It’s time to decide on suspension and leaning toward air

[Slowguy]

I’m about to start purchasing suspension components and I’ve always wanted an adjustable air ride system but I’m having the decision making blues. I’m unsure as all the research I’ve done has conflicting info or not exactly what I want.

I don’t want to do anything to the stock bed floor height. Even if that means it won’t go as low.

I don’t want the air components all over mounted in the bed itself. I assume this means I have to rig up mounts beneath the frame rail?

I’m unsure what front control arm stuff I need, if I just add bags to the front without doing anything else, does this mean in the lowered position my camber will be way out of whack?

I think I can just notch the frame in the rear because....if I’m not raising the bed floor it won’t matter? Where ever it stops, it stops?

If I get bags then does this mean you don’t use shocks as well? The bag setup has dampening?

If I’m using bags will I still benefit from drop spindles? I was going to order a couple of kits from early classics for front disc brake conversion and the 4/6 kit but with an air system I’m guessing I won’t need any of the 4/6 kit.

It of course will always make sense as I’m actually doing it but it’s really nice to not order an extra 1000 of parts I won’t end up using.

Was thinking about this to get started. https://store.airslamit.com/default/...SABEgIYB_D_BwE

[jessemthompson]

I’ll start off with a disclaimer that I have a static drop, no air here. Yes, you will need drop spindles, yes you will need shocks. My question is if you’re not looking to go low enough to raise your bed floor, what’s the point of using air? Air is expensive is done correctly. I don’t think it’s really worth it if you’re not gonna go all out. You may as well just go with a static drop, 4/6 or even a 5/7

[Slowguy]

So would the lowest setting, without messing with the bed floor, be equivalent to a 5/7 static drop? I guess the reason I like it is because of the fine tuning available. I mean if IÂ’m not satisfied with 2/4 then push a button. DonÂ’t like 4/6, push a button. Little lower? Push a button. Bumpy road? Lift it up a bit. Front sitting a little higher than the rear, lower it a touch.

Plus, from what I can tell, itÂ’s really not a huge price difference unless you get one of those all-out kits that are like 5000 bucks.

[Dynospeed]

I’m current 5/6 static drop on my truck with Viking coilovers, frame is notched but factory bed floor. I was 5/7 and would bottom the rearend on the bed every time I would get in the throttle. I’m looking at going to a aftermarket frame and will probably stay static. I haven’t driven a bagged truck that rode or handled anything my mine currently and I’m looking for a big improvement. I have not driven a super high end air ride system but would love to.

[P7M89MM]

You can get some information from my build thread - link in Sig. The RideTech kit I used seems like something that might interest you.

[Slowguy]

P7M- your truck is amazing. Absolutely beautiful! I'm not sure I'm able to spend what it took to get yours looking the way it does, but the ridetech system does look like a quality kit. I may just go with that. My issue is I like to get everything all at once so I'm not waiting a week every time I need a bracket or bolt that was not included.

My ultimate goal is to have the lowest and most economical (not necessarily cheapest that will break in a month of use) air system that will work with the stock truck. I'd like to retain the original trailing arms and front suspension arms. I don't want to cut the truck to bits and have a hole in the bed just to get the truck lower.

I want to relocate the gas tank, and I want front disk power brakes. This is a basic 67 with no power steering and no disks or power brakes. I spent the winter building a lq4 ls engine with the stock 4l80e trans that is ready for a turbo set up. So...the power plant is all ready and waiting. I'll deal with the details of tuning an wiring and motor mounts when I get to that point.

I just pulled the cab and bed off and i'm down the frame. I know I'll probably get heat for it, but I really want to cut the frame to shorten. I have what I need for that as well. After the frame modification is done I'll clean again and por 15 everything. I'd like to start ordering all the bushings and all suspension components now so that can be in the works while I'm working on the frame.

Early classics sells some nice kits and they said they would work with me when combining so I don't end up paying for duplicate items. I had initially planned on the 4/6 along with the front power disks and brake booster kit. Now that I've thought about it more I really want air. Maybe I'll contact them and see if they can work with me to get everything I need in one shot.

[P7M89MM]

I like your plans. I had to convert from leaf springs to trailing arms so that entire kit made sense. I’m bet you could buy what you need individually. The setup is nice because it adds the c-notches but I didn’t have to touch the bed at all.

[t300]

Had the same q's you did before I did mine. My 10 cents canadian (c10, get it, get it) on air is

- you don't need to change bed height if not dropping to the ground
- mount air components on frame rail. see my thread for what I'm doing. all on pass side outer rail including tank. leave room in the back for rear tank.
- i made my own front control arm plates but they are cheap to buy. drives fine. no uneven tire wear.
- i didn't cup the arms
- i got a 5" pipe cut it and half and did a 'pipe notch'. less than 50% of way through height of frame rail, then welded the backside with a plate. in hindsight i should have made plates, would have been cleaner than the pipe and simpler to position/weld.
- use shocks, can either get drop shocks or better is to keep longer shocks and use front and rear shock relocation 'kit' or make your own so you keep the travel.
- i did drop spindles. i would do it again.
- i did manual bags. got sick of always adjusting them and hard to let someone else borrow the truck without a manual on how to operate it. currently putting in accuair eLevel.
- call Travis at AZproperformance for what you need, supporter of this board, great communication, great prices. get it all in one shot.
- lq4 is where its at!

I drive my truck to the dump, to the beer store, and haul all the heavy things from a garden tractor to quad to 52 pontiac. left it lwb, love it. no problems.

[68Stepbed]

TCI offers a kit that comes standard with coilovers, but you can upgrade to Shockwave bags.

https://totalcostinvolved.com/produc...evy-c10-truck/

[slowcpe]

This is an area I exhausted the hell out of for my '67. I decided to go air after riding in Ridetech's Gumby truck. It was amazing how well it rode and handled. In retrospect I should have bought their kit and been done with it. Their new RideProX system is pretty slick and I will be using that management system on the '67.

I went a little extreme for a c-notched truck by going full Porterbuilt. In the end I think it'll be worth it but it turned something basic into a full-blown multi-multi-multi year build. I have no desire to lay frame but like to be pretty low sitting in parking lots or at shows. Plus airing all the way up is nice when ground clearance is needed. I'm going for more of a hot rod setup with this truck with an LS/T56 setup.

With the above mentioned build I ended up buying a '72 for a driver while I build the '67. I had most of a basic air ride setup sitting on the shelf that's not being used on the project but decided to go static due to cost and simplicity. If it was in the budget for the '72 I would get Ridetech's Street Grip kit and call it a day. I've driven their truck with this kit and it's amazing for the money. But that's just money that is taken away from the '67.

Air is great but you have to do it right or you will more than likely hate it.

[HO455]

My Burban had bags in it when I bought it. They were just about the cheapest set up available. I put a fair amount of time and some money in to improving the set up. Still a manual valve system but I have learned some important things. You are correct that every time you change your ride height your alignment changes. Small changes in pressure make real noticeable changes in ride and handling. Larger bags make for a bouncy ride and smaller bags make for a stiffer ride at similar ride heights.
If ride quality is important to you then be prepared to spend a lot of time dialing the system in. Getting the right ride height and quality of ride means that the bags have to be at an exact pressure at ride height. I have no experience with electronic controllers but the physics are the same. The controls will hold the bag at pressure or level depending on what system you go with. But the bag will still have to be at the right pressure at the right height. Electronic controls will also make the annoying small leaks a non issue as you will no longer have to add 5 PSI to a bag every 30 minutes since the computer does it for you. If you have never gone down this road before there is no way to know what the right set up for you is. Currently I am still not happy with mine and plan on pulling the lower cups and cutting about 3/4" off them to get a higher pressure at the same ride height.
The front shocks are not to hard to make work but the rears will require reconfiguring to make them effective. Lots of information around these parts on that. Rule of thumb on shock selection is bags are bouncier than springs so you want to go with a stiffer shock to compensate. I didn't and now I'm looking into replacements for the fronts after 3000 miles. They just don't control the spring action of the bags properly. Check the WMB thread below for more details on what I did. In hindsight I should have left the rear bags in (for load handling) and gone static in the front.
Many folks will disagree with me but I felt it only fair to offer my experience's up on this as it is not an inexpensive modification. For me the best part is being able to drop the truck when I wash that quarter acre of sheet metal on the roof.

[Overdriven]

Originally Posted by Slowguy

I guess the reason I like it is because of the fine tuning available. I mean if I’m not satisfied with 2/4 then push a button. Don’t like 4/6, push a button. Little lower? Push a button. Bumpy road? Lift it up a bit. Front sitting a little higher than the rear, lower it a touch.

You do get a certain amount of adjustability but it doesn’t quite work like that. At least not with my bags, other bags may have more adjustability. My truck came with a cheap air ride kit installed and at ride height the pressures are 60psi front and 30psi rear. I didn’t get these pressures from the previous owner, the manual or what I thought ride height should be. These pressures were determined by driving. More pressure means a higher spring rate and the ride starts to get stiff, less pressure and the suspension starts hitting the stock bumpsrops. On smoother roads I could probably lower pressure and drop an inch or so without hitting the stock bumpstops but then the springs are too soft too. This is why HO455 mentioned changing the depth of the cup their air bag sits in, because the pressure needed to run his desired ride height isn’t in the sweet spot. So he needs to adjust the cup/mount to get the air bag in it’s height and pressure sweet spot.

I have the same problem with the system the previous owner installed on my truck. I’ve found the sweet spot, it rides great, handles good, it just so happens that sweet spot is only an inch or so lower than stock. Dropped spindles will get me where I want to be up front. Out back I’m going to need to modify or swap out the bag mounts (they’re more like 2 inch spacers top and bottom), get an adjustable pan hard bar and shock relocators.

[Slowguy]

Well it seems after reading all this I’d be best off just getting a static kit. Seems like more headache than it’s worth unless I’m willing to spend 5k on a decent setup...which I’m not. More than anything I suppose the idea is cool but not realistic for what I truly need (want vs need)

I’ll probably be happiest with the height of either 4/6 or 5/7. I really like the somewhat original look of the transport wheels but they are so huge I need to get the fenders close to the wheel/tire for it to look nice.

[Slowguy]

So is there a general concensus on what pressure or air level in a bag yield the best ride for comfort? I mean if no air is 0 and full air is 100 then most people would find the best ride quality at around 60% aired up? Something like that.

I just welded in those drop cups in the front lower control arms so I could get the truck lower up front but keep more air in the shock for driving. I pulled the cup spacer that was attached to the bottom of the air shock and now, fully deflated, the lower control arm will contact the k member. I guess I either need to add a spacer back to the bottom of the spring or devise some kind of bump stop.

[HO455]

No consensus on PSI. Between all the different engine options, different bag sizes, and opinions on ride quality it is tough to nail it down. I can tell the difference between a full tank of gas and a quarter tank. On my fronts l like 85 psi rears 38.
We have similar modifications to our control arms so my bump stop style may work on your arms. It works but if I was to do it over I would go lower with it and have a more cone shaped rubber bumper. What I have works but it is pretty harsh when it hits the stop. See the link. There's more on the arms/ bags earlier in the thread.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...698377&page=12

[Slowguy]

I plan on letting accuair e-level take care of the ride height decision making. I’ll just need to decide on presets. I’m installing mechanical components based on what I’ve read and other suggestions here and in other threads. My current course of action is:

Those drop cups in front with another 2.5 drop in spindles. 2” blocks in the rear with cpp bolt in notches. Before I tore the truck down the po had it so nothing was done mechanically to the front othe than adding bags. Fully aired out the rear tire would tuck just in the fender and the front tire was just outside the fender. Looked dumb like it was popping a wheelie.

So I posted here and it was suggested to add blocks in the rear ( now the axle will sit in the notches where before it did not) and give the front an additional drop of about 3” for those cups I welded in, 3” for the bags spacers that can now be removed, and 2.5 for the spindles. That’s quite a bit more.

What you can’t see in the pic above is that the upper bag plate is actually in contact with the lower control arm. I either have to modify the lower bag spacers I removed to make them shorter and then put them back or add a bump stop to the lower control arm. I’d imagine That metal on metal contact would make a h3ll of a bang fully deflated!

[HO455]

Keep in mind the bag must not rub on anything. (I pretty sure you knew that but better safe...)) I had to recenter the bag on the upper plate after I installed it. What lined up line at ride height wasn't as well lined up when deflated and as a result my bag was touching the lower arm pocket.
Your lowers look good!

[jjlett69]

Some really good opinions and facts on this thread for sure! Here is my humble opinion, You can never go wrong with a good quality static drop for handling and performance especially if you went with IFS, but if you want it to look sick sitting still and parked then bags are way to go!