have to take into account the wheel and tire mounted as a whole. The rotational mass is greater around the edge of a 20" wheel/tire than a 15", thus is takes more energy to accelerate and decelerate the 20" wheel.
Here, read this:
http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35886

Some highlights are:

Lighter is better, but the more important factor is Moment of Inertia, which changes based on the square (I = kmr squared) of the radius. If two wheels have the same weight, but one has a radius 1" (15" to 17") bigger, the MOI of the bigger wheel will be nearly 30% higher. MOI is a continuum (MOI can be calculated at any place along the radius, to get the total MOI of a rotating disk requires integration), but since most wheels concentrate the bulk of their weight along the outside (the hoops that hold the tire), MOI calculated at the outside edge is a decent approximation.

The best visual aid I have ever seen to explain it is this. Take a hammer, hold your hand as close as you can next to the head of the hammer and rotate your wrist. It will spin very easy. Then place your hand farther away from the head of the hammer and try to rotate it. The farther you move your have away, the harder it is to spin. No change in mass, but a huge change in the amount of power it takes to rotate it. This also applies to stopping it as well.

So, for example, if you have a wheel that is 30 lbs, but most of its weight is near the center, it will spin easier than a 20lb wheel that has most of its weight on the out edge. So its not just about total weight, but also where the majority of the mass is located.

Then multiply that by 4, and you see how easily a larger dia wheel can affect things.

[atopper]

Originally Posted by Tony_SS

You have to take into account the wheel and tire mounted as a whole. The rotational mass is greater around the edge of a 20" wheel/tire than a 15", thus is takes more energy to accelerate and decelerate the 20" wheel.
Here, read this:
http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35886

Some highlights are:

energy = gasoline and brakes , ask me how i know haha

[SCOTI]

I've read all that stuff too. Maybe you don't understand I'm considering the weight of everything (dissimilar material weights). What I read was a broad statement.....

I've done the 20's thing... My acceleration and brakes were sacrificed in the process for a 'look'....

Two wheels of the same materials & design but w/different diameters? Yes, I agree w/the rotational mass being greater w/o question. But, change the materials & design of each adding the weight of the tires sidewall into the equation & that statement warrants challange before assuming it's 100% correct.

Again, I agree w/your statement when it's an apples to apples comparison (15x8" steelies vs. 20x8" steelies). But if the materials are different (15x8" steelie vs. 20x8" aluminum wheel) there is a mathmatical difference. To me that has to be calculated & not just assumed.