Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
I have been playing around with both of these programs quite a bit now.
I would love to get full combos from people to see how accurate these programs are. I feel it's been pretty good for me so far. At the end of this post are all the things I think I will need to run both programs. Engine Analyzer is a pretty nice little program and I think it gives you a pretty good idea of what the motor is making. Has a ton of option for you to adjust, so garbage in will equal garbage out. Drag Analyzer is also a nice program. Using the info I got from Engine Analyzer, I put it in to the closest vehicle I could find in drag analyzer. Needless to say it was way off at first. I started adjusting settings like weight, weight bias, traction, converter, all to be in my range. It was much more accurate. I had to massage traction, frontal area and drag coef a bit to get it dialed, but it was more or less right on. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...n_Oldsetup.JPG I then changed the traction figure to 100% from 63% as I new I was not hooking up 100% at the track, video, data logger and my butt told me so. This is what it told me. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...lltraction.JPG Here is a graph overlay of the two. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Enginedrag/overlay.JPG When setting it up for the N20 pass, I said I turned it on at 1.6 in the run. Told me I should have went 11.28 @ 119.2. I know I short shifted and only ran an 11.282@115.3. With no data logger running that pass, I had to play around with shift points and where the 100 shot came in to get some what accurate on the N20 pull. There is a nice "Calcualte Performance" feature on this program and there is a "Auto Optimize" button. You can put in multiple items for it to adjust to give you a certain mph or ET, or it will adjust to find your quickest. So after a few tries, I let it figure out what I did. It said I turned the bottle on at 1.2 seconds in to the run and shifted 1-2 at 7,100 and 2-3 at 6600. From the sound on the video, I'd say that is fairly accurate. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Enginedrag/N20pull.JPG So what would it say if I had 100% traction and let it figure out where to turn the bottle on and shift at? http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng.../optimized.JPG What about the full kit. I phased it in, 100 hit at .0, 200 at .5 and 300 at 1.0... This seems a little optimistic. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Enginedrag/300hit.JPG At any rate, here is what I would need for your vehicles to run them.. Engine info Bore Stroke Factory tolerances or set up more as a race motor? Electric Water pump? Electric Fan? Head data: *----* Intake and Exhaust Valve size *----* Head flow numbers (Please provide them or a link to MFG's website, I don't want to have to search for info. If these are stock heads, try to give me a casting or something) Compression ratio Type of intake (Single plain, dual plane, again link if you can find it). Carb or TB (Is it a vacum carb?) Header Data: *----* Tube Diameter *----* Tube length to collector (this can be your best guess, but the more accurate, the better) Cam info: Link to MFG's web page or cam card would be best but.. Duration at .050" Total Lift and based on what rocker ratio Intake centerline LSA What rocker are you using? Blower/turbo? I need to know size and PSI you are running. Intercooler? Air to Air or Air to water? Vehicle Data (I am going to try to keep this simple and use my aero for the most part). Total weight Front/Rear weight bias What trans you are running (Gear ratio if different than stock) Size converter (STR if you have it) Gear ratio Differential (Open, production posi, spool) Tire size (height, width and type, again if you have a link to the MFG's page, even better). Are you running N20? If so, how many stages and how big are they? Please understand that while I enjoy doing this, I may not get to it right away. Also, please understand, garbage in, is going to be absolute garbage out. Shaun |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Bore 4.290
Stroke 4.00 2.25/1.88 Dart Iron Eagle 308 Light blue for Intake and red on Exhaust 10.25:1 Single Plane Wieand Team G Quick Fuel Technologies 850 Mechanical secondary Header Data: # 1-3/4" x 30 " Primary Tubes # 3" Collector Cam info: Crower Comp Cams # Pro Magnum Roller Rocker Arms 7/16'' rocker stud 1.7 ratio Just Engine info now. Truck will not be done for a few months. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Here you go..
http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...dog28_dyno.JPG I stuck that in my truck file and let the computer figure out the "best" converter and shift points: 3,900lbs with a 55/45 weight distribution 4.56's 30x14.50 tire TH400 gearing 1-2 = 6,500 rpm 2-3 = 6,200 rpm 4,000 converter http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...Ripdog_ET2.JPG |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
The specifics of the engine, 6.2 ls3 crate engine. 450hp 445ft/lbs with stock L92 heads, 10.2:1, stock fuel injection and ignition, 1-3/4 to 1-7/8 stepped headers about 26in of tube with 3" duals, total weight 3450, 60/40 bias, 4l60e with 4.10's, 275/50/r15 tires on rear with spool, ajustable qa-1 stocks front and rear, tubular front suspension, 4" drop leafs in rear with cal-tracs and 9". A stock converter matched to the ls3, this truck isnt together yet im hoping to have it driveable this summer. I know I didnt give you all the info you requested but thats all I know for now.
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Thank you Super73 Those power curves look sick and it motivated me a bit. Will really be getting some work done now.:metal:
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
GMC70C20,
I can not run an engine or drag profile with out the requested info. There is no way to put the data in. I can run a drag profile only if someone sends me a dyno of their engine for comparisons though. I would be very interested in that as well. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
1 Attachment(s)
I have a book that has been my BIBLE for about 10 years. It's called
Auto Math Handbook by John Lawler. It contains most every calculation, and formula you could ever need. I've found it to be almost dead on in real world applications. I know there are really good programs out there and the book even has a chapter about that. I just like to do it myself. Funny thing, the last chapter is how to calc. blood alchol content. FWIW |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
383ci
Bore 4.030” Stroke 3.75” 11.1 Compression Ratio Pontiac Motorsports 867 Heads 2.05/1.60 valves. 62cc. Flow Numbers @ 28” Intake --------- Exhaust .200 150 cfm -- .200 151cfm .300 203 cfm -- .300 192 cfm .400 218 cfm -- .400 207 cfm .500 252 cfm -- .500 217 cfm .550 257 cfm -- .550 218 cfm .600 257 cfm -- .600 222 cfm Cam…NX288HR http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...?csid=172&sb=2 236/248@0.50 .555”/.577”with 1.6 rockers. 113lsa, 108CL Intake… Weiand Team G Single Plane. Carb…Holley 800cfm DP Headers…Hooker Supercomp 1.75” 3” collector… 3” exhaust with X pipe. 200hp nitrous shot. 2500rpm chip in the rpm activation switch… Transmission…TH350 with 10” TCI Converter. Flashes to 5100rpm on the nitrous. 3.73 gear… auburn limited slip. 28x10.5/15…M/T ET Drag. Weight…3825lbs with driver. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
bore=101.6mm
stroke=92mm 9.2cr 750 proform mech secondaries heads have 2.165 int and 1.59exh 260cc int port/90cc exh port .200=148/126 .300=212/162 .400=264/189 .500=302/205 .600=322/214 .700=316/221 gm open plenum single plane intake cam XR281HR hydraulic roller dur @ 50 228/230 lift 571/573 lsa 112 icl 110 3800lbs with driver 3.73 gears posi 315/60-15 mickey thompson drag radial 29.9" tall,,,11.5" wide old covertor ptc street fighter flashed to 36-800 new ptc super street fighter flashes to 4600 doug thorley tri-ys I think they are 1 3/4 ,, 3" exhaust |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
383Stroker
NA Info http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...stroker_NA.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...troker_NA2.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...oker_NA_ET.JPG N20 Info http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng..._NA_200hit.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...NA_200hit2.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...ker_N20_ET.JPG |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
How about my little LS1 in my 55.2
Not sure of the weight but assuming it will be somewhere around 3900 with my weight "225" Engine info Bore = 3.90 Stroke = 3.62 Head data: 2.04/1.575 Intake Flow Information: .300 208 .400 257 .500 290 .600 312 Compression ratio 11.27:1 Type of intake Fast 92/NW92 http://texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp...d=646&catid=73 Header Data: 1 3/4" Primaries 30" Cam info: http://texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp...d=168&catid=44 Duration at .050" 232/234 Total Lift and based on what rocker ratio 595/598 Intake centerline 110 LSA 112 What rocker are you using? Stock LS1 Vehicle Data (I am going to try to keep this simple and use my aero for the most part). Total weight 3900 Front/Rear weight bias ??? What trans you are running (Gear ratio if different than stock) Stock LS1 4L60e with Shift kit. Size converter (STR if you have it) Super Street Fighter 3500 Gear ratio 9" 3.70 Differential (Open, production posi, spool) Open Diff Tire size (height, width and type, again if you have a link to the MFG's page, even better). MT ET Streets 31x16" Thanks |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Fast68.. I'll have to get to yours later.. But your killing me with the metric.. You want me to convert it too?? :) Just playing with ya..
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
You too, Tri5, I'll get to them maybe later tonight or tomorrow morning..
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
have no idea on flow numbers, but here's the rest
bore and stroke: 4.280 x 3.76 heads: 14097088 gen v. bowl ported 2.19 x 1.88 cr: 11/1 Intake: dart single plane port matched carb: 950 proform Headers: hedman 1 7/8 and 3"collector cam: comp mech. roller 11-711-9 duration 272/282 108 intake cl/ 680 lift comp roller rockers weight: 3950 Trans: turbo 400 w/transbrake conv: 10" 3800 stall rearend: full spool, 373gears, tires: 28x14.5x16 qtpros. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Thanks, seems very optimistic in my case...
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
4.06 bore 3.46 stroke, 2.16 intake / 1.59 exhaust, P/N 809-12598594 head part# there stock L92's, .100 74.9, .200 154.4, .300 225.3, .400 274.6, .500 308.8, .600 328.6, 10.7:1,
stock injection and intake, 1-3/4 to 1-7/8 with a 3.5" collectors about 30" of tube with 3.4" duals, Camshaft duration (@.050 in): 204 degree intake / 211 degree exhaust, Valve Lift (in): .551 intake / .522 exhaust, 114 lobe sep, 110 deg intake centerline, 1.7 ratio stock rockers, 3650 total weight, 60/40 weight bias, 4l60e, with 10" converter, 4.10 gears, 275/60r15 drag radials on back, with a spool. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
1Fast68
I was having a hard time getting the program to run your old converter. Said you didn't have enough TQ. Computer says this is what you will do with the new converter and it feels optimal shift points would be 7,200rpm.. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng..._Dynofixed.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...Dyno2fixed.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...68_ETfixed.JPG Sorry guys, I'll play with it more later for the rest of you.. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Thanks
It did feel like it didn't have any tq. I will run it tomorrow and see how they compare. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
For some reason I can't get the pig to leave. It dosn't spin or anything.
60ft 1.80 330 5.010 1/8 7.69 mph 91.24 1/4 12.07 mph 110.10 I did get a 1.78 1 time but it didn't run any better. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
1fast68: If you want to do a quick test get a duel plane intake. I bet that would boost your TQ down low and probably be the fastest fix. Your cam Duration is pretty mild and most likely set at a lower RPM then the intake wants.
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Rip,
IMO, I'm not sure a dual plane would help much, here is why.. The converter he has in it should be getting him far enough up in RPM to where the low end TQ isn't going to be a big issue. The heads he is running have a 260cc intake runner and have a 2.165 intake valve. Paired with a small cubbed motor, it hurts TQ even with a small duration cam. A duel Plane might help the low end TQ, but over coming the low velocity air flow in the heads is going to be a hard thing to over come. The L92 heads he has on that motor don't seem to like real big camshafts until there is a lot of cubic inch or stroke thrown at them. A 362ci motor is only going to require soo much air. The L92 heads flow well in to the 320CFM range stock from the factory, but at a lower velocity. I think that combo would be better suited with a different set of heads personally. Here is an overlay of his current combo with a typical single plain vs a dual. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...ke_comparo.JPG Here is an over lay of the existing combo with the L92 heads vs the ones that are on my motor. Easy to do since I have both head profiles saved. Mine only flow 306cfm but have a much smaller runner and only a 2.02 valve. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...ad_comparo.JPG |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Quote:
Currently there is no dual plane intake for my engine with these heads. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Tri5,
You did not have exhaust flow numbers so I used the ones for my heads since our flow numbers were similar. Says youd be best off shifting 1-2 at 7,400 and holding it in second like I was doing and locking your converter. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...ph_NA_tri5.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...rt_NA_Tri5.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...ET_NA_Tri5.JPG |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
69truck,
Are your intake and exhaust runners ported at all? If so I really need those numbers or it's going to be off quite a bit. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
yes, they have been ported, and so has my intake. I'll call awesome engines in selbyville de. tomorrow and see if they have any flow numbers.
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Well then with only a 9.2:1 CR there is only 1 way to get more flow for those big heads. Did someone say Turbo/Supercharger? With the converter being high a turbo will be under load before you leave the line.
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Super73,
Isn't shifting at 7,400 RPM a little high for my stock block? I was thinking of shifting at 6800>7000 RPM. I will be adding a couple pieces to make this thing run a little better. A 4200 Stall and 4.10 locker for the 9". Also are these numbers at the wheel or flywheel? Thanks Tri5 |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
GMC70C20
You did not give me your stall speed. So, I let the computer figure out what it feels is best as well as you shift points. It says a 3,600 verter and 7,200rpm would be best. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...0_NA_Graph.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...0_NA_Chart.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...0C20_NA_ET.JPG |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
The engine program spits out crank HP.
The Drag ET program is going to tell you optimal shift points for the combo you have. I can readjust your shift points to the 6,800-7,000rpm mark as I am saving everyones set up. This way if someone wants to know what changes they might see by changing stall speed, gear ratio, tire, little bit of laughing gas, I can put it through for them.. Please keep in mind htough, this is a computers best guess at the combo's we are presenting it so they may not be dead on. If your set up has not been to a machine shop, balanced and using better rod bolts, I'd keep it bellow 7,000 rpm for sure. Probably that 6,800 mark. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Tri5,
Here is what the computer says for 6,800 shift points with the current combo. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...i5_6800rpm.JPG Here is what is says for that with the 4,600 verter and 4.10's http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...verter_410.JPG Now the computer has "optimized" your stall and gear and thinks it would go best with a 5,300 verter and 5.00 rear gear and locking the converter in third. I didn't let it go beyond a 5.00 gear. Might have wanted more.. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...rter_5gear.JPG |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Quote:
That's what I thought, that without the rod bolts then 6800 would be max for this setup. Looking at the Drag ET, it looks a little low at the 1320' mark, I would think that I could get more that 105MPH somewhere around 108/109MPH, but that 60' time should be great if I could cut it. BTW: I do have a little 150 wet shot of laughing gas that I might use once I get it road ready. Tri5 |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Here's my flow number 301 @ .700
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Any idea on the flow at .300 and .500 for both the intake and exhaust? Low end TQ numbers can vary a lot with out several data points for the intake flow numbers.
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
I'll call him back, i didn't even think about getting all of that. We started talking about my converter, fuel lines and everything else.
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
If you read this before you call him back, also get exhaust flow numbers.
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Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
OK, you 'really' want to put EA to the test...
Heres one for you. This is my Nova small block. Without every detail EA will kick back some silly numbers sooooooooo... Short block 4.165" bore, 9.000" deck height Motown block 4" stroke 37pound Scat Pro light knife edged crank Oliver 6" rods, custom JE pistons w/ 11cc dish Cometic 4.2" bore x 0.039" bore head gaskets (net 13.29:1 compression) Gilbertson 12 qt screened stripper wetsump box pan w/ Titan oil pump. Cam,, almost hate to give those specs away, but there onl relative to this combination so,.. A Jay Allen custom roller. From the CamDr (0.050 #'s) Intake open 17.09 BTDC Lobe CL 110.63 I close 68.35 ABDC Duration 255.73 @ 0.050 Max lobe lift .4548 net valve lift w/ 1.8 Jesel shaft rockers, .819 (-0.018 lash = .801" valve lift) Exhaust open 72.18 BBDC Lobe CL 115.52 close 21.14 ATDC Duration 273.3 @ 0.050 Max lobe lift .4444 net valve lift w/ 1.8 Jesel shaft rockers, .799 (-0.020 lash = .779" valve lift) Heads are a set of AllPro 245RR 23° raw castings built by Uratchko. Valves were plunged in at 17°, 2.18" titanium valves, Exhaust are 1.65"castings. Flow numbers are: 0.1" = 57/44 0.2" = 123/102 0.3" = 190/150 0.4" = 249/194 0.5" = 298/233 0.6" = 335/241 0.7" = 351/256 0.8" = 365/264 0.85" = 374/- Exhaust is Lemons 2 to 2-1/8" stepped fenderwell headers, 4" collectors, no mufflers. Intake is a Uratchko ported Edelbrock RR supervictor developed to match / compliment the AllPro runner. Carb is a single Prosystems Dominator (wet flow was right at 1300cfm if I remember correctly,, looking for that build sheet) Run the thing on gas (VP C-14) and then I'll tell ya what the Superflow dyno said ;) What I'd like to see is what happens when the motor is converted to alcohol. Still toying with the idea of injection, but it will probably be a toilet instead 'IF' I ever make that change. |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Marv,
If you want you can take your specs down and PM them to me. For those of you that want to see how accurate it is but don't want to give everyone you combo, you can PM me. I gave you two sheets since it didn't start falling off until 7,200 and carried fairly well till 8k. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Enginedrag/Marv1.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Enginedrag/Marv2.JPG |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
You guys want to seee why Performance trends Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer is one of the most respected simulator softwares out there,,,,
here is the actual Superflow Dyno sheet for the motor detailed above. The sheet scaned so freeking big I felt a link was better than inserting the image. So I made a page and shrunk it down a bit. That Engine analyzer sutff it's just junk isn't it (LOL). It missed by 8 freeking horsepower at the peak,, that's only 1% folks. Pretty impressive for a program. Try that with DeskTop dyno and see what happens (what a joke) One thing it did miss a little on is the BSFC, this motor is unbelievably efficient. The old 650HP combination would burn a full gallon per pass (including driving to the staging lanes and driving the return road). This thing is making 150 more HP, and I'm burning only 3/4 of a gallon round trip. One key here to such deadly results,, you have to have EVERY stinking detail, no guess work or you get a guess in return. EA and DA has always been dead on if given complete and accurate input. Nice job Super,, that's a lot of work isn't it! |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
Not too Shabby. I decided to break it down in to 100rpm incraments for you. Then I put both in to an excel sheet to look at how far off it was accross the full span.
http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Enginedrag/MarvD1.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Enginedrag/MarvD2.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Enginedrag/MarvD3.JPG http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Enginedrag/MarvD.xlsx It was an average of 1.84% off the full RPM of your pull. It read a little higher than what you really made, but I'd say it would give anyone a very good idea of what they would run if all the info was correct and accounted for. I can sit and play with this thing for hours.. Playing with the optimize feature is fun. Here is the programs optimized cam over your existing. Red/Light Blue are the optimized and the Green/Dark Blue is your current set up. I asked it to keep the idle vacum above 5 as that what it said your existing set up was producing. Loss of bottom end TQ but quite a bit more up top. http://73-ls1.com/67trucksetlist/Eng...Doptimized.JPG |
Re: Engine Analyzer and Drag Analyzer.. Willing to put your info in.
hey super 73 would you please plug these #s in i'd be verry greatfull 383sbc 5.7 rod
4.030 bore 3.75 stroke speedpro H-859 CP30 compression 8.96 to 1 dart iron eagle 200 sbc 23 deg comb 72cc 2.02/1.60 200cc intake vol 75cc ex volgot these #s from web published by Chevy High Performance Magazine .200 129/112 .300 182/139 .400 226/166 .500 258/178 .600 255/186 flow in 262cfm@.500 lift/28" from dart flow ex 175 cfm@.600 lift/28" from dart Crane cams http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...64&lvl=2&prt=5 wg 1064 grind 300 2-H in .488 ad dur 300 w 1.5 ratio ex.510 ad dur 310 HARLAND SHARP 1.6 B&M 144 @ 8 lbs boost holley 750 cfm dbl pmpr mech sec hooker 1 3/4 32"x 3" coll 72 swb 3800 lbs w fat bastard behind the wheel. very curious as to these#s i was told by white performance +600 HP +600 TQ. thanks in advance super 73 happy holidays!!!! |
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