Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

If you were going to build a true pro-touring 65' chevy step side, one that was built to really perform on a road course, YET was able to be driven cross country like the power tour...how would you build it? Suspension, drivetrain, motor, brakes, cooling...how would you do it?

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

I would:

3-link the rear suspension
Buy C5 or C6 front control arms, spindles, front spring
Find a LS1/2/3 with a 98-02 6 speed from a Camaro

That would be a pretty good start.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

3 link rear,
Boxed frame,
Mustang II front end,
LS3 W/440hp with a charger/turbo 500+hp (about $8500) and full wire/computer set up from jegs or summit (LS7 500hp/24mpg if had $12grand) OOH yes 6 speed as well.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

17 or 18 inch wheels, Baer brakes, Big Nasty sway bars front and rear, Watts link out back instaed of panhard, Trailing arm rear with urethane upgrades. Coilovers on all 4 corners. Lowered of course. Normaly Aspirated nasty Ls motor with a built 4l80. Rack and pinion Steering. Recaro seats. Kickin Stereo. Relocate battery and tank to rear. I'm sure I could come up with more! This would make an awesome ride.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

im in the middle of installing my watts link at the moment with some boxed trailing arms, will look sick with the polished aluminum when all done. will tell everyone to get down on all 4 to look at the rear end when done haha.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

cool post pics

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

I would be more traditional and keep the truck arms but go 2x4 frame tubular uppers and trailing arms\watts link and bags all around 18" magnesium wheels big sway bars,brakes,oh yea if moneys no object get my 454 motown (aluminum)and get the best fuel injection kit I can find and then turbo it.....6 speed all the way. If I couldn't fund that motor I would build a 377 with the lightest rotating assembly I can find add some compression,injection and run N\A with a monster roller cam.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

I got the motor situation covered, but I am rather new to road race suspension...so give me some pro/cons for the rear suspension (watts link / 3 link vs upgraded stock suspension) and front suspension C5 vs mustang II vs upgraded stock...

I am doing coilovers on my 07' TBSS, already has sway bars, Belltech springs, DJM upper A arms, but the ride quality needs help, hence the coilovers.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

+1 I'd o almost identical except for the auto. I'd most definitely go 6 speed for being able to control precisely when you shift comin into corners and such. And being able to heel toe so you wouldn't break the back tires loose down shifting on the brakes.

Watts link rather than the panhard is because the panhard follows an arc since it attaches at one side, so therefore it pushes and pulls the axle to the side during its range of motion. Whereas a watts link doesn't. Honestly I don't know enough about 3 link vs 4 link to give it proper justice explaining, so I'll defer to someone who knows all the details so I don't misinform. For front suspension, I think its more whatever you feel more comfortable with. I think on this board there are a lot more people running c5 so it would be easier since there is the help, but with mustang 2 its been used forever. Upgraded stock would kinda be ugly, cuz the steering isn't as sharp, and a lot more turn to turn. In the bmw world, 2.5-3 turn to turn which is from being locked in one direction to being locked in the other direction is optimal, so I personally would follow that idea, which with stock it has more slop than a rack and pinion, and also you wouldn't be able to get the turn to turn down from stock, because corner carving will be a really lot of work with a lot of turn to turn cuz you'll have to move your arms so much to get it pointed the right direction.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

A 3-link avoids all bind through bumps. A properly set up 4-link can too, but it's not that easy to do. The factory truck arm suspension, all though not bad, isn't adjustable and can cuase binding issues too.

Here is what a 3-link looks like. This is my 73 road race car I am building. http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644613

I went with a PH bar due to packaging. Will there be rearend shift through a bump? A little. How much is based on how long the PH bar is.

There are also pics of the front suspension. Had I to do over again, I most likely would have went with C5 or C6 parts. Why? Easily replaceable, light and proven. Mustang 2 stuff is not a bad option, but I think you could get more tire under it with C5 or C6 parts. Either one though has a large aftermarket for brakes ect.. The nice thing about the C5/6 stuff is packaging for your springs. They use a leaf in the front and it sits low and out of the way.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

I was looking at the 3 link setup but i didnt like how it mounted to the cover and ran across this.http://www.truckshop.com/files/pics/pics/link1.jpg

Any one used or seen one like this?

Justin

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Thats not a 3-link.. Thats a version of a Watts link.

This is a 3 link:

http://73-ls1.com/SUPER73/1-10-06/3link06.jpg

See how there are (2) lower control arms and (1) upper control arm. That's a 3-link. A 4-link would have 2 uppers and 2 lowers.

A Watts link or Pan Hard Bar keeps the rear end centered under the the car from left to right where the 4-link, 3-link, ladder bar, torque arm ect keeps the rear from moving forward or backwards.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Ya thats my mistake sorry

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

That's a Watts Link kit from KP Components.-LINK


http://www.kplinks.com/images/P/WLB-C71_AT.jpg

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

I installed one of those watts links with a 6 link air bag setup on my buddies 03 silverado recently. Its very sweet.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Lots of good information guys...so for my 65' application, to run a 3 link, would I have to custom fab some stuff, or are their companies that make a conversion kit...What kits/systems out there would you all recommend that will require the least amount of custom fabrication, yet allow very good performance?

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Ya know, I've always wanted to build an old pickup with the engine / drivetrain in the bed. To me a short box 65 would prove to be a better candidate for such a project compared to the 67+

It looses it's function as a pickup, but most rods do. And it wouldn't be very weather safe unless it could fit under a tonneau cover. But it would be unique, you could build a nice flashy engine with some cool stacks type induction and really turn heads when you pull the front wheels off the ground with light throttle.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Lateral dynamics makes one for a F-bodies. I personally feel their upper link isn't super stout, but I'm sure it could be made to work in a truck with minimal adjustment. You could add to the upper front mounting point by running 2 trianglulated bars up the the fram.

http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/

http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/products/

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Could piece together something from summit. Tragically I think your in uncharted territory as far as most of the big companies are concerned and at least some fab will be needed to make it work.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

You think that this could be done with minimal intrusion into the bed area?

You mentioned the upper link not being that strong...
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...k_iso_view.jpg
Which part were you talking about, would this be a real problem if it wasn't tracked heavily, and could I modify it to be stronger?

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Looks to me like the top of the axle is the mount that isn't super strong. Yeah you could definitely modify it to make it stronger.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

I don't have first hand experiance with this set up. I didn't say it was weak, I said that I felt it "isn't super stout"

If you look at the front mounting point, it is made from what looks like 1x3 square tube and could shear. Now, in the car, they are welding it in to the floor pan which is adding a lot of "sheer" strength.

But still not quite the same as having it backed by some serious tubing.


http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/prod...s_iso_rear.jpg


http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...k_iso_view.jpg


http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/prod.../install03.jpg


http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/prod.../install07.jpg


http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/prod.../install15.jpg



http://73-ls1.com/SUPER73/1-10-06/3link06.jpg




If I were putting it in a truck, I would not use their front support unless it was severly reinforced.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Here are a few more. BTW, My rear upper mount does wrap the back of the rear housing.

http://73-ls1.com/SUPER73/1-10-06/3link07.jpg


http://73-ls1.com/SUPER73/1-10-06/3link01.jpg


http://73-ls1.com/SUPER73/1-10-06/3link03.jpg

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Would that not be real similar to a trailing arm setup with an improved third link to replace the panhard bar?

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Just build mine with a 65 body :) [I was planning on building a P/T 68 camaro.....then I decided on "redoing" my 72 GMC....then I bought a 68 SWB C-10....go figure :D ]

I call mine pro touring, but it may not be in all the since of the term. I guess it's pro touring in looks, but with some other comprimises since it will be multi-purpose (corner carving, maybe an autocross, drag racing, show, and cruiseing)

I put a 4L60E in mine. If I wasn't drag racing (bracket racing to be more specific) I'd have a 6 speed.

If I wasn't planning on showing it, I'd probably go with coil overs instead of the air bags.

I'd also probably run some 17" wheels instead of the bling bling 20s I have on there now.

The rear suspension setup isn't too bad. A lot of the pro-touring guys (camaros and nova along with some others) switch to a "truck arm" suspension. (http://www.hotrodstohell.net/catalog/catalog.htm) One improvement that could be made is have the panhard bar adjustable (as in move the mounting point on the frame up and down). That would be one more thing that could be done to help "tune" it to the track conditions.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

DJ,

I'd call what we have a trailing arm suspension. I guess you could call a 3-link that as well.



Ack... Moving your panhard bar up and down is not really a way to tune suspension. You should almost always have your PH bar as close to axel center as possible. It should also be as long as possible. Adjusting the mounting point of your suspension links is how you change instant center, antisquat, antidive. You should be using spring rates and antiroll bars to compensate for antiroll.




Pharmd,

Do yourself a favor, go pick up Suspension Engineering by Herb Adams. He goes in to the different basic suspension setups, how they work, also goes through spring rates ect..

Another great thing in my collection is Dave Morgans DVD about building Drag car chasis. Given it's not geared for turning corners, but there are still some basics that he covers that really compound what Herb Adams Talks about. He also goes in to some things Herb doesn't that I feel are very inportant for suspension tuning. Such as shock/spring placement and the affects of leverage ratio.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

not sure what the wheelbase is on your truck or this, but i see alot of people grafting there bodys to the corvettes and ssr's on some forums to different vehicles.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/03-SS...QQcmdZViewItem

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

That works. Dunno if its just me, but those suspensions are designed for those vehicles. Building up something for a c10 I'd wanna atleast design it around the c10's weight and height of the body and not alter something to fit a c10 application as drastically as changing a frame and all of the stuff that goes along w/ grafting a c10's body onto one.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Has anyone at all, done a similar set up that I might be able to check out, or reference. Who or what shop(s) would you guys recommend talking to to maybe get a little assistance on a project like this. Remember, I am a pharmacy owner, and I am kinda co-in-charge of 5 stores, so time is in short supply around here.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Pharmd,

You might also want to try PM'ing "Legend56BC" Here is a quick post from him. Looks like he is in to road racing trucks..

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=201792

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

DJ: the company i got my watts link from is Totally polished. almost the same as the one i got but mine has thick polished aluminum cross brace and better looking center brace. Do not remember who i got the boxed trailing arms from but they are a ton better and lighter then stock. Will get pics once done welding it up.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

I kind of have the same project int he "planning" (dreaming??) stages. My current plans are to use a Dropmember C4 version (or the C5 version when it comes out) made by Nate at Porterbuilt Streetrods. He is on this site often in the suspension section. Here is a link to the C4 thread..http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=212001

I also am planning to stick with the stock style trailing arm suspension, but modify it like a NASCAR chassis. They use it on the road couse..

My planned ride height will be about 5-6" off the ground to the bottom of the frame. I might use airbags, take note of the cars that ART brings to the Goodguys shows and really performs at the autocross event.

just my thoughts.:smoke:

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

I actually talked to ART during the fall Grand Rod Run in Pigeon Forge. The did very well in the small autoX event they had there this year as well. I am not ruling that out as an option...it is important for it to LOOK AND PERFORM well, and the ART can certainly do a fair job at both from the looks of things.

On a side note I thought I'd throw up some pics of what is going in my TBSS this weekend...
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...d/102_5464.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...d/102_5455.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...d/102_5456.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...d/102_5459.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...d/102_5460.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...d/102_5454.jpg

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

oOo, that looks like that could be fun.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

What are you running for a cam and exhaust?

Speeking of TBSS, I'm on the fence about buying my wife a new car in the next year and taking over her 07 TBSS since I use it to tow my truck or by myself a used CTS-V. If I took over the TBSS, I think a nice little 224/230 110/114 would be kind of fun.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Kooks 1 3/4 headers, catless Y pipe, electric cut out for exhaust, the cam is 22x/23x high lift. Its a custom grind from AI. They put a set of their heads on a GTO with a 332/336 cam, and full bolt-ons and it put down 487 through a stalled A4 (this was with stock in take I believe). So I am hoping to see some decent ET's. I am working on a nitrous set up as well...something along the lines of a 100 shot. I'd kinda like to be 12.0 @ 110 NA, then 11.6x @ 115 on spray...I guess we'll see what happens...with AWD leaving on spray, it would be a beast on the street from a dig.

I'm doing suspension work also though, so it will still be able to corner and brake...Coilovers should be here very soon...it already has upgraded sways, and its lowered...but I want a better ride AND handling.

You obviously have to do what you need to do...but I'd get the TBSS...its just too awesome seeing the look on peoples faces when they get spanked by an SUV. If you are able to hang onto it, I think in 20 years it will be worth some dough too. I'm really diggin these classic SUV's...like a late 60's early 70's blazer...the TBSS is the new equivalent IMHO.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Either way the TBSS is staying. I just don't know if I want to get her a convertible of some sort as thats what she originally wanted then drove the TBSS. She felt a vert would not be as practicle with out having something like the TBSS for the future. So with that, buy her a vert or me a CTS-V. If I got the V she would drive the TBSS, if I got her a vert, I'd drive the TBSS..

That 487rwhp seems a little high IMO going through an auto.. I'm not really calling BS, but it just seems a bit higher than what I have seen through other major LS shops with a LS2 with out dyno tricks. Any idea what the compression was? I'm assuming you meant 232/236 not 332/336.. Also, when you say full bolt on's did it have a EWP, Dual/single cut out or through the mufflers? Was that with a short belt? Got a link to it? I'd be curious to know all the details.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

I looked at a few used CTS-Vs earlier this year. Nice and all, but go take a look at a G8! If I were to get a new car, that's what it would be.

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

You gotta love rear drive v8!

Re: Pro-touring 65' C-10
 

Here is the link...It is legit, if you read on other guys dyno'd their cars at the same dyno and they made similar power to other dyno's they'd been on. There have been other GTO's make similar power with TFS heads...AI flat knows what they are doing I'll throw up a link to their site also...

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273188

http://www.advancedinduction.com/

MY HEADS...
http://http://www.advancedinduction....uctsGMLS2.html