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-   -   Help with fuel system design for LS1 install (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=349201)

LowLifeS10 12-28-2013 06:16 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Is this the return style fuel system?

http://i42.tinypic.com/1036ej7.jpg

LS-K 01-09-2014 12:02 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
BUMP. I've got the same question LLS10

CamaroChris 01-09-2014 01:06 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
No the black hose sucks fuel vapors from the tank for emissions

LS-K 01-09-2014 02:00 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Thanks CC. This eliminates one thing out of the fuel enigma.

McMud 01-09-2014 04:40 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Hey Guys,

i also ordered a 06 LQ4 to swap it into my 1797 Suburban.
The Seller told me that i have the Rail System with the Return Line, so no Vette Filter.
Should i use filter before or after the 255 Walbro?
Does anybody of you know what size and type of connections a 79 Fuel Tank has?
Does this Fuel Tank have a Connection for a return line?

Greets From Austria :-)

littlevictories 01-09-2014 11:20 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McMud (Post 6461349)
1797 Suburban.


damn, that's an oldie! didn't know Napoleon was a GM guy!

ls1nova71 01-09-2014 11:48 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McMud (Post 6461349)
Hey Guys,

i also ordered a 06 LQ4 to swap it into my 1797 Suburban.
The Seller told me that i have the Rail System with the Return Line, so no Vette Filter.
Should i use filter before or after the 255 Walbro?
Does anybody of you know what size and type of connections a 79 Fuel Tank has?
Does this Fuel Tank have a Connection for a return line?

Greets From Austria :-)

2006 seems awful late to still have a return style fuel rail. Your '79 tank will just have hose pushed on the sender and clamped. If you are planning to run an external fuel pump, it would be in your best interest to use some kind of a pre filter to keep any junk out of the pump. People have run them without a filter, but you are taking a chance, and if it's worth doing, in my opinion I would do it once and be done with it. That said, your even better option would be to get a '87 tank and sender and put a Walbro 255 pump in the tank. That is if an '87 tank will fit a 1797 Suburban. :lol: Pretty sure you meant 1979?

McMud 01-10-2014 02:48 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Hahahaha yes Napoleon was a Chevy Guy, thats why he called himself an Imperator :D
no just mistake, it's an 1979 ;-) According the seller is has the fuel rail with the return line, the engine will arrive end of January here.
The idea with the 87 tank is nice, but it's hard to get one here in Europe, so i want to use the Russell 650133 Filter before the Pump, so there can be nothing damaged by junk, is that possible?

ls1nova71 01-10-2014 03:54 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McMud (Post 6463081)
Hahahaha yes Napoleon was a Chevy Guy, thats why he called himself an Imperator :D
no just mistake, it's an 1979 ;-) According the seller is has the fuel rail with the return line, the engine will arrive end of January here.
The idea with the 87 tank is nice, but it's hard to get one here in Europe, so i want to use the Russell 650133 Filter before the Pump, so there can be
nothing damaged by junk, is that possible?

Guess you'll just have to wait and see when it shows up on whether or not its a returnless rail, but if it isn't I would be suspect om the year of the engine. Also a 40 micron filter may be a little too restrictive. Ideally you would want around a 100 micron filter. Heres what I've used in the past, work well and reasonably priced, but not sure what shipping to Austria would do to the savings. http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/filters.html

LS-K 01-10-2014 03:56 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
I read everyone talking about this "87 tank". What GM/Chevy model are you folks referring to? What's so special or unique about this tank, and why an '87 only?

Thanks in advance.

My build:
'82 K10 4x4.
Short bed with 350/700R4

Swapping in an '05 CTS-V LS6.

ls1nova71 01-10-2014 06:30 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LS-K (Post 6463122)
I read everyone talking about this "87 tank". What GM/Chevy model are you folks referring to? What's so special or unique about this tank, and why an '87 only?

Thanks in advance.

My build:
'82 K10 4x4.
Short bed with 350/700R4

Swapping in an '05 CTS-V LS6.

1987 Chevy truck. Its a bolt in tank for '73-'87 trucks, but sinceGM switched to fuel injection in '87, its set up for an in tank pump with the correct baffling to keep starvation issues at a minimum.

LS-K 01-10-2014 06:34 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
That's awesome

Thanks LS1Nova.

So I can pick one up from RockAuto specifically made for the R/V series '87 trucks and that's wah-la?

McMud 01-10-2014 07:16 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
I think it's not wah-la, you have to change the pump in the Tank, but there are some kits on the market, Walbro etc.. i think the the 87 Pump won't bring enough pressure for your injection system.
Thanks LS1 Nova for the Link to the Filter!

LS-K 01-10-2014 07:24 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Haha "wah-la". Yea I knew I'd be needing a better pump than what was offered in 87. I wish I had a part number so there wouldn't be a doubt about what tanks I exactly need. Thanks for all the help. I've been reading a whole lot on this swap sub forum and I have gained lots of knowledge.

solidaxel 01-10-2014 09:48 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LS-K (Post 6463148)
That's awesome

Thanks LS1Nova.

So I can pick one up from RockAuto specifically made for the R/V series '87 trucks and that's wah-la?

Merle's has them on the shelf, sending units for a 87 also and a fuel pump for a 2002 Camaro and ready too go !!

LS-K 01-10-2014 11:09 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Now that I have to look into.

bL.A.zer90045 02-12-2014 12:55 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suburban_Tyler (Post 6328771)
I was doing some reading about fuel pumps and pressures and come across this on another forum. Thought I'd share if it's not already here somewhere.

Here is a little fuel pump tech…..

Just a little background. I’m installing a 2004 5.3 in a 9 GMC Sierra. When the fuel pump question came up I read that you needed to use a Delco EP241. To double check this I called S&P and they said also to use a EP241. Just for giggles ( after I installed the EP241 in the tank and truck ), I checked the specs on these pumps. Now what I got were specs from Airtex book where I work at Carquest.

EP241 ( E3210 Airtex) = Flow= 40 gph & PSI = 65-75
Now that pressure reading is right on the head of the pump at the lab and if you take into account filters and lines and lengths, it’ll probably equate to 50-55 psi… should be.

I wasn’t to impressed with those # and did some checking. I went up in years and found the EP381 pump used in the early vortec trucks, cyclones, ect….and here are it’s #’s

EP381 (E3270 Airtex) = Flow = 50-60 GPH & PSI = 80-90
Here again that psi rating is under perfect conditions at the lab and on the head of the pump. It should yield you a 70-80psi in the vehicle.

I called Airtex and talked to their guy Craig there. He confirmed these numbers I have here and inquired what I was working on. I told him and he said.. quote “ you should never use a EP241 on a vortec or LS1 motor” Craig went on to explain that it would work but the pump would be working itself to death to maintain the pressure and that would shorten the lifespan dramatically. He also explained that the EP381’s were manufactured with a new thin magnet design which yielded a lot higher torque that the EP241’s. They were specifically designed to work on Vortec & LS1 style engines. Also he said the current draw on the EP380 would be significantly less than the EP241, less current = less heat=longer life.
The EP241 is designed to work with TPI & MPI and should only be used in this application

I had my pump out fixing a split hose anyway so I went ahead and got the EP381, well our Airtex E3270.

Just wanted to pass along this little tid-bit of information. I know you guys with newer trucks already have high flow high pressure pumps in the tanks from the factory. But maybe this will help others with their modifications.

does the 381 fit directly into a 87-91 efi tank? would i use a 87 hanger assembly?im putting a 5.3 lm7 into my 86 k5.thanks!!!

ls1nova71 02-12-2014 11:42 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bL.A.zer90045 (Post 6522141)
does the 381 fit directly into a 87-91 efi tank? would i use a 87 hanger assembly?im putting a 5.3 lm7 into my 86 k5.thanks!!!

It will fit a factory 87-up sender, but do yourself a favor and don't buy an Airtex unless your idea of a good time is dropping a fuel tank to replace a dead pump. Been there a few too many times.

solidaxel 02-14-2014 12:01 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
any updates?

jamesjones 02-14-2014 12:31 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
How about a Walbro 400? I don't need it now but plan on going FI in the future and would like the headroom.

solidaxel 02-14-2014 07:15 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesjones (Post 6525611)
How about a Walbro 400? I don't need it now but plan on going FI in the future and would like the headroom.

Is a Walbro pump better and cheaper than a stock 2002 Camaro in tank pump for a 5.7?

jamesjones 02-14-2014 08:35 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by solidaxel (Post 6526176)
Is a Walbro pump better and cheaper than a stock 2002 Camaro in tank pump for a 5.7?

It's certainly better, and pretty cheap too...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WALBRO-F9000...a2cb09&vxp=mtr

dman1982 03-10-2014 05:58 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
ok I've read this whole thing...waaaayyy confused....im dropping in a 04 5.3 into a k10, already got the sending unit and the fuel pump, and just ordered the corvette filter...do i need a regulator?

LS-K 03-10-2014 06:01 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Dman

That corvette filter is a dual purpose filter. It filters and regulates the fuel. No need for a separate regulator.

dman1982 03-10-2014 06:05 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Awesome!!!! Thanks buddy...I'm not really getting discouraged but I got a good deal on my motor and tranny...but when I pulled off my diff cover and was missing a bunch of teeth on my spider gears lets just say that put my over my budget some...so I can go ahead and get rid of all these old fuel lines?

dman1982 03-10-2014 06:19 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
this was one of my biggest worries about doing this swap...is there any way to hook up the fuel system without flaring tools or soldering? just easy connectors and what not?

dman1982 03-10-2014 06:22 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
holy cow i havnt felt like such a dummy in a long time!!!! maybe i should have saved some face and stayed old school lol

dman1982 03-10-2014 07:39 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
since I'm switching out this whole fuel system anyways should i take out the old lines? is there any way to hook up the fuel system without flaring tools or soldering? just easy connectors and what not? bueler? kinda hurting here

truckdude239 03-10-2014 09:51 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Dman i used compression fittings to an hoses

dman1982 03-10-2014 09:54 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by truckdude239 (Post 6568525)
Dman i used compression fittings to an hoses

this may be a rather dumb question...but what do you mean by compression fittings?

the reason i ask I'm new to this swap and this fuel system...and I've dealt with a bunch of different fittings

dman1982 03-11-2014 09:13 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by laynrockers (Post 5550717)
Ok hoping to bring this thread back to life..

I have a shopping list of the following (see attached picture)

Now what fittings do i need to connect to the SS hose? and How do i make that connection??

so this is what i need for a return less system right? and what are the qty i need for each? and the braided fuel line size? 3/8?

mooseknuckles 03-11-2014 09:47 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
you can use your old lines from the tank to the regulator/filter and connect it with fuel injection hose, dual clamp it to be sure.. I then ran a -6an line form reg. to fuel rail...all the proper fittings are available, do a search...there are tons of threads on this.

dman1982 03-11-2014 09:51 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
i seen a bunch, it just get confusing trying to go through the return less and return systems, kinda a dumb question but another thing that confuses me is i have three lines coming off my sender, then only two go into filter one leaves the filter to goto the fuel rail, what is done with the third line on the sender?

mooseknuckles 03-11-2014 09:56 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dman1982 (Post 6569251)
i seen a bunch, it just get confusing trying to go through the return less and return systems, kinda a dumb question but another thing that confuses me is i have three lines coming off my sender, then only two go into filter one leaves the filter to goto the fuel rail, what is done with the third line on the sender?

biggest line is supply, then return and other is vent...some have 4, with the fourth one being for charcoal canister crap...just take your time, do some research it's all pretty simple, just overwhelming at first...

dman1982 03-11-2014 09:57 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mooseknuckles (Post 6569259)
biggest line is supply, then return and other is vent...some have 4, with the fourth one being for charcoal canister crap...just take your time, do some research it's all pretty simple, just overwhelming at first...

very overwhelming is more like it!!!!

gearjammer80 03-13-2014 01:05 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Can I use a 2000 silverado fuel pump in a 90 blazer tank, what kinds of modification is needed if so?

1980c-10 mybaby 09-11-2014 07:38 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
if ive got a 99 lm7 5.3 motor which has a feed and return built into the motor do i have to run the return all the way from my fuel rail back to the tank(leaving 1 port open on the regulator) or can i run in back to the regulator(3 ports used) and just have the feed come from the tank????

read this whole thing and have not found and answer yet.

ls1nova71 09-11-2014 10:55 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1980c-10 mybaby (Post 6838662)
if ive got a 99 lm7 5.3 motor which has a feed and return built into the motor do i have to run the return all the way from my fuel rail back to the tank(leaving 1 port open on the regulator) or can i run in back to the regulator(3 ports used) and just have the feed come from the tank????

read this whole thing and have not found and answer yet.

By "regulator" I assume you mean Corvette filter/regulator? If so, don't use that. You don't need a $50 filter with a return style rail. Run the feed from your pump, through a regular fuel injection rated filter to the rail, and then the return to the tank, simple as that, and a lot less costly.

yossarian19 09-11-2014 11:16 AM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
^ What he said.
The C5 filter / regulator is NOT the part you want when using the return-line style engines. That is for the second run of LS stuff with the "returnless" fuel rails.

I used an LS1 Camaro fuel filter with my return-line type LS swap. Annoying to plumb without resorting to AN fittings but it can be done cheap and, I'm sure, with AN it's easy.

1980c-10 mybaby 09-11-2014 02:41 PM

Re: Help with fuel system design for LS1 install
 
ok perfect thanks guys i just wanted to make sure i was going about the fuel system thr right way. i guess ill run external fuel pump also. you guys running to the pump off a switch or ignition? im planning to have to rewire the entire burban when i get it anyways.


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