Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I also fit the chrome front grille surround and a new ignition switch with bezel. I loaded up the doors with all their components and had some trouble getting both of the upper rollers into the track on the door glass. I'll get my son to be a second set of hands and eyes to help me get it right next time.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Looking good!
If you're up for moving the engine around, the Speedway stands look like a good option. I have the Holley version and they really sit the engine down nice and low.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Totally agree with this!^^^^^^

It should solve your problems with the driveshaft rubbing and your pinion angle.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

One step forward, two steps back. When I started this project the aftermarket had not yet produced motor mounts for my application, so I bought a universal set of "hot rod" mounts and took my best guess where to position the engine. At that time I still had the factory oil pan as well, which kept me from going as low as I wanted to. Now that the Holley 302 oil pan is on it there is much more clearance between the pan and crossmember. Like the 2 most recent comments suggest, I think the pinion angles and driveshaft clearance issues will be resolved if I install properly designed mounts. Yesterday I ordered the parts, and today I took the front end and cab back off. I also dragged it back up to the house and gave it a much needed power washing. The last time I pulled the cab I used a beam that made contact with the inner roof panel. I put some padding between the metal and the beam but it still made some scuff marks, so this time I redesigned the beam to carry the weight on the top of the door jambs. I cut a notch in a 6x6 that allowed the pinch welded flanges room so they wouldn't get bent in the process. This method worked better than the first as the cab was much more solid while up in the air. See pics.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I also made a panel to mount the computer, fuse box, and +/- terminals. This idea was directly stolen without permission from TA_C10.:lol:

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Ok. So the new Holley motor mounts are in and it sits about an inch and a half lower in the frame.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I'm using the CPP center crossmember for lowered trucks, along with 2" lowering blocks under the axle. In this pic the rear suspension is about 1/2 way through the amount of available travel, and as the truck drops more the driveshaft will contact the hoop in the crossmember. Has anyone else experienced this? To correct this my first thought is to cut the top of the hoop off and weld it back in with as much clearance as the cab will allow, but not sure that's the way I wanna go just yet.

Another factor in this pinion angle debacle is the transmission mount. If I were to lower it in the frame it would help with the clearance issues in the center crossmember hoop, but it will also increase the downward angle of the motor / trans combo. The 6L80E trans has an oil pan that hangs low, so I really don't want to do that.

My rear diff is currently pointed up at 6 degrees and the transmission is down at 4 degrees. Since I need to tilt the rear diff down at least 2 degrees, I considered cutting the needed angle into the 2" rear lowering blocks. Basically, instead of adding the typical shims to get the correct pinion angle, get the same result by removing material from the blocks.

What do ya think SCOTI?

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I had the entire beautiful day to work on the truck. Now that the motor is in the correct spot I yanked the 2" lowering blocks out and made a mark at 2 degrees using the digital level on my iPhone. With a 40 grit flap disc on the trusty DeWalt grinder, it made short work removing the aluminum no longer needed. Once most of the material was taken off I stuck some 80 grit sandpaper to a nice flat steel surface and sanded them by hand to their final dimensions. After they were reinstalled both important angles were at 4 degrees. Parallelism finally achieved. Pointing the rear diff down another 2 degrees gave the driveshaft another 3/8" clearance in the hoop, but still would make contact if the truck was aired out. At this point I thought I might as well alter the crossmember to get full travel. I got the top of the hoop cut off and cleaned up just as it was getting dark and dinner was on the table. Tomorrow afternoon I'll be ready to weld in 1.25" tall 1/4" bar stock to raise the hoop and eliminate the possibility of metal on metal contact. Feels like I've finally got some resolution to a lingering problem. We shall see... I still have axle bump stops I need to install.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Looks like a good solution to your problem. Though I am definitely no expert when it comes to driveline components. Keep it up!:metal:

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Great build, great thread.

Finally finished reading through all of it and the one question I have (even with all the other great work) is:

Post #5, last picture. What was your process for getting that frame so nice and ready for paint?

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Thanks a lot CKfan. I used a twisted wire disc on a large grinder for the open areas and a wire wheel on a drill gun in the tighter spaces. I also found a dental style pick handy for getting greasy road crud built up in the really tight places.

Brian

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Another beautiful day in Texas. Man I love it when the time changes back in the spring. I finished up the mods to the driveshaft hoop. Next will be to install the rubber bump stops in the rear frame notches.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Sorry for the delay in responding but I was away for a family emergency.

The discussion about the operating angles needed is accurate but there is a major caveat when dealing w/aggressively lowered vehicles that we need to keep in mind.

From what I 'learned' during the quest for knowledge in this subject area is the 'correct' set-up that is industry standardized has the engine/trans pointing downward slightly (toward the ground) & the rear-end pointing up slightly (toward the sky). In this configuration on normal vehicles, the driveshaft/s would be higher in the front (@ the trans output end/s) & lower in the rear.

When your vehicle fits these criteria, the industry standard for the math calculations used when determining the driveline angles works.

But, on aggressively lowered vehicles (where the rear end is at or above the original frame rail placement), w/the engine/trans output pointing down slightly & the rear pinion pointing up, the math is backwards when doing the calcs because the calcs are assuming the rear-end pinion is lower vs the trans output.

Typical math might be:

Engine/trans within the frame rails & pointing down @ 3°
Pinion below the frame rails & pointing up @ 2°
Rear end housing C/L is 8" below trans output height.

With this scenario, you would look @ it a 3°-2° = 1° difference. This is what you want. The angles need to be as close to zero as possible to minimize vibrations w/o actually being zero for good needle bearing life.

Now take those previously listed numbers but do the math on a vehicle where the rear end housing C/L is within the original rail height vs stock ride height which places it way under the rails. That 2° upward angle @ the pinion is no longer subtracted from the engine/trans output angle because it is @ the same C/L or higher. Once that becomes a factor, the angles are added together:

Engine/trans within the frame rails & pointing down @ 3°
Pinion within the frame rails & pointing up @ 2°
Rear end housing C/L is level w/the trans output height.

With this scenario, you would look @ it a 3°+2° = 5° difference. In the extreme drops, the pinion will be close to level or above the trans output heights, so the driveshaft can actually run upward (toward the sky) to the pinion. In these scenarios, one might need to raise the trans output or bring the pinion down to get that target 1° or less angle difference.

All dimensions/angles need to be pulled w/the vehicle @ it's loaded/suspension weighted ride height.
Unfinished vehicles? You can guess @ the set-up to get things in the ballpark but will need to finalize everything w/the vehicle assembled.
*EDIT* Pinion angle 'change' that occurs during extension/compression varies depending on suspension type.

@cornerstone,

I sectioned & raised the hoop on my ECE T/A x-member 2" higher. With my 3" raised rails & frame notch, plus the trans output @ 3° & rear end level @ the pinion, I had .125" clearance on a 3.5" (?) OD shaft w/the suspension fully compressed. It was just a rolling chassis @ that point but I should be able to dial the pinion in easily one the chassis is fully loaded.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

No need to apologize sir, I hope your family is well.

First off, thank you very much for the thorough explanation. I learned something new and a few things have been clarified /confirmed for me.

Since the post where I asked for your thoughts, I cut out a "shim" from the 2" lowering blocks. Initially I thought it yielded a -4* trans and a +4* pinion, effectively cancelling out all angles... but today with better lighting I saw there is almost a 1* difference in the 2, so hopefully no vibrations.

I tossed the cab back on to see if the interference issues had been resolved and realized I will still need to clearance the pinch weld of the back of the cab. Just a little more minor surgery and that part of the build should be done.

The first picture shows the 3/8" clearance between the cab floor and the top of the recently enlarged driveshaft hoop. I'm happy with how that mod came out.

The second and third and fourth pics are of the suspension fully aired out, just because I thought they looked pretty sweet.

The last pic shows how I welded a bracket to hold the fuse box for the stand alone engine harness above the computer.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Glad to see this project moving forward.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Awesome work so far, way to keep at it!

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Lifted the cab back off to trim the cab for driveshaft clearance at lowest setting. I'll clean it up and cap off the support structure next time I can work on it.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

72' is 72 feet
'72 is 1972 today
Being ignorant is not good. Seriously, really.
Being a moron is bad.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Too much time on your hands isn't good.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

...

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I think someone needs a refresher on forum rules and guidelines.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

X2, what the heck is his problem? :uhmk::uhmk:

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Nice mod nice work

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

The new mounts positioned the drivetrain in the right place, but didn't let the drivers side header fit. I suppose they were designed to be used with Hooker headers but I already had a decent set of stainless long tubes. I think it took nearly a dozen times of taking them off, grind a little, reinstall to check fitment, repeat.

While the cab was back off for the umpteenth time I cleaned up the notch I added to the lower back of the cab for driveshaft clearance by welding in a 1/4" plate to the substructure of the floor. A little filler and that will be ready to go.

The fuel line, brake lines, battery cables and air lines are all now secured and clamped tight.

Next I'm planning on putting the cab back on, adding the door seals and verifying proper fitment and gaps in all of the front sheet metal, then getting started on the body work. The truck has some minor hail damage, and a few bumps and bruises that need addressing.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Re installed the cab, then slapped on the Precision brand door rubber before mounting the doors, and the rest of the front sheet metal. Sanded the original faded ochre paint off the hood both top and the underside. I wasn't sure what to do about the dried out foam rubber pads under the hood bracing, so, before ripping it all out, I verified that new repops are available. If you've ever wondered about the effectiveness of the small hand held sand blasters, they work very well on smaller tight areas that are difficult to get to. In one of the pictures below you will see the results on the formerly rusted hood latch bolt. I didn't see any downsides to using it other than a mess to vacuum up. Right about the time I was ready to spray the epoxy primer, my son came home from work where he recently was working in the paint department at his work so I asked if he wanted to give it a go, and he took me up on it.:metal: It was a super beautiful spring day in north Texas as the Bluebonnets down by the barn are standing tall.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Great update! It's always nice to see an update on your build, getting family involved, and spring! Looks like your son is in the zone and doing an excellent job.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

As the bonnets bloom so goes your protect ….inspiring

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

What kind of sprayer is your son using? Just went through the whole build, awesome work.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Thank you! It's just a $29 Harbor freight HVLP spray gun. I'm debating on which gun to get for the final paint work but for epoxy primer and high build urethane primer it works fine.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I got a few coats of Summit brand high build urethane primer on both sides of the hood and the new chrome bumper on just for kicks and a photo op on Easter afternoon. Never mind the shop chicken, she's a ham.

The shot from the side shows the truck with the bags empty sitting on the bump stops. This is the lowest this trucks front end can drop without the tires rubbing the inner fender wells.

I need to clean up and apply a quality coating of some sort to the underside of the inner fenders. I see several fellas using raptor liner so I'll be looking into that.

Over the next few weeks I want to get the truck fully wired, and the motor up and running. My brother in law is willing to come over and help me with the wiring. I fall squarely into the "I hate wiring" camp. I find myself just staring at the diagram, then staring at the harness, then staring at the other harness, then having a headache. I've had the engine running in the past, but it was brief. It didn't run long enough to get up to temperature. This time I'll have a nearly complete exhaust system.

I can also start on hail damage and dent repair that still needs to be done.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I've been working on a few different areas on the truck. The shortened bedsides need a bit of filler to cover the weld lines. All other accessible dents I was able to hammer and dolly to a near smooth finish but they will still need a skim coat of filler to look good under the paint.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

For the longest time I've wanted a beautiful wood bed floor. Knowing myself and the way I treat my daily drivers, I changed my mind and decided to stay with a steel floor, since it'd be very difficult to watch myself tear up a shiny glossy walnut floor. I don't really want a "show truck", I want to drive it like I stole it.

The original bed floor was heavily pitted with a couple pin holes from rust. A new floor is now up to $1200. which I would love to have but can't swing that anytime soon. The blue and white short box I bought a few years ago cost me $900. if my memory serves me. The floor in it is good enough shape so I decided to use that floor. I figure I can sell the bed sides, wheel tubs, front panel and janky tailgate to re coup some of the money. Whoever built the blue and white box didn't believe in using bolts for whatever reason, they welded the front panel to the bed sides making my disassembly job lots of fun. After a days worth of drilling and chiseling I freed the floor from the box.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

With my hood in high build primer, I used some guide coat and block sanded to reveal where the hail damage was. Pretty clear where the filler needs to go now!

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Good progress going on here 👍

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

I got the wheel tubs and tailgate sanded down and in epoxy, then reassembled the bed with new hardware. Today I set the bed back on the frame in order to have a platform to stand on while I fill and block sand the roof. Since it's been such a long time since I initially sprayed the black epoxy primer, I had to lightly sand it before I spray the high build 2k primer. If the will rain hold off I hope to get the entire truck in high build 2K primer tomorrow, I'm looking forward to having a single color on the truck. Once it has a couple heavy coats of high build I will get serious about getting all the panels as straight as I can via skim coats of filler and block sanding.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Very nice build coming along here.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Nice! It's always a motivating moment for me to get the truck on the ground and most of the panels on for a preview of what the final product will look like. I love the way yours is turning out. Keep the updates coming!

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Thank you Mike. I'm hoping to have a truck almost as nice as yours eventually.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

Over the weekend I picked up a 99$ Harbor Freight stud welder to pull out a few small dents in the fender and tailgate. Overall it worked great. Not too far into it I realized you can only yank on them so many times with the slide hammer before they will rip clean off... leaving a perfect 1/8" hole. No biggie, just added a little more time to the job welding them back up.

Then today I spent the day doing body work. I took it apart again to be able to have the parts at a good working position. Sanding is way less of a burden when you don't have to bend over or be in a strained position. I put the bed on a set of sawhorses, the doors and tailgate on folding stands which made the job not too bad. I covered the bedsides with a guide coat then used a large paint stirrer wrapped in 120 grit to sand and reveal the low spots. I was able to get the panels very close to straight and intend to move to high build primer next. I do need to spray more epoxy primer over the bare metal areas before the high build though.

I also added another tube of 3M 08307 Self Leveling Seam Sealer to the drip rails. The first time I did the job I accidentally wasted too much and didn't get them full enough for my liking. This time I did the opposite and actually have too much on the passenger front side of the roof. I had the back of the truck raised up so the seam sealer wouldn't all run down the backside of the window drip rails, but forgot to check for level side to side. I'm hoping to be able to sand it down some when it's fully cured.

Re: Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10
 

The trick with those little holes is to just weld another pin over the hole. Then just cut off the stem with side cutters and grind smooth. At least that's what I was taught back in my body shop days.