Engine oil?

[chipflyer]

This is the ZDDP additive that I am currently using.

http://www.zddplus.com/

[kcjones]

Awesome answer 70rs/ss - I'd also add that you should look at the simple part of this, too: the "W" in any oil is meant as a viscosity rating for "winter" conditions. For people in CA, AZ, TX, etc, we should probably always run straight 20,30,or 40 weight oil, not 10W30. I'm sure you're all way beyond this simple thing, but I go to my parts store and am in line behind guys getting 15W40...in California! It never drops below 50 degrees F, so we don't need the low "winter" viscosity.

[kcjones]

The second 1 cent I have: pennzoil sucks. Just something I heard at the Mopar garage I worked at..guys said they could tell when a Quaker State/Pennzoil car came it by the color and breakdown detectable by eye in the oil being changed.

[Redneck-Mafia]

Ok, my turn...

I have always used and continue to, 50 weight racing oil and an additive.

My uncle owned a used car lot and he impressed upon me that unless you live in a VERY cold climate, a straight 30, 40, 50 60 weight is best. I used to use whatever was popular in the 80's (Slick 50, Duralube - had I only known!) but now use Lucas oil stabilizer.

To throw you an opposite opinion, when I worked at Nationwise auto parts in Marietta Georgia (that's right, the one across the street from the Big Chicken!), a guy used to come in all the time that worked at the Ford assembly plant and drove old Mustangs, he told me he used diesel oil because you want the "slicker than snot" slickest stuff you can for engines and diesel oil is thicker than any conventional motor oil.

I found a huge article at http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html
WOW! completely shoots the food coloring out of all additives.
This doesn't cover stabilizers though!

[70rs/ss]

Originally Posted by Redneck-Mafia

Ok, my turn...

I have always used and continue to, 50 weight racing oil and an additive.

My uncle owned a used car lot and he impressed upon me that unless you live in a VERY cold climate, a straight 30, 40, 50 60 weight is best. I used to use whatever was popular in the 80's (Slick 50, Duralube - had I only known!) but now use Lucas oil stabilizer.

To throw you an opposite opinion, when I worked at Nationwise auto parts in Marietta Georgia (that's right, the one across the street from the Big Chicken!), a guy used to come in all the time that worked at the Ford assembly plant and drove old Mustangs, he told me he used diesel oil because you want the "slicker than snot" slickest stuff you can for engines and diesel oil is thicker than any conventional motor oil.

I found a huge article at http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html
WOW! completely shoots the food coloring out of all additives.
This doesn't cover stabilizers though!

But and this is a huge BUT, oil formulations changed in 2004 or 2005 to reduce the ZDDP in oil as it contaminated catalitic converters, the OE manufacturers forced oil companies (EPA helped too as th cats plugged it hurt the environment as well as zinc and phosphorus being burned up and released into the atmosphere is bad news) to lowed the ZDDP in oil so the OE's wouldn't have to replace Cats under the federally mandated 100k mile warrenty. So what I, you, uncle, Bubba, whatever used to use, changed in 04 or 05. BUT most guys are hard headed and creatures of habit, which means they continue to do as thay have always done without realizing the package may be the same, but the API cert of SM or SL definately means the ZDDP level is now 6-8$ when it used to be 15-20% in the good ole days. The can of ZDDP stuff up top is the stuff, as well as the GM EOS I attached above, both add quite a bit of ZDDP to the SM and SL oil for out older vehicles, as well as the other oils, Brad Penn, Joe Gibss, abd the Castrol Syntec 20W50 for older vehicles (those are the only 3 oils I know of with decent levels of ZDDP) Yes, diesels have cats too so they even changed the diesel oil, so none of the stuff anyone used to use is any good as far as ZDDP is concerned. I hope that clears it up, not trying to be rude or anything, but most folks (me included until I read and read and finally got it) don't seem to understand the oil companies chaned your favorite oil into an oil that'll kill your "ancient" flat tappet motor!

[70 net440]

Hey, kcjones, maybe in your part of Cali it never gets below 50 but up here, we get single digits in winter. Oh, yea in summer we get triple digits.

[TXRANGER]

Not wanting to totally hijack the thread. I have a question. On my 71 it has the original 350 with around 200,000 miles on it. I was told that I should use one of the Lucas products to help the leak. What oils do you guys think I should use and does the Lucas product help?

[justcuz]

How much ZDP does gear oil or ATF have in it? I would be more apt to add 8 to 16 ounces of this to my oil before any additive.

[passthebuck]

Here's more fuel for the fire:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136052

[Ace in the hole]

I'll add this additive (or oil if you want it that way) to the discussion - http://www.motorheadoil.com/

[justcuz]

Originally Posted by justcuz

How much ZDP does gear oil or ATF have in it? I would be more apt to add 8 to 16 ounces of this to my oil before any additive.

Since Motorhead product only requires one once, I repeat my question and use some info from the Redneck Mafia post from the Ferrari aticle which says that at operating temp 75 w gear oil has the same vicosity as motor oil. So have they removed ZDDP from gear oil or ATF? If not whats wrong with using it as an additive to increase the ZDDP in your engine oil?

I have to disagree with some of his theories though about flow and pressure. He is representing his opinion as a Medical Dr and his knowlege about the vascular system in the human body. An engine with fixed diameter passages is a different animal.

What he is describing in changing vicosity is simply allowing for better lubrication at startup, based on his theory that all oils have the same viscosity at operating temperature. Additionaly he is suggesting some oils lubricate better than others and you have to change them to find what works best for your application.

An interesting read, but does raise more questions than answers IMO and he does not address the ZDDP issue at all except to say the newer oils are better than the ones that come before them. We know based on industry info that is not true from a ZDDP standpoint.

[Ole Blue 68]

I use Royal Purple 20W50. I think it's good stuff plus they're right around the corner from me and I like to support my local businesses.

Also, if anyone caught last week's episode of Horsepower they did a special on cheap ways to increaese your engine's power. They tested this PX3 Oil Booster (http://www.px3lubricants.com/) and found that it had indeed boosted HP and Torque numbers on the dyno. I haven't used it yet but plan to use it with my next oil change. You use 1 quart of the PX3 in place of a quart of oil.

[70rs/ss]

Originally Posted by Ole Blue 68

I use Royal Purple 20W50. I think it's good stuff plus they're right around the corner from me and I like to support my local businesses.

Also, if anyone caught last week's episode of Horsepower they did a special on cheap ways to increaese your engine's power. They tested this PX3 Oil Booster (http://www.px3lubricants.com/) and found that it had indeed boosted HP and Torque numbers on the dyno. I haven't used it yet but plan to use it with my next oil change. You use 1 quart of the PX3 in place of a quart of oil.

I just looked at my Royal Purple 20W50 bottle and it too meets the sl rating which means it is a low ZDDP product. Most oils (all except those made specifically for early models and will say not for use in 74 and later with cats) are made for use in late model engines with cats, therefore they must meet the API SM designation and therefore very little Zink and Phosphorus.


As to the gear oil and trans fluid, I do not know, but I would not run trans fluid at all in my oil as it is a detergent and can make oil loose it's lubrication properties, gear oil is formulated for another application (gears) not motors, with an additive only being $10 a bottle, why would you experiment with gear oil, trans fluid etc??? For a savings of $3-5 I wouldn't risk destroying an engine. Castrol sells an oil formulated for early engines, ask your local retailer to carry it or mail order it from Summit, Jegs or from Castrol direct, or use API/SM and add the ZDDP additives or the GM EOS additive all of the additives are about $10-12 a bottle and well worth the extra $$$$ to prevent early engine, cam, lifter etc failures, right?!

[Inthuwind]

This is an older thread, but what the heck-could someone advise the top 5 oils for break in procedures? And, is an additive necessary for break in? I guess I'm still confused-lol.

[prg machine]

I am way more confued now than ever before.

[chipflyer]

Go to your local John Deere Dealership, they sell oil that is labeled "Engine Break in oil" It comes in any new tractor and is to be used after any tractor engine rebuild and has plenty of Zinc in it to properly break in our cams. Been using it for years in small block chevy's and have had great luck. It is a great product.
It is specifically made for engine break in.

Jeff

[70cst]

70 net440...very good thread. My truck should be complete this fall and the engine oil to be used in my rebuilt motor is of interest to me.

[Gray Ghost]

Tried and true for the last 30 years on rebuilds or new motors....I have used the same oil and the same break in procedure for each motor.

I use Castrol oil in everything we drive and during first break in I follow the same procedure. Before the valve covers go on I put a pint of GM EOS assembly lube down each side making sure to cover all moving parts visible in the valvetrain. Last but certainly not least, manually turn the distributor shaft to pre-oil the motor. Kicking it over with the dizzy in doesn't work [damhikt]. Install the dizzy and you are ready.

I run the new motor at 1500 rpm for a few minutes [usually 9-10] to break the cam in. Once this step is complete and the engine is running good, I shut it down and immediately change the oil. Check for metal flakes in the filter or in the oil. I change the oil and filter and you are ready to break it in on the road!

Lot's of wive's tails on oil on the web....after talking to mechanics and truckheads all over the US, my experience has been Castrol is the most recommended oil brand.

[skchevota]

I run penn grade( brad penn) hd30 breakin oil at first start, and a bottle of comp cams breakin additive if it is a flat tappet cam. After that I use valvaline , or moble 1 depending on the engine. If you are building an engine, your best bet is to reto in a roller cam. a few hundered extra now and a lot less heartache later. Plus you dont have to start it up and rev the wee out of it for the first 1/2 hour.

[Inthuwind]

Great info, thanks. I have a Comp Cams Extreme Energy268 cam already in. Just need a good break in oil.

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by chipflyer

Go to your local John Deere Dealership, they sell oil that is labeled "Engine Break in oil" It comes in any new tractor and is to be used after any tractor engine rebuild and has plenty of Zinc in it to properly break in our cams. Been using it for years in small block chevy's and have had great luck. It is a great product.
It is specifically made for engine break in.

Jeff

Thats good info... Thanks for sharing. What do you use for every day use?
s/t

[chipflyer]

Thats good info... Thanks for sharing. What do you use for every day use?

I also like Castrol after break in but I always add a bottle of the Zddp additive shown at the top of the page also. Add a bottle of that to any modern name brand oil and you will be good to go.

Jeff

[Old Chevy Mech]

I use Amsoil 10W-40 Extended oil Change in the same 350 since 1993. I change my filters every 6-7 months and oil every 25K miles. The Blazer has been my daily driver for 20+ years, in 93 I had a 350 rebuilt to certain specs and have run Amsoil in it since then. The engine has 265,000 miles on it to date and was pulled out last summer due to excessive oil leaking. I replaced every gasket & seal and put her back in. Inside the engine was spotless. The only thing "extensive " I did was new valve seals and de-carboned the heads. The engine to date leaks more then it uses, so for me I swear by 100% pure synthetics. The Harley, Wifes car, sons car and C-20 run on Amsoil as well. They get oil changes annually. Back when I started with Amsoil, I was friends with a guy who owned and operated a small fleet of charter buses to transport shipyard workers from rural areas to work evvery day. He ran Amsoil in his fleet and never changed the oil unless the sampling report told him to do so, or 1,000,000 miles which ever came first. That was his story and I figured I would follow suit, so for the first 10 years all I changed was the filters. I change it more frequently now, but not before the 25,000 mile frequency. To each his own, I have had no trouble with this, so it stands as it is for what its worth.

Frank

[Inthuwind]

My Harley's on synthetic too, and about to change over to Amsoil.

[Old Chevy Mech]

Originally Posted by Inthuwind

My Harley's on synthetic too, and about to change over to Amsoil.

I can honestly say that my Hawg runs alot better since switching over. I'll never go back. The best thing is yoiu can use their 20W-50 in the transmission and primary. Finally 1 oil for all 3 areas!!


Frank