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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Unplug the booster and cap it. See if that makes a difference. Maybe your computer and engine had hydro boost???
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Good point. I'll try that. The hose was on the both manifolds when I got them. But I will check. I did pull the hose before with it running and put my thumb over it and there was no difference, but I don't know if the computer would let it fix that quickly.
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Very interested in seeing what this turns out to be. Keep plugging away....
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
If you used belt dressing on a serpentine belt the belt is doneand need to be replaced that stuff sucks and is a pain to get off the pullies
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Ok guys small update. Still waiting on new ECM to get here. But, figured a few things out.
The squeel is definitely the belt. I sprayed it and the pulleys down really good with carb cleaner, then tightened the belt more (manual tensioner). Almost got the squeek to go away, but I need to get a little smaller belt as I'm about to hit the other side of the belt running above the tensioner. So one problem mostly solved. The brake thing was my mistake. I didn't realize it but when I was pushing down on the brake pedal it was hitting the accelerator pedal bracket I fabbed up. Just on the edge. So it felt like I was bottomed out, but wasn't stopping. I made the adjustment and now they work great! Added a 120 ohm resistor on the datalink wires right before the datalink connector, per the information in one of the links provided Then rechecked the tranny. Found a major issue that I didn't realize was happening. The connector wasn't actually plugging in to the tranny! The connector is round with a thumb turn lock ring that cinches the plug into the tranny. The plug was going into the hole and the lock ring was cinching down, so I thought it was plugged in. But it was turning the plug as it locked down. I thought that was very odd. I couldn't figure out how that could work. So I messed with the connector a bit and the lock ring popped off. I lined up the correct pins with the plug and connector and shoved them in. Suddenly I had datalink communication!! Turns out the lock ring had slid down on the connector and wasn't pushing it in deep enough into the hole to engage the pins. So I fixed the lock ring and plugged it in properly! Now my tranny temp gauge registers also! Somehow this cured my idle problem too. Now she idles perfect! Very well mannered. So now (oddly enough) I have first gear and no other forward gears. I jave reverse and nuetral and park. Before when it wasn't plugged in correctly I had 3rd gear and no other forward gears. But now I can't get out of first. My understanding is that is because the computer tells it when to shift and that info is not being delivered to the TCM because of the incompatibility of the engine ECM and tranny TCM. I can't wait to get the new computer. Just in first alone the throttle response off the line is a beast! Can't wait to see what it will do when I get more gears! Posted via Mobile Device |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Been following this since you first started, glad you have most everything corrected...Jim
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Wow! that's some great troubleshooting....I have that same connector on my 4L80E....and will be very watchful when I connect it now.... thanks for covering that..
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
recheck your tranny fluid.
That is great news you found all those little issues. I didn't mention this earlier because I dont know much about these new new engines but my gen 3 had a 4l60E however I bought an aftermarket harness and it had provisions for both a 60 and an 80 tranny well I grabbed the wrong plug in my excitement and hooked up part of the 80 harness to my 60 and I only had one gear I believe first. I know the 4l80 tranny has an input and an output where the 4l60 only has an output or something like that (it has been a while since I set mine up) Anyway after getting all the right plugs things worked like a champ. That said double check all your wiring to your tranny. |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Thanks for the replies guys! I posted the info about the tranny plug in hopes that it would help others. I honestly just came upon it by chance. I couldn't figure out how the plug was Turning in the socket and engaging. Just didn't make sense. But the tranny was driving the truck, so I thought it was connected. And I wouldn't have figured it out until I got the new computer. Then it may have still been blamed on the mismatch of engine and tranny.
I've triple checked the wiring and tranny fluid. They are correct. On the scan tool I get two codes. One saying communication error, and one asking for the mil light to come on. That tells me the ECM and tranny aren't communicating. I'm hoping when the 2011 ECM arrives it will then communicate with the tranny. Fingers crossed! I do find it interesting that if the tranny isn't connected, I can drive around in 3rd gear. When the tranny is connected correctly, I can't get out of first. The ECM is supposed to tell the tranny when to shift out of first. So that is probably the reason it's staying in first. Also the 2008 6l80e tranny uses a brake switch wire to release the TCC. This gets wired to the ECM and also from the brake switch through the tranny plug into the TCM directly. On the 2011 tranny the wire still goes to the ECM, but that's it. There isn't a seperate wire that goes to the tranny. The ECM tells the Tcm when the brakes are applied and when to release the TCC. Small interesting changes. On the 2008 tranny most of the internal switches are normally open, on the 2011 tranny most of the internal switches are two position normally closed switches. Small changes cause big headaches!! Thanks GM! Posted via Mobile Device |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Any updates? Still waiting on pictures.....:D. Also, the Corvette pedal plug has 6 wires:
purple light blue light brown dark brown dark blue white and black |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Sorry. No updates yet. Waiting on the computer. Thank you for the pin out. Sorry about the pics. I have been swamped. I'm in the middle of this engine swap. I'm adding a bathroom and a laundry room to my house also. Also have to get the AC system completely replaced in the house. And i have to get the suburban done. All before the beginning of August. That's when baby number 4 is due. Somewhere between August 8-15 (although I told the Dr. I think he will come August 2nd). That is why I have been so flakey on my photo commitments. I will get them tomorrow though.
Shawn Shawn Posted via Mobile Device |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
5 Attachment(s)
As promised, a few pics. I'm almost embarrassed to post these since I haven't had a chance to clean anything up yet. Hopefully they will help a few folks out. I put the engine in without modifying the driveshaft at all. It put the engine pretty far forward. If I had it to do over I would probably cut down the driveshaft and move the engine back a couple of inches. Still may do it after I make sure everything is up and running correctly.
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Don't know why they are all sideways. they weren't that way when I uploaded them.
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
check trans fuses again
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Thanks for the advice. I checked the fuses one more time. They are all good. As an experiment I pulled the fuse for the tranny, then I drove it around the block. Only ha third gear. Then I put the fuses back in. I only had first gear. This seems to validate the two things I have been told about these trannies.
1) When the tranny has no power, it goes in limp mode, third gear only. 2) The 2008 Ecm is not communicating correctly with the 2011 TCM (different operating systems) So the tranny is functioning correctly, but the ECM isn't telling it when to shift, therefore it stays in first gear. We will see when the new 2011 ECM gets here. |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
GM makes wiring/pinout changes regularly....I sure hope you don't run into an issue changing ECM's.
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
We looked at the pinouts (or rather Jon at PSI did). He said they appear to be the exact same pinouts. I was concerned about that also.
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
I am sure the shifting is speed dependent, that said make sure you have the speed output from the tranny also hooked up. If you can drive it with a scanner running check to see if you have speed output into the computer and that is correct or atleast close to what you are running. I know that can really mess with them
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Thanks for that. There isn't an external speed output on the 6l80e. The scanner does show correct speed when hooked up.
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Great (I guess). I thought my gen 3 stuff was pretty hi tech but this looks like it is even better lol.
I had held back on much input only because mine is like I said the Gen 3 so I knew they had some big differences but also some similarities. We are rooting for you so we are anxious to see it run and run right. |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Thank you for offering suggestions. I hope I'm not coming across as a naysayer. I need all of the support I can get. I really appreciate your input and taking time to post your ideas. I guess I just need to wait for the new ECM (if it will ever get here). We will go from there.
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
^Amazon Prime....I don't wait more than a day for anything..... :)
Does your scanner allow shift commands? I know some of the fancy ones can command individual gears, though usually its easier just to do in HP Tuners. I know you've had 1st, and 3rd, but I'd really be interested to see if you can command all the gears. This may not even be an option without the 2011 ecm as I'd assume the scanner would have to hook to the OBDII port then through the ecm to command the TCM...but I was sitting here and figured it would be worth tossing out. |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Ha! I usually don't wait more than 2-3 days. However, the yard I got the engine from doesn't have a 2011 ECM. Jon over at PSI is getting me one for no cost because of a mix up with the wiring harness. So I just got word from him that his supplier said it will be to him by Friday then he will be sending it my way.
Unfortunately my scanner is not quite that capable. I wish it were. Posted via Mobile Device |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
We are back for updates? Any good word?
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Just got notified the computer is shipped today. As soon as I get it installed I will let everyone know where we stand! Keep your fingers crossed!!
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
cool, I hope it works great... fingers are crossed.
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Standing by...Jim
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
UPDATE:
Got the new computer today and she now shifts through all gears. I was all excited that I took her for a little spin down the freeway. She ran pretty good, then something odd happened. She had no throttle response at all. I coasted her off the freeway and came to a stop. There was no response from the pedal at all. She just idled.I could hear it go in gear, but wouldn't move. So I turned it off. turned it back on and it idled like crap. But would idle forward (instead of idling and not moving at all), but ran like total crap.So I idled it another half mile towards the house when I decided to stop again. I then pulled the fuses for the tranny, started her up, and had third gear (like before I got the new computer). It drove just fun. So I stopped and put the fuses back in and it drove fine again. I drove it for awhile (didn't hammer it like I did when I first drove it on the freeway) and it drove and shifted fine. Then I drove it to pick up one son from daycare and it drove fine. It shifts a little odd, but that may be in the tune. Again I didn't hammer it the second time. So pulled a couple of codes from it that I'm a little confused about. I cleared them and they reappeared. I got codes p0641 and p0651 and P2122 and p2123. The first two are low 5v reference, I think for some ac and fuel pump reference voltage. It may need to be programmed out of the ecm still, so I'm not terribly worried about those. The other two p2122 an p2123 are the ones I'm confused about. They are low and high voltage on the APP sensor. I didn't have this code on the other ECM that I was running before. Literally I unplugged the other ECM (with no code except ac refrigerant sensor) and plugged the new one in. So I have a few questions: The new ECM is from a 2011 silverado with a 4.8 engine, is the pin out any different than the pin out for a 5.3 or 6.2 ECM? My alldata is for a 2011 5.3 ECM and the APP pinout is identical. I just don't know why it would throw those APP codes unless the pinout is different for the 4.8 vs the 5.3. Is there any difference in stock torque convertors on the 6l80e in the 4.8, 5.3 or 6.2? I can't seem to find this info anywhere, and I'm curious if this is the reason for the delay after pushing the gas pedal and when the truck accelerates. It feels a little exaggerated. This may just be in the tune also. The computer is tuned for a 4.8. Is there a tremendous difference in what the power and drivability should be when I get it tuned for the 6.2? May seem like a dumb question, and I'm sure it will. Actually I'm rally hoping so. I'm not terrifically impressed power wise, but it may just be the tune and tranny controls that need adjusting. Thanks for the help guys!! Shawn |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Get the right tune in it. That'll make a huge difference in power. You've got nearly 2L extra displacement that isn't being fueled for and potentially totally different timing curves which are likely having a considerable effect on your engine's efficiency.
Have you actually measured the voltages being supplied to and returned by the APP? The PCM may be onto something you don't know about yet... Perhaps the pedal is travelling too far and is causing an over-range condition and putting your PCM into limp mode? You may want to consider purchasing EFI live or HP tuners to work on some of this stuff yourself. You can load your own operating systems, tunes etc into your own vehicle and also have a very powerful scan tool at your disposal then too. Gotta love this stuff hey? Mixing and matching can be a real challenge. This is one of the reasons why I always buy a complete running donor when doing this kind of a swap. You never know if it is a pre-existing issue with the engine due to a sensory failure, mechanical problem or if it is your wiring / install that is to blame. If it worked before, it should work when installed properly, lol! |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Yes tune it, I would not hammer on it till you do. The amount of fuel required for the 6.2 will be much different that that for the 4.8. Plus I would expect the injectors are different so that calibration will need to be accounted for. I would be very cautious until you get a better base tune.
OK, I have hp tuners so I grabbed a stock 4.8 and 6.2 from the repository. It appears they both have the same tranny I think. However there are different settings on the tranny depending on which one either the 6.2 or 4.8. Plus there are some huge differences in the injectors so yes It might run but not right with the smaller tune. If you can get a stock 6.2 tune flashed on there it might clear up most of these problems. Be careful till you do. |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Great! Thank you guys so much. It sets my mind at ease a little. I will hopefully get it tuned tomorrow. Thanks again guys!!
Shawn Posted via Mobile Device |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Those app sensor codes have happened to me before. Bascially they happen to the DBW stuff when the input power drops too low. This happens when the idle drops or you have an instant load which decreases available system power to the ecm and DBW.
I've had this happen with my hydroboost installation. I was slowing down, big load came on the engine from the hydroboost (same thing would happen with a/c, high amp alt, EDC etc). The rpm dropped, engine couldn't catch idle fast enough with the big cam and it stalled then caught right back up. Output voltage stops from the alt, and the engine gets a temporary low power output fault. I did a battery reset, pinged the ecm and cleared codes/flags, and re-started, letting it settle into idle for about 3 minutes. Code never came back. |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
UPDATE! She is running and driving almost perfect!!! Got the tune done and she is a beast. I am extremely impressed!! The tuner did what he does, turned down torque management (he doesn't like to turn it completely off). We drove it around a little after the tune and all I can say is WOW! Money well spent. It will spin the tires a little from a stop but gain traction quickly. Then chirps the tires hard when 2nd gear hits. Blew the doors off a newer Escalade at a stop light.
Still trying to work a couple of things out you guys may be a le to help with. I get a p0108 code(high map sensor voltage) the minute I turn the ignition on. I. He med voltage and it appears to be correct. I changed the map sensor anyway and still get the error. I get 5v at ignition on. Ground wire is good. And 1.1 volts at idle from PCM wire. The voltage goes up accordingly as the throttle increases. Also the engine keeps going into limp mode at WOT or even steady 3/4 throttle. Only code is p0108. I read somewhere that if the map sensor reads above 4.7 volts for more than 4 seconds it can do this. Any ideas? Thanks again guys! I'm super stoked to have it running, even in its hampered state. Posted via Mobile Device |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
You swapped out ECU's for one from a 2011 model, correct?
Is the new MAP sensor for the same year? There may be a different value between the different model years. Like the ECU is looking for X volts and the MAP is showing Y. |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Any updates?
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Hey all! Sorry for the delay. Had another baby on the 16th. Then momma had to go back to the hospital for a week, so things have been pretty crazy. She is out now and things are looking good.
As for the suburban, I'm still having a little issue. I put a new AC delco map sensor in, new spark plugs and wires, and changed out one coil that was broken where the spark plug goes in. Then I was getting the MAF p0102 and the IAT p0113 codes. I put a new MAF in and made sure the contacts were all connecting. Things were working great! I was stoked. No codes, no errors, no misfires. Then while on the freeway I really got on it. She shut down on me. Limp mode. No pedal response. I got a wierd code, p1380 misfire rough road, and p1381 misfire detected no communication with brake module. I also got p0606 control module performance and p0300 misfire detected. I cleared them and drove it. Now I keep getting p0606 and p0300 even when i clear the codes. I even disconnected the battery for a day and immediately got the codes when I turned the ignition on. Not even running and I get the codes. It seems to drive ok, not as powerful as it was before. But goes out on me when I'm really on the gas. If I drive it nice and easy then no problems, but I want to be able to really get after it sometimes, but when I do it craps out on me. Do you think it's in the tune? The guy that did the tune says that he transferred all of the tables in from a stock '08 escalade into the ECM. Then he tweaked like he normally would. I am really frustrated. If I would have just had the '08 tranny like was supposed to be I don't think I would have half of these problems. The 2011 ECM was for a 4.8 engine, at least that is wat the scantool says. He had to change a bunch of tables that were way way off. Any ideas or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Shawn Posted via Mobile Device Posted via Mobile Device |
Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
Was he able to verify the tune after installing? I only ask as I've heard of tuners transferring the file twice sometimes....just to be sure?
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Re: She won't fire up. Please help me! I"m at a complete loss!
I have no idea. I don't even know that I understand wat that means or how to ask him about it. Can you elaborate a little bit? I know I've been to see him twice now. Once for the first tune. The second time to correct the limp mode that always happened when I went WOT for more than 4 seconds. Now I just holimp mode sometimes at WOT. Not all the time. And generally it's when I've been running a lot longer than 4 seconds, more about 15-20 seconds or so, sometimes less though.
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