New harness, crank no start

[Baker819]

Hi, I need help. After installing a new harness, 4l80E with stand alone controller and some other parts I my engine doesnt seem to be getting spark. It's a 1970 350 with HEI, the harness came from Kwik wire. I have double checked my ignition switch wiring to their diagram. I have a new battery, I'd confirm battery voltage but it looks like my meter needs a new battery. It doesn't struggle to turn over though. I pulled my number one plug and valve cover and confirmed my distributor isn't 180 out and the rotor was present and not corroded. Confirmed my coil wire is connected to the BAT connection on the HEI cap. Have an unused tach wire and shift controller plugged into the tach side and confirmed the HEI wires are connected. Confirmed the wire feeding the fuse block is coming from the starter lug shared with wires going to the battery and alternator. Alternator is 150amp rated unit from powermaster, voltage sensing wire (#2) is looping back to the big cable connecting the alternator and starter and the white exciter wire (#1) is running back to fuse block with a generator light spliced into the wire.

The fuse block does have an ignition cut off switch and I tried getting spark with the switch in both positions.

I feel like I must not be getting spark... I have new fuel in my new carb and I partially filled the fuel bowls before attempting to fire it up and not one spark. I have had the truck for a long time with the same set up pretty much and even with the timing 180 out or the timing way off I can still get it to fire up. I guessed at my timing manually and its pretty close based on where the vacuum canister is.

I noticed I didnt ground my cluster yet and thats way my cluster probably wasn't lighting up. I am going to fix that and remove a spark plug and connect it to the plug wire and ground and have my son crank the engine over for me but I could really use any suggestions. I know VetteVet is on here a lot and I've read a lot of your comments, would really appreciate your opinion.

Thank you

I'm headed to town real quick and will post some pictures when I get back.

[VetteVet]

Is it the same distributor and not controlled by the standalone?
If so disconnect everything from the distributor and run a separate wire directly from the battery positive post to the BAT terminal on the distributor. Crank it and see if she fires. If so the distributor is not the problem. If not then it is the problem. Post back with the answer and we'll get busy sorting it out.

[Baker819]

Yes same distributor I've always run and is completely separate from the transmission controller. I think its made by Summit Racing, just a basic HEI unit.

I ran a test lead from the Battery hook on the distributor to the large cable on the alternator. It has unrestricted flow from the battery. No change.

Battery is now below 12v and on the charger.

Pictures are a little later than I wanted but I will load them right after this message.

Can you tell me how test my new harness, obviously ignition switch the most important. For example... what the readings should be on the switch during each position and similar as it goes "down stream". I guess I could guess close enough like if I were using a test light instead of a multimeter. I got a battery for my multimeter by the way, its good to go.

Thanks for your help

[Baker819]

I'm go double check some wiring and try to figure it out again poking around looking for power in the right places

[RustyPile]

Originally Posted by Baker819

I'm go double check some wiring and try to figure it out again poking around looking for power in the right places

Read Vettevet's instructions again.. He said connect the test jumper directly to the positive post on the battery.. Did you test for voltage on the alternator?? If voltage is present, the problem is in the distributor, not the wiring, not the ign switch...….

[Baker819]

The smaller gauge red wire squished in with the pink ignition coil wire is for the stand alone trans controller ( US Shift quick 4)

[Baker819]

Originally Posted by RustyPile

Read Vettevet's instructions again.. He said connect the test jumper directly to the positive post on the battery.. Did you test for voltage on the alternator?? If voltage is present, the problem is in the distributor, not the wiring, not the ign switch...….

I'm fully aware what Vettevet said and I have unrestricted flow from the battery to my alternator post. Its the same thing but safer because my test leads arent long enough unless I daisy chained them together.

How would you suggest I check for power at the alternator? Power in?

[RustyPile]

Originally Posted by Baker819

I'm fully aware what Vettevet said and I have unrestricted flow from the battery to my alternator post. Its the same thing but safer because my test leads arent long enough unless I daisy chained them together.

How would you suggest I check for power at the alternator? Power in?

Test light or preferably, a volt/multimeter.. One lead to ground and the other lead on the alternator output post.. Should have same voltage as the battery 12 - 12.5 volts... Anything less and the battery needs to be charged.. The reason for connecting directly to the battery is this method eliminates any and all loose and/or bad wiring connections, including ignition switch, firewall connectors, main power distribution circuit, and fuse links.. As has been stated previously, if the engine doesn't run on the test lead, the problem is in the distributor.. If it does run, then it's the time to start checking the wiring and related components...

Simple solution to short test leads... Raid the old wiring harness.. Buy some alligator clips and make some test leads of varying lengths.. One of my test leads is around 15 feet long..

[Baker819]

Originally Posted by RustyPile

Test light or preferably, a volt/multimeter.. One lead to ground and the other lead on the alternator output post.. Should have same voltage as the battery 12 - 12.5 volts... Anything less and the battery needs to be charged.. The reason for connecting directly to the battery is this method eliminates any and all loose and/or bad wiring connections, including ignition switch, firewall connectors, main power distribution circuit, and fuse links.. As has been stated previously, if the engine doesn't run on the test lead, the problem is in the distributor.. If it does run, then it's the time to start checking the wiring and related components...

Simple solution to short test leads... Raid the old wiring harness.. Buy some alligator clips and make some test leads of varying lengths.. One of my test leads is around 15 feet long..

Understood about the reason to go directly to the battery and makes sense what you're saying about the coil wire. Voltmeter and it said I had 12.33v in the battery and the same when checking the output of the alternator.
Good tip on test leads, I'll have to make some.

Any ideas how to test the distrubitor? Its nothing special I dont think it has one of the modules like some of the others.

Thanks

[RustyPile]

Originally Posted by Baker819

Understood about the reason to go directly to the battery and makes sense what you're saying about the coil wire. Voltmeter and it said I had 12.33v in the battery and the same when checking the output of the alternator.
Good tip on test leads, I'll have to make some.

Any ideas how to test the distrubitor? Its nothing special I dont think it has one of the modules like some of the others.

Thanks

It takes an elaborate piece of equipment to properly test the distributor components.. Any fully equipped automotive repair facility can test/repair it.. During the years I worked as a drivability mechanic, I replaced very few failed pick up coils.. On the other hand, I replaced hundreds of those modules.. They're very prone to failure. So prone that I carry one in the glove box of my truck. I don't normally promote guessing and parts slinging.. In this case, due to the failure history of the GM ignition module, if it were me, I'd go first with the odds and just "shotgun" (take a WAG and replace) the module..

[Baker819]

Originally Posted by RustyPile

It takes an elaborate piece of equipment to properly test the distributor components.. Any fully equipped automotive repair facility can test/repair it.. During the years I worked as a drivability mechanic, I replaced very few failed pick up coils.. On the other hand, I replaced hundreds of those modules.. They're very prone to failure. So prone that I carry one in the glove box of my truck. I don't normally promote guessing and parts slinging.. In this case, due to the failure history of the GM ignition module, if it were me, I'd go first with the odds and just "shotgun" (take a WAG and replace) the module..

Not sure why I didn't just google it after getting some help or even just from the beginning. I guess for lack of time. Anyways, I took apart the distributor again and figured out how to do some test with the multimeter. I was about to just shot gun the problem because I've heard the same thing about the modules, more so with Pertronixs brand.

Battery voltage: 12.33

Black probe on battery ground and Red probe on HEI ignition coil connector ( module connected but not tach or ignition coil wires ) and helper working the igntion switch:
Off: 0.000v
On: 0.003v
Start: 0.001v

And with Black probe on battery + and Red probe on connection point for tach ( again wire not connected from tach )

0.05v movement -12.08 to -12.13 when cranking to on position

I was going to do an LS swap in 6 months and just around $1000 into the dang engine before I found out the compression was unconsistent and on the low side... o well I guess

[RustyPile]

Originally Posted by Baker819

Not sure why I didn't just google it after getting some help or even just from the beginning. I guess for lack of time. Anyways, I took apart the distributor again and figured out how to do some test with the multimeter. I was about to just shot gun the problem because I've heard the same thing about the modules, more so with Pertronixs brand.

Battery voltage: 12.33

Black probe on battery ground and Red probe on HEI ignition coil connector ( module connected but not tach or ignition coil wires ) and helper working the igntion switch:
Off: 0.000v
On: 0.003v
Start: 0.001v

And with Black probe on battery + and Red probe on connection point for tach ( again wire not connected from tach )

0.05v movement -12.08 to -12.13 when cranking to on position

I was going to do an LS swap in 6 months and just around $1000 into the dang engine before I found out the compression was unconsistent and on the low side... o well I guess

Here's a test you can do for the pick up coil even though it's not all conclusive.. Disconnect the pick up coil from the module.. Put the multimeter in the A.C. mode.. Connect the leads to the plug on the pick up coil.. There's no polarity in A.C. so it doesn't matter which lead goes where.. Crank the engine over and take a reading.. It's been years since I've done this test and I forget what the reading should be, but I think something around .100 volts.. If someone knows the correct reading, please post...

Remember, this test is reasonably accurate, it's NOT all conclusive.. If the pick up coil tests bad, replace it.. If it tests good replace the module..

[RustyPile]

Here's one..

https://www.bing.com/search?q=testin...lvar=0&PC=LCTS

[Baker819]

Thank you. I will test it but if anything is bad im just replacing it all with another summit unit. $99 bucks and lots of great reviews.

[Baker819]

Update: Ended up being out of time. Figured it out after I replaced the distrubitor. Thanks again for the help