How to remove front clip?

[shifty]

tried to install the LS1 tonight. tight garage space and interesting setup (load balancer getting in the way) is causing problems.

I need to remove my front clip while keeping the fenders and inner fenders on. What is the easiest way to do this safely? I know I can just get in and remove bolts, but I want advice and tips on how to do it right without worrying about having to realign everything later.

Thanks.

[John Fabris]

Are you talking about removing just the grill and radiator core support leaving the fenders in place, or removing the entire front clip?
If front clip, remove cowl, then you have two upper bolts and one lower bolt to remove per fender where it meets the cab. (watch for shims, and label them so you can re-assemble)
There is one more bolt thru the inside of each inner fender to the cab to remove.
Moving to the front, you have the two bolts for the radiator support. there may be a bracket on the driver side inner fender that needs to be removed. Other then that, the rest is wiring (unplug it at firewall), then two to four people (two "I feel strong" types, or four "I just came for the beer" types) to help lift it and walk it off. Note, the two radiator support bolts will give you trouble lifting the clip if you don't remove the bolts. I keep forgetting to pull them out :duh:

Just curious, "How much clearance do you need?"
Could you just use the hoist (without the load balancer,) to set the motor in place temporarily, then pick it back up with the balancer connected? Of course, this is assuming that you are using a normal engine hoist, but your "interesting setup" comment has me wondering.....

[shifty]

Originally Posted by John Fabris

Are you talking about removing just the grill and radiator core support leaving the fenders in place, or removing the entire front clip?

Yeah, you nailed it on the head.

I have the bumper and hood latch off, I just want to remove the piece holding the headlights and the grille. I'd like to take it off in one piece if possible. This is what I'm looking for tips on how to do easily so I don't putter around and take out five million bolts, then spend longer than it takes to put the engine/tranny in to actually get it back together.

Originally Posted by John Fabris

Just curious, "How much clearance do you need?"
Could you just use the hoist (without the load balancer,) to set the motor in place temporarily, then pick it back up with the balancer connected? Of course, this is assuming that you are using a normal engine hoist, but your "interesting setup" comment has me wondering.....

Let me go get some pictures and I'll show ya.

[shifty]

Okay, look...here's the deal. I'll write above each picture so you understand what the problem is.

I have a garage. It's not too tall and it's not very deep. If there wasn't an inclined driveway with a ditch about 1.5 carlengths away right outside the door, I'd do it out there. The garage has two stories of house above it or I'd make it bigger.

Look at this first picture of my sticking the engine + tranny in by myself in the garage. Note these things:

FIRST: I got the engine to the point that the oil filter was sitting on top of the engine tower. This doesn't show in the pictures. I understand I need to drop, tilt, drop, tilt. I've tried every conceivable way of making this go in, believe me.

Now, in the first picture below I'm using the 1 ton boom setting because if I go to ½ton, the arm of the hoist smacks into my garage door lift. Also, notice the proximity (the red lines) to the garage door itself. If I use the ½ ton setting, the hoist is eating into the door. If I open the door with the ½ ton setting, it's even closer thant the garage door lift, so I can't get the engine high enough to go in. So, I had to go with 1 ton arm position and lift to high hell. From a geometric standpoint, it looked and felt possible to me. Scraped my painted bumper a bit, but it needs a repaint anyway. I can't roll the truck out the door because it would take 5 musclebound arnold scwarzennegars (sp?) to push it back up the gradient out there garage because of the incline.




Now, here's the real deal. Because of the extreme angle with the 1ton setting you see below, when I try to get that lovely ECE GenIII motor mount down to its receiving piece to measure it up, this requires some swift maneuvering. I managed to get it within 5 inches, but the load leveller screwed me because the stupid handle and chains were smacking into the firewall, so it was physically impossible to make it work. I can't flip the load leveler handle the other way - if I do, the crank smacks into the hoist arm and I can't level the damned thing out.



So, you see, I'm suffering from too small of a space and, if I can manage to use the ½ton setting and remove the grille, bumper and front headlight thing, I can do the job.

[cableguy0]

what about if you jack up the front of the truck and push it a few inches over to clear the door opener track then you can extend the boom out on the crane. also if you tilted the engine a bit more from where its at now you could jack up the front of the truck and give yourself room to drop the motor in almost vertical and get it farther down cuz the floor wont be so close and interfere with the tail shaft. the level out the engine and get it to sit it belongs and put your bolts in the engine mounts

[shifty]

Originally Posted by cableguy0

what about if you jack up the front of the truck and push it a few inches over to clear the door opener track then you can extend the boom out on the crane

I might have damaged the harmonic balancer and lost a finger when I popped the bolt out of the arm with the engine attached. That's a no-go.

I looked at the grille and radiator support. There's about 2 dozen bolts holding the damned thing in and I got a goot amount of rust all through the rad support. Grille is ok. This would be a good time to replace it also. :\

Man, I did not want to spend more money on this thing yet. I need to make it a daily driver before I can afford that...gotta get this damned thing in.

So, there's no way at all to remove the grille and rad support in one piece by taking off just a couple of bolts?

[shifty]

PS - I just saw your edit. I only have one floor jack and no bottle jacks. That's a good idea, but i'll need the floor jack to lift the tranny up because there's no xmember in there right now.

[cableguy0]

use the leveler to get the tranny up.

[shifty]

good point. hmmm, ok, so i have two options.

take off the grille and rad support and know i can do it first time with no problems, or take a risky shot at attempt #2, fight to get it in only to measure up the mounts, pull it back out again, drill the mounts, then fight to get it in again.

which would you choose?

[cableguy0]

probably option 2 i aint never been known to take the easy way out. besides when its in you can always just lift it up a bit to drill the holes in the mounts. if you cant tell i hate realigning body panels. its a time consuming pain in the @ss and im impatient

[cableguy0]

besides it will fall into place once u jack the truck up and your gonna kick yourself for not thinking about it

[cdowns]

the problem i see is that you dont have the arm of the motor hoist extended far enough out// if u extend the arm out to the longest you'll be able to get it in by lowering the engine a bit then tiltilin the tranny up then push engine back lower a few inches lift tranny some more push engine back lower engine lift tranny push back// it's done just an inch or 2 at a time /// the way you've got the engine hoist now it won't get the engine back to the proper position

[Putter]

Originally Posted by shifty

This is what I'm looking for tips on how to do easily so I don't putter around and take out five million bolts, then spend longer than it takes to put the engine/tranny in to actually get it back together.

Ouch....you cut me deep there man!!!!

[shifty]

Sorry Putter, meant to say sputter.

Originally Posted by cdowns

the problem i see is that you dont have the arm of the motor hoist extended far enough out// if u extend the arm out to the longest you'll be able to get it in by lowering the engine a bit then tiltilin the tranny up then push engine back lower a few inches lift tranny some more push engine back lower engine lift tranny push back// it's done just an inch or 2 at a time /// the way you've got the engine hoist now it won't get the engine back to the proper position

For the record, we got the engine and tranny down into their respective areas in the pictures above. We were about 5" from the motor mounts touching each other, but it just wouldn't go in any farther. We got it in so far that the oil filter was touching the engine towers.

I had a chance to tinker with your option this morning with one of my friends and we didn't have much more luck. I'm going to try one last time with the load leveler flipped the other way, but if I try the third time and this doesn't work, I'll be pissed.

How hard is it just to remove the rad support and grille? I can't believe that it would be worse than what I'm dealing with right now. (maybe more time consuming, but ...)

[FormerMember]

why not take the WHOLE front clip off?

It's like 8 bolts? If you mark the shims' location, you'll have the panels back on.

Makes it way easier to do the exhaust and motor mounts.

[shifty]

Good point, Grendel. Maybe I'll just do that. I gotta think about exhaust and other stuff. Should help with wiring also.

I just couldn't believe there's not some easier way to take off the grille and rad support. I'll take Fabris' info above and go check it out.

[CPNE]

Originally Posted by grendel

why not take the WHOLE front clip off?

It's like 8 bolts? If you mark the shims' location, you'll have the panels back on.

Makes it way easier to do the exhaust and motor mounts.

It seems to me you are taking the hard and frustrating route. Do yourself a fovor and remove the front clip.

Pulling the front clip as a whole unit has always been easier for me that trying to wrestle, bull and jamb.. Once the wiper and cowl is off, it's < 20 bolts and with 3 or 4 guys it's easy to take off. Plus you already have the wiring harnesses removed. You should have done it before removing hood for 2 reasons; 1 - you don't have to realign hood, and 2 - It stengthens the clip by keeping everything aligned when lifting off. Realigning the whole clip as a unit is easy, far easier than realigning the hood by itself IMO

I'll never understand the mentality that does not see this as the path of least resistance. It's a 1/2 hr R&R and that time will repay itself 10 fold in ease of access for mounts, exhaust, accessories, etc

[shifty]

Thanks, CPNE. I was beginning to think I'm just a whiny titty baby. I've dumped and pulled inliners in this truck before, but nothing like what I'm doing now. I'm resourceful, just having issues and can't believe there ain't an easier way.

Question: What is the best way to lay the front clip down to keep stuff from bending? I noticed there's a fair amount of rust in the front corner of the fenders last night while taking off the bumper. I'm worried the fenders are gonna cave.

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by shifty

Good point, Grendel. Maybe I'll just do that. I gotta think about exhaust and other stuff. Should help with wiring also.

I just couldn't believe there's not some easier way to take off the grille and rad support. I'll take Fabris' info above and go check it out.

CustomC10 and I had the front clip of my 71 C10 in about an hour on Saturday. We were seriously lollygagging, too.

[CPNE]

Originally Posted by grendel

CustomC10 and I had the front clip of my 71 C10 in about an hour on Saturday. We were seriously lollygagging, too.

Maybe being Yankees gives the ability to "see the forest through the trees"

As far as setting that thing down, if the rust is bad enough to crush under the clip's weight, then you need to fix it anyway. I personally would protect the edges on the door end of the fenders to prevent paint chips and set it upright against a wall to keep it out of the way.

[stllookn]

Shifty, Just lay it directly on the ground...no problem. It will lay on the lower portion of the fenders that are already dirty and scratched from road gravel...however your truck looks pretty nice. You might just put some corrugated board or rags on the ground to avoid scratching the paint.

BTW...nice truck!

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by CPNE

Maybe being Yankees gives the ability to "see the forest through the trees"

As far as setting that thing down, if the rust is bad enough to crush under the clip's weight, then you need to fix it anyway. I personally would protect the edges on the door end of the fenders to prevent paint chips and set it upright against a wall to keep it out of the way.

Yep. Hood, front radiator support and all.

The longest time was spent talking about snapping turtles...

Also took a bit of time to get a booty-fab alt bracket off so I could get at the lower radiator hose.

Got to love Yankee Ingenuity.

[72CSTC5]

Hey just a thought shifty looking at this thread, will letting the air out of the front tires to lower the position of the truck a few inches help in letting you then lift your hoist higher to set the engine in position, but on the other hand, removing the front clip will be easier than just the grille I can tell you that. Good luck man.

[shifty]

Originally Posted by grendel

Also took a bit of time to get a booty-fab alt bracket off so I could get at the lower radiator hose.

Which reminds me - I gotta swap my manual steering box and pitman arm for a power steering box ... so between the steering box, exhaust and engine, this is something that needs to be done.

Thanks for chipping in guys. I tried the 1/2 ton setting and I was having a pain in the ass time getting around the support rails for the garage door and the center support/chain. I give up :\

[FormerMember]

Originally Posted by shifty

Which reminds me - I gotta swap my manual steering box and pitman arm for a power steering box ... so between the steering box, exhaust and engine, this is something that needs to be done.

Thanks for chipping in guys. I tried the 1/2 ton setting and I was having a pain in the ass time getting around the support rails for the garage door and the center support/chain. I give up :\

Going to be much easier with the entire front clip off.

It's also a good time to replace brake hard lines if they're original.