Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Im guessing there is a difference between closed cell foam and foil backed bituthene? I’ve seen the closed cell stuff at nearly .5” thick, whereas the foil backed butyl stuff seems to all be anywhere from .80 mil (.03”) to 1.57 mil. (.06”).... pardon if my math sucks. I don’t get their advertising, they say it’s 80 mil thick, but apparently that is the equivalent of 3.14 inches. What am I missing here? I understand some of these products are primarily designed for sound reduction and some are primarily heat and cold resistant. It’s my impression that the butyl foil backs stuff is for more for sound reduction, and the thicker closed cell stuff is for insulation...Is that fair to say?

Either way more is better I figure. I followed suit and have another 36 square feet of the “Siless” on the way. If someone can convince me why I need the closed cell stuff I’m all ears.

FedEx had dropped off my new electric fan this afternoon so I got busy and managed to get it fit into my original fan shroud.
Credit goes to board member 71Rat for this mod. It’s from an 03 Jeep Cherokee, and it looks like it could have been straight from the General in 1972. Well, if they even were using electric fans back then... It’s a perfect fit!

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Right on man! Keep the progress pics coming.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

So, the butyl stuff dampens the metal, vibration. The butyl won't burn either so it can take the heat but doesn't really stop it from passing through. That's where the shiny stuff comes in. It's foil backing can do a bit of heat isolation/reflection.

Closed cell foam does 3 things we care about. It absorbs sound. It insulates. It doesn't absorb moisture. Closed cell foam has been used in acoustic rooms for years like radio booths and recording studios. Many other uses too. But you get more sound and heat/cold insulation from the closed cell foam than you do the foil backed butyl.

This is why car manufacturers use only small patches of the butyl stuff(or similar) because they figured out it's main advantage is vibration dampening. You only need it strategically placed to do it's job correctly. Then they focus on insulation under the carpet. The insulation they choose has the same 3 property's that closed cell foam has. Jute padding usually. But some use CC foam too.

Price is our big factor too. While you do get benefit doing the whole floor (not just strategic small spots) with the butyl. Its nothing compared to what closed cell foam can do. But put the two together, and that's Bentley comfort baby ;)

Another way to put it:
Butyl stops the metal vibrations and oil canning.
CC foam absorbs the muffler drone, makes your stereo sound better that it really is, and keeps you comfortable in the winter and the summer doing it.

.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Oh, and the math. 3mil is a really good trash bag for the shop(reference).

1mil = .001 inch = household trash bag
3mil = .003 inch = lawn/shop trash bag
20mil = .02 inch = debit card?
80mil = .08 inch = foil backed butyl :D

80mil is between 1/16" and 1/8", closer to 1/16.

.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Is that a variable or 2 speed fan? Are you using the PWM function to run it or did you find a way around that for a high/low function?

From what research I've done, Gen V's are accompanied by fans that have three wires running to them - constant power, ground, and a control wire that comes from the PCM. Is that what you have?

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

There you go again, revealing my ignorance.:lol:

On Gringoloco’s thread, he mentioned the one he went with was a Spectra brand, and it had 2 speeds. I went to hunting the web for that one, and as usual I started price comparison shopping along with seeing who could get it to me the fastest. In the midst of all that I don’t even know which one I bought. If my head wasn’t attached I’d probably walk off and leave it. :uhmk:

I do know the fan has only 2 wires. I tested it with a motorcycle battery and it spun up to speed in a hurry, at the same time the bare ground wire nearly burned through my finger. (Note to self, next time don’t use bailing wire.):lol:

When I get back to the house I’ll look at the harness to see how many wires are designated for the fan. If my memory is right I just remember 1 blue wire for the fan, so if that’s the case would that be a signal wire?

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Thanks man. I think I’ll get some of the closed cell stuff on order also, because I’m all about Bently comfort. ;)

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I'm here to learn, and I don't know if the LT fans are 2-speed or variable. I was hoping you could tell me since you're on the cutting edge of C10 swaps here! I bet they're 2-speed though. I was looking at 2016 Camaro SS fans because that's what Mitch is using and it's also a single fan. He has constant power, ground, and a third wire that goes straight to the fan which is the control wire. No relays. Clean setup.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

...

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Driveshaft is in. Hats off to the guys at Automotive Driveline Supply in Hurst, Texas... I gave them the measurements and 3 days later it’s done, in spite of a pandemic. Fits like a glove, but I do see lots of cutting and welding in my future.

My air ride bags are installed but not plumbed up and holding pressure. I have some 2x4’s lodged in between the frame and trailing arms in order to raise the truck and have enough room to work under it. Well, the truck is sitting above ride height and I only have like a 1/4 inch clearance between the back of the cab and driveshaft and about the same between the driveshaft and the crossmember. If I were to let the truck down, there would be almost instant contact.

My plan is to continue to do as much pre assembly to the truck with the cab and bed still on the frame, then address this problem. When I do pull the cab off next time, I’m hoping to give everything the final once over. Repaint anything that got missed or scratched, correct the driveshaft issue and check all bolts for proper torque. If I’m lucky I’ll even get the cab painted.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Looking good man! Shew that's close. Normally you would be fine but since your bagged, yeah, gonna need some more clearance. What are you thinking your gonna do to resolve?

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

The only thing I can think of is to pull out the 2x4's currently holding the weight and let it drop to the bump stops (gotta make those too), then cut away what ever is in the space the driveshaft needs to occupy with my trusty plasma cutter. After the driveshaft has about 1/2" clearance at full drop, start the restructuring of the crossmember and the cab sheet metal, if I have to open it up and build a tunnel.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Yesterday I installed another 18 square feet of sound deadener, this time it was the “Siless” brand. I used a heater designed for keeping baby chicks warm to pre heat the stuff while I used a heat gun on the metal surface it was to be applied to. It really bonded quite well to the metal, Im thinking it will have a great result with keeping noises out, and keeping Willie Nelson noises in. I still have another 18 feet to install in the doors... I’m hoping to get that solid THUD! when I close the door.

I moved on to the Vintage Air install... something I really am not looking forward to. I’m just not as flexible as I used to be and I’ll often hurt for days after crawling around on my back working up underneath a dashboard. I took the passenger door off the truck and that helped in fitting the evaporator under the dash. It was still a real PIA to get it in there and I’m sure I’ll have to do it a few more times but o well... just another price we will pay to drive one of the most desirable classic trucks in the world I guess. I want to have zero bolts on the firewall that I smoothed out , and the kit calls for 3 bolts to run through it. I’m like to weld some studs on the inside to mount the evaporator, unless someone has a better idea. I do have a question for those of you who have already done this... which hole in the floorboard did you run the drain water out of? The hose provided in the kit will reach 2 different holes in the passenger floor toe board. I like the one farthest off to the left hand side, but I think it will be draining the water onto the back of the wheel well housing if I stick with that location. The other available hole is more in the middle of the toe board, but seems like it will be more easily kicked by passengers there.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I also got the dashboard cut and fitted the vent for the heat and air... I used the template they provide and laid down some painters tape before I marked the location to cut. I drilled out the corners first, then since it cut so quickly, I decided to just keep on drilling all the way around. I then used my oscillating tool to connect the dots. Finished up fitment with a file and glad to see the gap between the dash and the vent livable. Others have had large gaps and needed to add filler to close up the distance. Plus I think the dash pad will hide whatever gap is there anyways.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I know what you mean hurting for a couple days. My neighbor and I just pulled 2 twelve hour shifts building a fence this weekend. I won't be worth much this week. And for the drain I went with the center location. That drain line isn't ideal but in the center the passenger feet will typically straddle it for the most part. I have that drop the instructions called for too. I drilled a hole in floorboard so I could squeeze the 90 degree fitting attached to hose and it be super snug. No sealer.

.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Thanks. That's where most of the guys place it based on the photos I see out there. I'll move mine to the center also and just plug the hole I jabbed it in... I guess the carpet lays over the port?

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Yeah I just cut a slit in my carpet and it went around the hose no problem.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I want to figure out a way to keep my firewall smooth. The VA evaporator needs to be bolted to the inside of the firewall. If I weld a couple studs to hang the thing I doubt I'll have enough room to reinstall it. Has anyone found a better solution besides this idea?

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I put my drain hole more to where you have Option 2, but I put mine as high up but still under that cab support. The hose will run down inside that to below the inner fender. I would post a pic, but I don't have the truck.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I'll see if I can get you a picture of mine. I ran it out the side of the cab, I thought it worked out pretty slick.

Ok here are some pictures of mine. I drilled a hole out under the cowl vent. I used the stock Vintage air drain hose to get it out that far, then I bought a 90 degree fitting and ran some clear hose down out between the cab and the fender. I used a grommet and got a nice press fit so everything is sealed good, I also used clamps on everything so it wont fall apart with time or leak. I haven't used it yet but everything has fall so it should work fine.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I welded the studs in on my firewall on the inside. I have plenty of room to bolt them up. It is fun getting the hoses connected on the inside though.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Thanks for the pictures Sprint, I believe I like your design the best!

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I started messing with my doors. I noticed on the inside, I have surface rust that I’d like to get rid of before I try to paint this truck. My first inclination is to use my new small blaster, assuming I can fit it in the access holes and reach the problem areas. Any other ideas?

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Those spots are hard to get to. If you try to blast them, the sand/air is going to blow back at you and it'll be an unpleasant task. I pulled the skins off my truck, had the shell blasted, then epoxied them but if you don't need to replace the skins then I would try getting in there with a red scotchbrite and/or a wire brush to take off the loose rust and then use a rattle can rust encapsulator like Eastwood.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Yeah, not a fun job for sure. I’ll look into the differences between the red scotchbrite and the green, I’m guessing the red is more coarse? I’ve heard so many mixed reviews about rust encapsulators, but I think the majority of problems are from painting over it. The only thing I will do is add sound deadener inside the doors. Thanks man.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I scuffed as much off with 80 grit as I could and then sealed the inside up with POR15. My body shop recommended that. I will put dyno mat over the POR at some point. My drivers door is a newbie so I just left it as is.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Green is about 600 grit whereas red is about 320. I use mostly red, it's a good all-around pad. But yes, topcoating over rust encapsulators is a bad idea. When the encapsulator is the only coating, it's okay. We used it on my dad's doors for the same purpose as what you're looking for and it worked fine.

POR15 and Chassis Saver products work fine too, they are designed to go over rust.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Nice work so far definitely a lot of good info on here you are killing it with this build.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Thanks!... but I'd say "killing it" is a bit of a stretch! :lol:

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Is there an advantage in using a red scotchbrite pad over 320 grit sandpaper since they are basically the same grit?

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I like to use scrotchbrite when hard to reach areas are involved because the fibers reach much better than sandpaper. I also use it over EDP when I'm getting ready to spray epoxy over it. It's also my experience that 320 loads up pretty quick and wears out fast. I can't remember the last time I used 320, it's in an area of the grit spectrum that I don't use. The highest I go with dry sandpaper is 220 when I'm blocking. Then I jump to 600 wet for final sanding before sealer or base. When I say "jump", I mean I don't use any grits between 220 and 600, not that I go straight from 220 to 600 when sanding. I've never been good at getting all of the sand scratches out when going through the blocking steps and ending with 600, I always miss scratches. So once I'm done blocking with 220, I spray another coat or two so that I have a fresh coating to final sand with 600 so I know I won't have scratches coming through. Probably more info than you wanted.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Not a chance of that happening! Between you and Randy500 I may learn how to do something I've always wanted to do. Many thanks for any and all tips or comments.:chevy:

I'm now on the hunt for red scotchbrite.:ito:

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

If you ever want more info on bodywork, let me know. I'm by no means an expert, but I've learned a lot of what not to do. It's not scary, it just takes time to learn and a little money to get some good tools and equipment.

You should be able to get scotchbrite at your local auto paint shop or AutoZone, Napa, etc. If you're not in a hurry, Amazon.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I bought my paint today.:metal: I’ve hemmed and hawed between base coat clear coat and single stage and even between colors for, well... years. I chose single stage primarily because I think the finish is more indicative to a classic. I really like the satins and the flats but I thought it would be best to try and do a stock looking paint job. Plus, if I screw something up I can just do the faux-tina look and I’d probably be happy with that as well.

Here’s what I got:
Nason brand single stage “Full-Thane 2k”
6 quarts of 510 “medium blue” (1.5 gallons)
2 quarts of 521 “linen white” (.5 gallons)
Reducer and slow activator
2 extra gallon cans with lids
Mixing cups
Paint stirring sticks and strainers
I also picked up an aerosol can of rust encapsulator for the inside of my doors to keep the surface rust at bay.

The total with sales tax and some state fees was 603. Seems like a good deal to me.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I may be a little late here, and I am a bit old school in my approach, but I like to use a pressure sandblaster. It is messy and should be done outside if possible.
The drawbacks,( other than the mess) is , they require a lot of air volume. I have a 6.5hp dual stage compressor with an 80 gallon tank and 60 gallon auxiliary tank.
That said ,they do a great job of cleaning up rusty parts. If you ever consider one for the future, the blast media you choose makes a difference. I tend to use silica sand or diamond grit( please use a respirator when blasting), choose one that has a choke valve in the air line, this will help to clear a clogged hose when the sand / air has too much moisture. Also get a few different sizes of nozzles, sometimes the smaller grit isn’t screened well and can clog the blast nozzle.
I have had several over the years, I had a nice one, but a friend borrowed it and never returned it. He took off with it and my ex wife, 30 years ago, good riddance ....my latest one is a cheapie that I had to modify,adding better pipe and the choke valve . I have pics, but don’t want to overstep.
Sorry for the rambling, it’s Friday and I’ve had a couple

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I saw this home made blaster in the paint and bodywork FAQ threads... it sure looks like it'd do the trick. I picked up one of those small gravity feed blasters a couple weeks ago and it worked really good, so I will probably use it inside my door shells and spray the rust encapsulator into the corners or anywhere the blaster can't reach.

Your makin' me want to go to the fridge and grab a cold Billy Jenkins Bock. my latest favorite frothy beverage.;):metal:

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

$600 isn't bad at all and Nason seems to be good stuff.

Are you doing the two-tone like the bed?

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

That’s the plan, yes.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Any updates? It looks like you have all your paint, have you been bodyworking?

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Have you figured out your fan wiring yet? I've been doing research on Gen V's in hopes of doing one on the next project. From what I've read, the ECM is not capable of turning on fans with a high/low function like the previous generations. It controls the speed of the fans in a variable speed fashion. That or you can install a temp sender and a standalone fan controller, but I like how clean the factory setup is and letting the ECM control the fans.