the ls engine debackle

[BCOWANWHEELS]

After doing a serio0us cost compareison between all ls engines and related transmissions compared to the regular sbc and bbc engines heres what i disscovered. If your rich and want to blow alot of cash get a ls and matching computer controled trans also you better join triple a because a tow truck is in your future.if your a regular guy who works for every cent you got your far better off with the common 350/ 454 engines. These engines will deliver the same power for pennies on the dollar. Jmo the ls engine craze is just a fad and will be gone soon.......................
Bob

[truckster]

To each his own. I have both a Vortec 5.7 and an LS 5.3, and I prefer the Vortec. That's what I'm putting in my Blazer, with a Quadrajet and HEI.

[gphillips72wagon]

I've got a 72 Chevelle with an LS3/4L70E (new GM Performance Connect & Cruise). It cost me a bundle, but the power and drivability (490 HP) are amazing.

My 68 C10 has a SBC. Will I go LS with it? Probably not, due to the $$$. But it sure is fun to think about! A 490 HP SBC would not be near as drivable and still give me 20 MPG on normal driving.

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by BCOWANWHEELS

After doing a serio0us cost compareison between all ls engines and related transmissions compared to the regular sbc and bbc engines heres what i disscovered. If your rich and want to blow alot of cash get a ls and matching computer controled trans also you better join triple a because a tow truck is in your future.if your a regular guy who works for every cent you got your far better off with the common 350/ 454 engines. These engines will deliver the same power for pennies on the dollar. Jmo the ls engine craze is just a fad and will be gone soon.......................
Bob

Wow Bob! Who put a bee in your britches!!!!! Or better yet, what have you been drinking?

The only thing I will say is that your information is obviously flawed or you are pricing all new LSx components, or hiring all of the work done. My LS1/4l60e combo install total in the '67 Panel Truck was just a little over $2700 complete. I did all of my own install work and wiring and enjoyed it. The install was done in 2015 and the wife and I have driven many trouble free miles. The only problem I have had was a blown main fuse because I didn't use a heavy enough fuse, and since I assembled everything myself I knew exactly where the problem was. I put a new fuse in it, turned off some of the accessories and drove the rest of the way home. I'm pretty old school but I have purchased two more LSx engine/trans combos for install in a couple of my other trucks.

I'm sold..... Easy starting, great gas mileage (better than any SB/BB I have ever owned) and low maintenance.

Oh, and I've never had a triple A subscription......

Just my 2¢ worth.

LockDoc

[vics stuff]

I have to agree with loc doc on this. I have 3ea vehicles that are running the LSx engine trans combos and good running engines up over 200k miles. You are not going to get that type of service out of any older conventional chevy engine.
Vic

[hamjet]

I sunk a lot of money rebuilding my multi carb, W engine, (more than I expected) and I could have had a modern power plant with tons of more h.p. and ease of drivability, for probably less money. but I love old school and still enjoy HAVING to tinker with keeping things working. if I had to depend on long trips and 100% care free driving with better mileage I'd switch in a heart beat. Maybe I need a second truck with an ls engine?

[cebra]

In my opinion, if you actually drive your vehicle you are much better off going with a LS. It cost a lot, a whole lot to do the LS with electrical and fuel system costing the most that would not be the case with a SBC/BBC. Also, I got a junkyard motor that after 15K miles is having issues (knocking) but I rolled the dice on an unknown junkyard motor. Here is the deal the motor was $900 and the swap was $5K or so....I will gladly replace that motor and still be happy going LS. My vehicle is my daily driver and my only vehicle and I drive 30K miles per year, without the LS it would be miserable to drive every day as I did it for a month with the SBC...it sucked (cold start issues, constant tuning issues, and $900 a month in gas make it completely unrealistic to drive it every day). I spend about $300 a month on my LS so dollar for dollar it justifies itself and I have every plan to keep this truck for the long haul due to the sentimental value so it is going to pay for the LS swap time and time again.

[special-K]

It's all about what you want. There used to be the big block vs small block and the 6cyl vs V8. There's the Chevy small block vs flathead for hot rods. Now it's LS vs SBC/BBC. What engine depends on the truck and desired use for me.

I have my reasons for preferring the motors that belong in these trucks for some of the reasons Bob gave. But I'm not opposed to a modern engine if I decide I need an old truck to use like it was a modern truck. I don't hop on bandwagons, so the LS thing never caught me. I need a reason to change and so far I haven't had one. I know the SBC and BBC inside and out top to bottom front to back. I also have zillions of parts as well as spare engines. I lack the knowledge and equipment to service an LS motor's systems and I don't like driving what I can't service. I think GM once again built a legendary motor when they made the LS. It's another option in this wonderful world of GM Power

[Ctinman]

I think it depends a lot on how much power you’re looking for as well. My 2wd short bed I recently sold was the first thing I tried an LS swap on. I bought a 6 liter truck motor with about 100k on it for 1400 I believe, bought a rebuild 4l80 for about 1800. 500 bucks for a stand-alone harness that was plug and play and made my fuel system myself using all parts you can get at any local parts store. For about 4500 bucks, including motor mounts, new radiator, modifying a new factory tank, I had it up and going. For what it’s worth, you definitely could do it cheaper by making your own parts, cheaper motor, used trans, etc. I liked the piece of mind of a motor with a warranty and a reman trans with warranty. Drove it daily for a while and made many road trips in it. Never had one problem out of it. Actually took it on a 1000 mile road trip the week after I backed it out of the shop for the first time. I was really skeptical about modern engines in old trucks before I did it but I was very pleased with it after I did it. The guy I sold it to drives it almost daily now and loves it. The stock 6 liter with 3.73 gears with overdrive trans was the perfect combo for me and I feel like I would have spent more on a similar powered sbc and not had the same driveability.
Posted via Mobile Device

[truckster]

Originally Posted by vics stuff

I have to agree with loc doc on this. I have 3ea vehicles that are running the LSx engine trans combos and good running engines up over 200k miles. You are not going to get that type of service out of any older conventional chevy engine.
Vic

I'm not knocking the LS, but that's simply not true of the Vortec engines. They're easily good for over 200k.

[1971Stepside]

Wow! Wack the hornet nest...

I really wanted a BB for my truck and then I started pricing what it was going to cost to build one. I then looked at some crate small blocks, but decided if I was going to do that I should look at the LS engines. I went LS and I am very happy I did. To each their own. I'm pretty confident you can do an LS for less money than other options. I've heard of some buying the whole vehicle and selling off parts from it and it paid for the swap.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by truckster

I'm not knocking the LS, but that's simply not true of the Vortec engines. They're easily good for over 200k.

x2.....

An engine is an air-pump... It's as simple as that. Similar sized engines of different families perform different because of deficiencies/effeciencies in the parts used. A smog era SBC 327 using period parts & a carb is never going to match up against an LS based 5.3 with it's better compression ratio, better flowing heads, better spark control, EFI, & OD transmission.

But, that theoretical SBC 327 w/some better flowing heads, ideal compression, & an aftermarket EFI set-up w/an OD trans is on a much closer comparison level. The LS might seal better but they still can leak & they do.... Lots of mechanical stuff does.

Both engine families are good. Heck, both are great.
It's easy enough to put updated parts into a SBC (or even a BBC). Saying you can't get 2XX,XXX miles out of a sbc but can from an LS is not exactly accurate especially if they're built similarly.

Don't hate one over the other. Love them all

[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by BCOWANWHEELS

After doing a serio0us cost compareison between all ls engines and related transmissions compared to the regular sbc and bbc engines heres what i disscovered. If your rich and want to blow alot of cash get a ls and matching computer controled trans also you better join triple a because a tow truck is in your future.if your a regular guy who works for every cent you got your far better off with the common 350/ 454 engines. These engines will deliver the same power for pennies on the dollar. Jmo the ls engine craze is just a fad and will be gone soon.......................
Bob

Theres not even a decent comparison here sorry.... the old school stuff will not even get close to giving the same power, reliability, and service life as the ls stuff for pennies on the dollar. There’s plenty of mostly stock ls motors on serious boost making 900+ hp. They are engineered for 300,000 mile+ service life and tons of them have gone past that mark. With the exception of the uncommon real bad ass late 60’s small blocks and big blocks, well I’ll assume your referring to the much more common 70s-80s smog motors, your already 100 hp+ down to Even the loweer hp ls stuff in stock form. Costs a fair amount of money to get 100hp out of either small blocks or the big blocks. Vortec heads alone aren’t going to get you there. I’ve got a fuel injected big block truck, 3 carbed small block trucks, and an LS powered Camaro. I’ve had in the past, a few other LS trucks as well. The vortec 454 in my K2500 is super reliable but a dog, my carbed 350’s are just that carbed 350’s, they run and get from point a to b but they aren’t much to write home about. They require there normal tinkering to keep them running. Now the ls trucks I’ve had and my Camaro, they don’t require much other than oil changes to keep them running, a computer tune alone getting rid of torque management completely changes the way they run, throw a cam into the mix and they really come to life. Boost... don’t even get me started. If your into the old school stuff there isn’t a damn thing wrong with that. I’ve got real respect for them, But technology has come a long way in the last 60 years. If you want to really appreciate the gem gm has blessed us with in the LS stuff, search out and read the big bang theory articles from hot rod magazine. The potential the new stuff has is inredible. All I’m trying to say is I really don’t feel there is a comparison between the old and the new. They both have there places for sure, I wouldn’t even think about an LS swap in an unmolested truck or a period correct hot rod. I can’t wait to get the ls swap in my K20 done.

[BCOWANWHEELS]

well guys, run your computer stuff for me NO WAY

[weq92f]

.
Chomping the Pop Corn.

:popcorn:

-klb

[72 tigger]

I like popcorn too! Good thread

[TruDom]

in summary: old guy only reads opinion of other old guys and unwilling to learn new technology; hates new technology.
should say LS isn't even new technology; it's dated now.

[hamjet]

Originally Posted by TruDom

in summary: old guy only reads opinion of other old guys and unwilling to learn new technology; hates new technology.
should say LS isn't even new technology; it's dated now.

Why you young whipper snappers! lol

[Heavymetl]

55mm cam core, gerotor oil pump, replicated ports, low tension rings, 6.098 rods, stable engine block, COP ignition, injector targeting at back of intake valve, high velocity cathedral ports, windage tray, and lightweight rockers.

There's no magic in the LS family. Just brilliant, simple, beautiful engineering.


Even the lowly 4.8 is a blast with a cam and headers. Effortless 7400rpm shifts and a sound that's just ear candy. I put a $150 junkyard 4.8 in my Camaro and went 12.80s@107.

[jjzepplin]

Yup. Took me 20 years to jump on the wagon. I didn't even want one until I found a killer deal on a Trans Am that had the 6 speed manual trans I was looking for. The whole car was unmolested and I drove it home for $1500. Drove it for a couple months and then stripped it, sold the body and ended up with a 5.7L and a 6 speed for $700. Now I am down below SBC stuff. Sure it has a computer but I think of it as on board elves always tuning and maximizing power and reliability. I always have the 4x4 next to it if I want to burn some cash on gas. I was gonna sell the TA with the engine but it just ran too darn good and was cheaper than the 383 I had planned. SO I get it but a perfect world would be to have a fuel injected 409 that got 20MPG. Guess how much that would run if it could be achieved at all? And that computer will keep my brain sharp as I pull HP out of that engine. Once it's up and running, swapping motors will actually be easier if I ever have to but considering the mileage these can get it is not likely. By the time it wears out we will be putting electric motors in these old trucks haha.

[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by jjzepplin

Yup. Took me 20 years to jump on the wagon. I didn't even want one until I found a killer deal on a Trans Am that had the 6 speed manual trans I was looking for. The whole car was unmolested and I drove it home for $1500. Drove it for a couple months and then stripped it, sold the body and ended up with a 5.7L and a 6 speed for $700. Now I am down below SBC stuff. Sure it has a computer but I think of it as on board elves always tuning and maximizing power and reliability. I always have the 4x4 next to it if I want to burn some cash on gas. I was gonna sell the TA with the engine but it just ran too darn good and was cheaper than the 383 I had planned. SO I get it but a perfect world would be to have a fuel injected 409 that got 20MPG. Guess how much that would run if it could be achieved at all? And that computer will keep my brain sharp as I pull HP out of that engine. Once it's up and running, swapping motors will actually be easier if I ever have to but considering the mileage these can get it is not likely. By the time it wears out we will be putting electric motors in these old trucks haha.

Well you could always get a 6.2 gen 4 and stroke it to get your 409... just sayin. Probably could get decent gas mileage if you drive it right too.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by TruDom

in summary: old guy only reads opinion of other old guys and unwilling to learn new technology; hates new technology.
should say LS isn't even new technology; it's dated now.

OK, I'm an old guy, but I work on modern drivetrains (including fixing a Toyota hybrid the dealer couldn't figure out). But you don't have to hate new technology to appreciate old technology, either. Someday I hope to build a steam engine, and some guys really like their 292; there's nothing wrong with that and it doesn't mean someone is unwilling to learn. No need to slam people just because they prefer one technology over another.

[jjzepplin]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

Well you could always get a 6.2 gen 4 and stroke it to get your 409... just sayin. Probably could get decent gas mileage if you drive it right too.

I just love the look of the W engines. Mine was SO bad on gas though.

[TruDom]

Originally Posted by truckster

OK, I'm an old guy, but I work on modern drivetrains (including fixing a Toyota hybrid the dealer couldn't figure out). But you don't have to hate new technology to appreciate old technology, either. Someday I hope to build a steam engine, and some guys really like their 292; there's nothing wrong with that and it doesn't mean someone is unwilling to learn. No need to slam people just because they prefer one technology over another.

ok, im on board with that. Just saying OP could take the same advice.

[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by jjzepplin

I just love the look of the W engines. Mine was SO bad on gas though.

For sure no doubt at all the 348 and 409 look amazing.