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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
Ok folks, one question while I consider the fact that there is a good chance that this engine is coming out of the truck. I have reconciled it in my mind and have begun to make a list of "while I'm at it" tasks, mostly cleaning up and painting the block.
So the question is, I've lifted an engine out of a car before and even have an engine hoist and stand my good friend gave me when he sold me the truck (maybe he knew this would happen). There are good bolt holes on the exhaust/intake manifold of the engine to attach the hoist chains, where on the distributor side of the engine is a good place to attach? Thanks Bob |
Re: Eliminate draft tube options
Sorry I cant help as it's been a couple of years and stuff like that falls off the memory shelf as more stuff is added to the front side, loo. I usually look for a good sized hole as high up on the engine as possible so it doesnt try to flip over, keep it heavy on the bottom side. Also dont simply use a single chain and a slip hook or clevis so the chain can slide around. A single chain can be used but make it so where the host is connected it is unable to slide, otherwise as soon as the engine is lifted off the mount and comes free of the trans the heavy end of the engine will try to find the floor and the light end will find the engine hoist hook.
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
Today I bought a leveler that attaches to the hoist hook and it has four chains hanging from it to attach to the engine. Then the balance point can be adjusted to attempt to shift the center of balance accordingly.
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
when I think back I remember using a couple of old head bolt holes with some home made lifting eyes welded on to the head of the bolt. then a chain between them to lift the engine with. these are pretty heavy engines so using the exhaust/intake bolts may end up breaking a bolt off because of the leverage applied due to the length of the bolt when the manifold is still on there and the engle it is being pulled at. the bolt is made to take strain lateral to the bolt, not at an angle. if you remove the maifolds and attach a lift bracket to a couple of the bolts maybe, because then the strain is placed across a couple of bolts instead of one and the length of the bolt would be shorter, but using a single bolt back there could end up in disaster. even if you know somebody with the shop manual, or can find one online, the manual would likely say "install kent moore tool number Jxxxx in location shown in figure Y" but not show the acftual tool or the actual locations. lol.
anyway, since the head will likely be comng off anyway, possibly remove a front right and a rear left head bolt, grab a cople of bolts like them only longer, make up an L bracket with a hole on each side of the L that will allow the bolt to slip through on one side of the L and a small clevis to slip through hole in the other side, and then attach the bracket to the engine with the "new" head bolts. that way the bolts are taking the strain like a bolt is designed to, from under the bolt head, and the engine leveller will span the distance between the two brackets and connect to the clevises on the L brackets. dunno if that made sense but its as clear as mud in my head, haha. I have a piece of an old jackall jack beam that I use for an engine leveller. if is pretty strong and has all those holes in the web of the beam. I can place a clevis on each end that connects via chain to the engine, and then another clevis where it needs to be in the middle somewhere to level the engine when lifted. its a poor man's engine leveller that I made up from scrap before I knew about the fancy pants engine levellers (that work better). I did a quick search and found this https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-hoist.776413/ I also have some home mades of these https://www.amazon.ca/OTC-7100-Lifti...cd4328c79d0710 if your engine leveller looks like this you already have the L brackets I was mentioning and could connect them to the "new" head bolts. you don't wanna chance dropping the engine at this point. https://www.amazon.ca/2000LBS-OKSTEN...7190ca32054677 |
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I suppose if you removed the thermostat housing a bracket could be made to use those two bolt holes to connect the front of the engine.
just found this showing the head bolt attachments with an engine leveller. https://www.trifive.com/threads/engi...chment.232546/ hope that helps |
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I have a leveler like the one you showed from Amazon and it has the L-shaped brackets attached to the chain. I liked the photo showing the engine attachment points front and back, that looks workable, but again I'm likely to wait on pulling the engine until my new friend gets here. Again, thanks for the photos, info, and advice. Bob |
Re: Eliminate draft tube options
I’ve used lifting straps/slings like this for awkward lifts.
https://superslings.ca/products/2-pl...SABEgIkm_D_BwE Ratchet straps might work better. https://www.amazon.ca/STANLEY-S1007-...207a39831&th=1 |
Re: Eliminate draft tube options
I have a 3/4 poly or nylon rope I keep for lifting engines without lifting points, outboards, truck beds and such. Even a single strand is plenty strong enough for a 600 pound engine. By the time you have gone under the crank pully, between engine and trans/flywheel for 4 lifting strands you have a large safety factor. The stuff I have is from a marine place, more durable than the typical hardware store yellow poly. You could use lighter rope, just use more. Pad any sharp corners with rags. Use lighter rope around the head horizontally to secure the lift ropes fore and aft, you could also tie off to the manifold bolts. Find the balance point and mouse the hook (tie ropes securely to each other just under hook). for a tall narrow six I'd also tie the ropes together just above the head so the engine could not roll over in the rope sling. you should end up with a secure web of rope that is not going anywhere
lifting with rope vs chain: chain is harder to inspect for flaws and more prone to sudden failure. Rope is subject to fraying at sharp corners under strain Lifting with chain and prepared lift points you can use an engine leveler. dsraven's idea of using a farm jack beam as lift beam could also be used with ropes tying it to engine |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
well, now you done it.
it will be lighter and easier to handle with parts missing, lol. are you gonna wait and see what your new friend says before you pull more off? if it comes down to it and some machining will be done, I would imagine the machinist will want the pistons/rods out of the way so the head will need to come off, crank, cam and lifters out etc. if that is the case, and you are the engine guy, remove the head bolts in the same order you would do it if you were torquing up the head bolts. that can help eliminate the head warping. use some short lengths of rubber hose over the con rod bolts so as not to damage the crank if they rattle past a journal on their way out.you might as well get ready by making a few fixtures to keep everything in order. I use a length of 2x2 or 2x4 with some large holes drill into it for holding the lifters. mark the front with a screw, or something other than a felt marker, as the oil will make that go away or at least hard to read. smooth the edges etc so no sawdust gets in the engine on assembly. something to hold the pushrods as well, same deal with marking them to keep in order front to rear. some will say it doesn't matter for pushrods but hey, why not, they have wear surfaces like anything else so might as well keep the mating parts together, top to top, bottom to bottom. a box with dividers, like a tough version of a wine box has, works well for pistons to sit into. make sure to mark the orientation of the pistons (if not already, it was rebuilt so they should be marked) and keep the rod bearing caps matched to their rods and also their orientation to the rod (the divets in the ends of the rod bearings are on the same side), these should also have marks from the rebuilder. an old coffee can with some small holes punched into the bottom works well for holding all the bolts. I usually have a bucket for top end bolts and one for bottom end bolts. make sure the holes are smaller than the smallest bolt so nothing falls through, I use a small nail but a drill also works if you have the time. spray the bucket parts with your cleaner of choice, use a parts washing brush, paint brush or whatever to agitate and remove oil or other dirt, allow to sit for awhile, then spray off and dry. I usually use hot water and then blow dry as good as possible while still in the can, then spray liberally with wd40 to stop corrosion. a larger bucket of cleaner can be used to submerge the smaller bucket of parts for soaking. make sure to be very careful with any engine bearing as cleaners can react with the bearing material. dish or laundry soap is a go-to for a lot of home rebuild guys. mark the bearings top and bottom on the back side or place them in a holder that is marker, like an egg crate, so the related parts can be cleaned properly before assembly. the bearing shell and the con rod/cap or engine block/cap need to be properly cleaned because a small particle makes a dent in the shell and then.....not good. for buffing up the gasket surfaces the roloc style surface conditioning discs work well https://www.amazon.ca/Scotch-Brite-0.../dp/B0002STR8Q if pulling the engine and leaving the trans in the truck beware that the torque tube/rear of trans needs to be supported so it doesn't drop and cause damage to itself. take pics before you dissassemble so when it is assembly time you can "remember" how things were |
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a tray like this could be made out of wood you may have laying around. less holes would be needed because the head wouldn't be coming apart. a hole for the lifter and the corresponding pushrod, marked for front. when removing the rocker shaft put a wrap of wire on the front end for marking.
diesel fuel works pretty well for a cleaner and also lubricates if not washed off. garden sprayer works well for pressurizing a stream to wash out oil galleries etc. |
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1) I'm a very impatient kind of guy. After talking to a buddy that has swapped more engines than I have owned cars, he feel certain that for a new end cap to be properly fitted the engine is coming out no matter what.
2) great idea on using a piece of wood to hold the lifters and the push rods, I'll get on that this weekend (oops almost forgot that its our wedding anniversary this weekend) 3) this truck doesn't have a torque tube. Since the previous owner had installed a 4-speed from a 1967 Camaro, it has a typical drive shaft, in fact the drive shaft is new since I had to center the rear axle (he never got around to doing that). Once centered, the old drive shaft was 1 1/2 inches too short. I had a local old fashioned drive shaft shop build me a new one. In fact, I've already removed it. 4) This truck has a custom, hand made/machined) shifter mechanism due to the different transmission and bell housing. I'm going to attempt to remove the trans before pulling the engine. 5) Photos have already begun and all bolts, etc have been bagged and labeled. |
Re: Eliminate draft tube options
anniversary trumps everything, unless you LIKE sleeping with the dog. haha.
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Today was a short work day since its our wedding anniversary 238 years (that's in dog years...LOL).
Had to lift the newly installed carpet, lift the transmission floor section and then removed the hand made shifter mechanism that the previous owner crafted, interesting piece of kit. (photo below) Attachment 2324690 Then pulled the GM 4-speed transmission, it was like wrestling a greased pig. If it were 1/4 longer it would still be in the truck. Attachment 2324691 I have a question on the lifter gallery. Should the oil tubing be this bent? Can I buy a replacement? What is it called? Attachment 2324692 |
Re: Eliminate draft tube options
Oil tube was likely mis-shaped during an engine teardown. If it isn't kinked or flattened just use it again.
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
Not a hand made shifter. It’s called a t&f shifter. No longer made though. Link below.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=627968 Tip for you when removing or replacing transmissions. Leave it in 1st gear or reverse. That way you can easily turn the input shaft if needed for spline lie up. |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
the line would be pretty easy to duplicate if it were taken off. thats if you have a tubing bender and a flaring tool. not likely you will find a new line with the correct fittings alredy on the tube. you could have one made for you at a hydraulic shop pretty cheap as well. it just needs to span from point A to B and clear the pushrods and lifter cover plate
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
Probably nothing too special and you could likely loosen the line nuts and then unscrew the brass fitting in the block. The block will likely be threaded to a national pipe thread (check with a simple pipe fitting to see what screws in, remembering that pipe threads are tapered and naturally get tighter as the fitting screws in). Then, with that in mind, a new brass fitting could be installed in the block, on both ends, that would accept a simple, off the shelf, brake line of the same size as the original tubing. Just make sure the new fittings dont have a smaller ID than the original fittings or they will cause a restriction in flow.
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Ok, at this point I have removed the transmission, the clutch plate, and the flywheel. All the other accessories have been removed (alternator, water pump, intake and exhaust manifolds, magneto, etc).
I have a typical engine hoist that a buddy gave me and I have the Harbor Freight leveler that has four short chains hanging from it. There are clearly great 3/8" threaded bolt holes from the manifolds to connect to on the drivers side, but on the passenger side, the only good bolts holes are near the front of the block for the unused side motor mount holes, no good bolt hole appears to exist on the rear passenger side. Any thoughts on where to attach will be appreciate. Attachment 2325203 |
Re: Eliminate draft tube options
attach high up on the engine with at least one end, if you can, so the engine will always want to hang right side up. if you attach lower down it may want to flip over so the attachment points are the highest up and the weight hangs below that. think of it like an old metal bucket full of water with a bale wire handle. would you want the bale wire handle attached to the bottom of the bucket or closer to the top of the bucket. attached low down will allow the bucket to roll and dump water.
my go to would be a quick home made plate to bolt up where the thermostat housing goes, as many bolt holes on the engine area as possible to spread the load between bolts, and with a longer tang that sticks up above the surface so a chain can be attached there in the centerline of the engine. a quick cardboard pattern with an extra hole top centre to attach a clevis for the chain. make a plate from flat bar or whatever as then you don't need to cut anything with a torch to a specific pattern, just drill holes. it doesn't need to look pretty but remember you will use it again for install. a square piece of 1/4" plate would be great and could likely be sourced from a local welding or fab shop. with the front attached at the top of the engine things will want to stay right side up. at the rear I would use another home made bracket made from flat bar with holes drilled to mount to the starter bolts and flat washers or short lengths of pipe to allow the nuts to tighten up and keep the bracket tight on the block. made with a long tab at the top and another hole drilled to attach the chain clevis. the other end of the rearward chain would attach to a couple of manifold bolts. here i would attach a separate short length of chain bolted on tight to the head with some manifold bolts but loose enough to allow the chain to turn a little. a big flat washer between the chain and the head surface to stop any marring of the surface on the head. span the load between a couple of bolts with the short length of chain and then attach the longer rearward chain, that connects to the starter side, to that short chain like you would attach it to a bracket that is attached there. then adjust the rear chain and the front chain so they attach to the spreader/lifter bar you have. no brackets required just a couple of clevises, so if the L brackets come off thats probably better. locate/attach the spreader/lifter between the front and rear of the engine remembering the rear is gonna be heavier due to the bell-housing. I have a slew of smaller clevises that I use for this stuff and they attach easily to the jackall beam that I use for the spreader/lifter bar. when done no chain should be allowed to slip through a clevis as that will allow change to happen in your set up. when the engine lifts off the mounts you will see if it is going to be rear or front heavy and then you can set it down and do the required adjustments at that time before you pick it up for real. of course, removing some head bolts and screwing in some replacement bolts with lift eyes attached would be the cats meow. doing this requires the head to be torqued up after the engine is installed back into the truck again though because loosening head bolts is going to affect the integrity of the gasket. just my 2 cents, there are lots of ways to get the job done, some sketchier than others. |
Re: Eliminate draft tube options
sorry, what I call a clevis is actually a screw-pin shackle
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/cl...s-for-lifting/ a home made bracket that would look something like this, with the appropriate holes drilled for mounting to the head and made to span the distance of the head width, is what i meant for the front thermostat housing bolt up area https://lmr.com/item/LRS-5058LH-K/mu...brackets-86-93 |
Re: Eliminate draft tube options
if you have nothing but time you could fab a plate to bolt up to the water pump and thermostat housing bolts and then you would have no worries about whether the holes are strong enough, lol.
use a gasket to a pattern to make the bracket from or use the thermostat housing itself for a pattern. mark it, drill the bracket holes slightly larger, bolt it on tight. done. same for the starter mount bracket. some will say just bolt the chain on there, good enough. if you bolt the chain across the 2 bolts usually only one bolt is doing the actual lifting. a bracket bolted on tight ensures both bolts are doing the work so the load is spread out. same theory for the chain that I would use across the manifold bolts. use a couple of bolts with the short chain between them, then the actual lifting chain connects to that in the middle of the chain so BOTH manifold bolts take the load. of course a home made bracket here would also be better but thats a little more time and effort. |
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The saga continues. The engine is now successfully out of the truck but try as I might, I could not get it to mate up to the engine stand. When I was able to get the four adjustable brackets loosely attached to the stand, I was not happy with the placement of the two lower bolts as they were uncomfortably close to the rear end cap and bearing. Rather than risk fate, I used my 1,000 pound hydraulic cart to partially support the engine while still attached to the engine hoist.
My question is, has anyone found or used an adapter plate to mate to an inline six engine to a fairly standard engine stand? Where can I find an adapter plate like that? Attachment 2325792 |
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Let’s see your fairly standard engine stand.
Just a pic. |
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Maybe you need the slotted arm style like this one.
Multi positions. https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/m...p.0090223.html |
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I can’t see why that won’t bolt on.
You got a pic of your bellhousing and back of the block? |
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I'll post pics of the bell housing and the block in a bit, I'm busy taking a rest....LOL
The issue is one of spacing of the four block holes to be used and the adjustably of the moveable arms on the stand. I can get the top two on easily, but given the horizontal and vertical distance, the arms for the lower bolts rest up against the rear end cap and crankshaft. To avoid them resting against the crank, I can only get one of the two lower arms attached. This was after two hours of fidgeting with it. |
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Got it!
You might need some longer bolts and spacers to get it to fit. |
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Apparently, I just needed to sleep on it and then tried some spacers to move the adjustable arms away from the crank and end cap.
Attachment 2325924 New question. What is this hole/port for? It's on the drivers side of the engine and I'm wondering if I could repurpose it for my oil pressure sensor instead of using a tee-fitting off one of the oil filter lines. Attachment 2325925 |
Re: Eliminate draft tube options
Could be coolant drain hole.
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Remove the plug and see what comes out.
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I have already drained the oil and coolant. The thread pitch is wrong for my oil pressure sensor. When originally I removed the bolt, it appeared greasy black, but wan't dripping from oil.
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