Engine?

[Kim57]

This is a 3 part question.
I'm building a 57 chevy pro-street themed P.U. and am considering going one of a few ways on the engine trans combo.
My frame has a 67 chevelle front clip on it.

#1 - 454 vortec pulled out of an 99 truck. This engine has 90,00 miles on it so I will have to go through it and freshen/replace what is worn out on it.
On the plus side it has all the accessories and brackets on it.
It also has the multi port FI and comes with the computer to run it.
Is this a decent FI for the street?
Is there a way to tell if it has 4 bolt mains and a forged crank without pulling the pan?
I can get this engine for $1,000.
I would need to get a trans for it, possibly a 4L80.
this seems to be about the most cost effective way to go if the stock FI will make some decent power.

#2 - I can get a 6.0 LS2 out of a 2009 SS Trail Blazer with a 4L60 trans and computers. This is supposed to be a 390 HP motor. Only supposed to have 18,000 miles so it should be good to go.
I will have to change some things to make it fit my frame so that will add to the overall cost.
My biggest concern with this route is if the engine trans isn't what it's purported to be. This could end up being a costly rebuild.

#3 - I have a new 4 bolt 454 bare block that would have to be built from the ground up.

I'm just looking for a cruiser that will have decent power and not brake the bank getting there.
I'm leaning towards the BBs because of all the room in the engine compartment on the truck but the fact the LS 2 has the trans makes it tempting.

Sorry for the long post.
I do appreciate any info I get.
Kim

[Super73]

If it is an LS2 from a TBSS then it is actually a 4L70E trans. Samething as a 60E but better internals from the factory.

The LS2's make an honest 400hp/400ftlbs. My wife has a 2007 AWD version and is a low 14 second/high 13 second truck at 4,900lbs, tows my truck with trailer with out any problems. Her AWD version get's 16mpg mixed driving, freeway it get's high 19's. I would assume in stock format that it would get low 20's if just 2wd.

Go look at the casting numbers.

Head casting should be a 243, here is a link to it's location: http://f.imagehost.org/0502/292.jpg
Block should be 12568950 and found on the back top drivers side.

[Marv D]

Yup, the LS2 would get my vote also. Even if you have to rebuild it! Big blocks have grunt that's no question, but to have the same power, in a package at nearly 1/2 the weight, and have drivability and effeiciency,, we all need to start looking at these LS motors more seriously.

[usmcchevy]

X3 for the LS2. Check the LSx section of the site out.

[Kim57]

Thanks for the info guys.
Kim

[1Bad62Pro/Street]

I would love to see a option #3 - 4 bolt 454 bare block that would have to be built from the ground up in your truck.
Nothing wild. 10.5 compression ratio, Dual Pattern cam, etc. Ground Pounder, but not sucking gas.

I like things old school myself.

I would stay away with option #1.

6.0 LS2 doesn't sound bad. But you will have to deal with the electronics.
I think The 6.0 LS2 V8 was rated at 395 hp with 400 lbft of torque and claimed to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in an estimated 5.8 seconds with quarter mile times around 14.2 seconds at 100.0 mph..
4-speed automatic 4L60-E and 4L70-E (only with LS2 6.0 liter engine)
Here is the 2006 review

Motorweek Video of the 2006 Chevrolet TrailBlazer...

Option #4 If you hit the Lotto ==>

57 Chevy Pro Truck Burnout/Run - YouTube

[ItsRandy]

I like the big block. Once you go big block you never go back!

[1Bad62Pro/Street]

Once you roll phat you never go back....
Foe Fitty Foe
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[BigDan3131]

I would go option #2 because it allows more air to move around in your engine compartment and...leaves room for a twin turbo setup later on.

[Kim57]

Originally Posted by 1Bad62Pro/Street

I would love to see a option #3 - 4 bolt 454 bare block that would have to be built from the ground up in your truck.
Nothing wild. 10.5 compression ratio, Dual Pattern cam, etc. Ground Pounder, but not sucking gas.

I like things old school myself.

I would stay away with option #1.

6.0 LS2 doesn't sound bad. But you will have to deal with the electronics.
I think The 6.0 LS2 V8 was rated at 395 hp with 400 lbft of torque and claimed to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in an estimated 5.8 seconds with quarter mile times around 14.2 seconds at 100.0 mph..
4-speed automatic 4L60-E and 4L70-E (only with LS2 6.0 liter engine)
Here is the 2006 review
Motorweek Video of the 2006 Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS - YouTube

Option #4 If you hit the Lotto ==>
57 Chevy Pro Truck Burnout/Run - YouTube

Originally Posted by ItsRandy

I like the big block. Once you go big block you never go back!

I agree with both you guys but finances are playing a big role in my decision.
I'm also kinda antsy to get it on the road and my bad back keeps rearing its ugly head.
Kim

Originally Posted by BigDan3131

I would go option #2 because it allows more air to move around in your engine compartment and...leaves room for a twin turbo setup later on.

I like the way you think.
Kim

[Super73]

Never had a big block, but I am more than happy whoopin on other trucks with a big block

[69GMC910]

454. or 496 it!!

[C20-67_N_MO]

Originally Posted by Super73

Never had a big block, but I am more than happy whoopin on other trucks with a big block

I am with ya Super 100%!

Love to see folks faces that a SBC just spanked a big dog BBC.

SBC/LS lover to the end of my days!

[Kim57]

This is my 1st one so it's all new to me.
Everything I've read says there very easy to get to know and make tons of H.P.
Kim

[Super73]

IMO LS motors are very easy too, make awesome power with driveability. My 347ci motor with 247/251 degrees of duration and .610/.612 lift made 449rwhp and was easy to drive. That is a BIG cam in a 347ci motor. To have street manners says something. Would start cold, never surge or die. Heck, it even ran vacum brakes. Ran the numbers in my sig.
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[Kim57]

Originally Posted by Super73

IMO LS motors are very easy too, make awesome power with driveability. My 347ci motor with 247/251 degrees of duration and .610/.612 lift made 449rwhp and was easy to drive. That is a BIG cam in a 347ci motor. To have street manners says something. Would start cold, never surge or die. Heck, it even ran vacum brakes. Ran the numbers in my sig.
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The more I hear about these motors the happier I am that I made the deal.
Kim

[djracer]

I am a Die Hard Big Block guy for racing but the LS motors are very Impressive. A BBC will get half of the fuel mileage of the Ls Motor. I am putting a 454 in my son's truck but it may come out for an LS motor if it gets much street use.

[C20-67_N_MO]

Okay I hate to do it but I just gotta..... so not trying to turn this thread but....!

LS vs. BBC for racing which would you have less money into and still put down some great times going down the track with good street manners?

Toughie huh?

[Super73]

Street manners are open to interputation.

With an LS2 block and stock heads, the right cam/converter/gear/tire I bet you could go high 11's NA and quite possible high 10's with a little bottle.

[Kim57]

Guys here's a link to a discussion on another forum about the LS with a couple of reply's from it. Seems the factory did their homework on these engines and they make tons of HP without a lot of extras.
Kim
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365904

1. INDIVIDUAL COIL PER CYLINDER. coil fires once per cycle instead of 8 times a cycle

2. sequential fuel for superior gas mileage

3. if you get an alum ls1 it is close to 200lbs lighter than a bbc. and thats weight off the front of the car

4. o ringed intake and oil pan gaskets make it a joy to work on

5. pulling cam in dead easy

6. changing springs is dead easy, also no need to do the whole io/ec or whatever it is song and dance to reset the rockers.

7. hydraulic roller from the factory

8. 15 degree heads from the factory. i wonder what 15 degree sbc or bbc heads cost

9. l92 heads that are $700 complete for the pair that outflow most bbc heads

10. 6 bolts mains stock

11. stock crank that has held 1300hp without a hiccup

13. no water through the intake makes it easier to pull

14. acc. drive belt has a tensioner from the factory

15. internally balanced from the factory

17. equal spaced intake and exhaust ports offer superior flow

18. cam sync allows for cylinder to cylinder tuning of fuel and spark

19. iron block supports up to 1500hp

20. will add more as i think of it.


oh, and they make power. my 293 cid cam only engine with only 1( thats ONE) psi boost, ran 7.8 at 98mph in a 3200lb combo

take one apart and you will see what makes them tick.. everything about them has the look and feel of high end race parts for old school small blocks.
how much is a set of 18 degree heads for a small block? i think the worst LS heads have 15 degree valve angles and the best have 12 degree valves, which opens up the port layout so there are no bottlenecks. the "bad" LS heads are better than all but the "best" old school small block heads.
6 bolt main caps with 4 bolts in the regular up and down configuration with 2 bolts that come in from the side..
head bolts that tie into the block down by the crankshaft...
the oil pan is a structural part of the block..
the cam is placed up high in the block compared to a regular small block, which allows shorter (and thus lighter) pushrods that go up to the valves at a better angle.
roller fulcrums on the shaft mounted rocker arms..
ventilation windows that let the air in the crankcase move around in the block, which causes less pumping losses as each piston moves up and down.
the oil pump is driven directly off the front of the crankshaft, and there is no distributor to put extra strain on the full roller timing chain.
roller lifters riding on a cam with a larger base circle.

The short block takes practically no effort to spin over, you can turn the assembled shortblock by hand, just grab the crank snout and spin!
The ring package is lighweight low drag(1.2mm compression and 3.0mm oil rings.)
The pistons are above the deck about .008", remember building older engines for zero deck?
with a .050 factory gasket these engines are running .042 quench, stock!
raised 55mm cam core offers several advantges for valve train stability, shorter pushrods, lightweight 8mm valves with beehive springs. With a spring swap you can turn the stock HR setup to 7k with no float.
The cylinder heads are mirror port configuration like SB2. Stock L92 heads are 260cc port with a 2.165 valve(sounds like a BBC head) they flow 300cfm untouched!
The bottom end is very stout with 6 bolt mains in a deep skirt block, turbo guys are making 1000 hp with stock bottom ends.
These engines are a joy to work on with the modern sealing, gaskets can be reused, no blue goo required.
The best part of all this is that 6.0 truck engines are plentiful and cheap!
I live in the northeast, a local recycler has 7 6.0's for sale at (1200) apiece.
Take one of these and put a cam/spring swap , carb and intake, MSD controller and you have a 500hp pump gas street engine... these are good times for those that embrace the LS platform.

[69GMC910]

What does it cost to build a NA LS motor to 700hp?

[Super73]

69GMC910

I get where you are going with the cost. I probably have one of the stronger LS set ups on this board. I have about $8k in to my forged 418ci LS3 set up and I would guess with the new top end combo it will be around the 650 mark NA (Shooting for 525-550rwhp through a loose converter). That is a pump gas (California 91 octane) drinking hyd roller combo. Put that in any 4th gen F-body and it could drive tons of miles for years on end with manageable street manners, not to mention run deep 10's if not high 9's with the right drivetrain combo.

I am not argueeing that big blocks can't be built to go just as fast(er), and might be able to do it with less outgoing cost. The big block has the advantage for sure with the added cubic inches. It really comes down to what a person wants.

With that said, the LS2 out of a TBSS with stock heads, mid 230* duration or bigger cam, headers, right gear/stall should have no problem getting a 3600-3800lb truck in to the low 12's - high 11's. Keep in mind the LS is retaining the stock rotating assembly etc. That is pretty cheap when you add it up.

$400 Custom cam
$250 valve springs
$150 push rods
$300 Injectors
$300-500 Tune

Both need
$?? Converter (wide range here, but needed with the big block too)
$?? Gears (again a wash)
$?? Headers (debateable which would be cheaper)

It's not like the Big Block doesn't have costs associated with it either that the LS motor wouldn't.
Carb
Intake
Heads
Building the shortblock

Not to get in to a pissing match, but let me ask this, how much money would it take to build a bare 454 block in to the high 11's? Or even a stock 454? I honestly don't know what it would cost and take.

[69GMC910]

I 100% agree the LS is a bada$$ engine.

There are $10,000 big blocks running 9's easy... It's everything else behind it that costs so much $$$!

I fully expect (fingers crossed!) to run mid 11's with my soon to arrive big block. As you said though, there are a pile of costs with both... I almost cried when I paid 700 bones for headers! Then there's the fuell cell, the fuel pump, the carburator, the distributor, the stall convertor, the rad fan, the rad..... Geez, where are my heart pills?!!

Once my drivetrain is done, I am hoping to be under $15,000.

[bigboybodry]

I am a big BBC guy and have been for years. If I were starting all over with out any parts I would start with an LS base engine. The thought of loosing a min. of 200lbs not counting years of technology poored into the new ls based engines. The cylinder heads flow as much if not more cfm than a bbc. The added crankshaft support etc... just an awsome engine! My brother runs these engine and I have been impressed. He tooked a junkyard bottom end LS6 short block 80k+/-miles, installed a custom solid roller stick, patriot stage 3 heads with a carb and plate kit shooting 250 in a 3350 pound car ran a 9.17. that just blows my mind. I would have to say a LS engine is the future....

[Super73]

Perhaps I am looking in the wrong place, but I don't see that many 9 second 3800lb NA big block trucks, let alone ones that only have 10k in to their motor set ups. I do how ever see a handfull of 10 second ones. But that leads me to ask, that handfull are they pump gas motors or high compression solid roller deals that require race gas and constant valvetrain adjustment.

Again, I'm not flaming the big blocks, just don't know a whole bunch about them.