NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

I searched Craigslist for 292, hoping to find an engine for my 1960 F-600. I found a listing for a 292 Chevy in a C-50 4wd. It was in an out of the way town in the mountains and still hadn't sold. Nobody goes to Bodfish, Ca. I drove up there to look at it. It looked pretty good and the girl wanted $ 4,000. She had gotten the truck from her father before he died and she didn't want to sell it. She needed money and I bought it.
I got it without the flat bed because I plan to put a 10ft. fleetside bed on it. It had some rust on the hood but, she had an extra that was fine. It has a bit of rust in the corners of the doors but, not too bad.
I have a place up in Oregon and I'm sure that the truck will spend some time in the woods. Knowing this, I started painting the truck with Rustoleum. If I can't avoid scrapes and scratches, I can at least make it easy to touch up.

I've painted lots of stuff and the variouis vids on youtube show good methods for spraying thinned-down Rustoleum to get a very good surface.
The truck has 6 widow-maker rims,,, just like my F-600 had. it has lots of tread so, I can take my time looking for 20s or 22.5s
Reportedly, her father rebuilt the 4-speed and rear diff. It has a rockwell transfer case. Not sure about the axles. She took me on a test drive and it runs nice. It has the 292 but, I have no objection to that. I could drop in something else but, I don't plan to haul heavy loads.

I've unbolted everything that was removable. Everything is primered, painted and undercoated. I still need to do the doors. The cab is mostly painted. I'm using Valspar enamel hardner in the paint.
The engine has an MSD distributor and box. Reportedly, her father worked on the brakes. It only has a single master cylinder so, I'm going to take them apart and check. It needs new flex lines.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28...ps9nyw5p3i.jpg

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Looks good.

Nothing wrong with a 292. It's actually one of my favorite engines.

Keep us posted on it.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Good looking truck, the front axle is more than likely a Napco axle

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

I found the NAPCO sticker in the cab. I'm moving along well with the painting. The truck has the Rockwell transfer case. I learned something new while looking for wheels. You can buy wheel blanks and drill them to fit.
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/kuMAAO...8zI/s-l300.jpg

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

post up the real ebay link please . . .

do you need new stickers ? I have some extra from the ones I had made for the truck I am doing .

and I cant ever get your photo bucket album to open up for me . . .

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Here's one....

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

My sticker is in good shape because it is up high towards the roof. I suppose that i could put one on the glove box. Next thing I'm looking for is the fender emblem. http://www.classicpartsusa.com/produ...blems_and_Trim
I have the SM 420 trans. It is missing the long lever and release rod for the parking brake. It is also missing the little banana shaped piece that has teeth. If anybody knows of these parts, LMK.
I've got some rust in the rockers that is kinda a problem for the running board mounts. One of the running boards was lost? and replaced with something funky from another truck.

I'm getting the seat done,,, it was bad. I tried to re-install the windshield and broke it. Come to find out that the new weatherstrip is about 3 times as thick as the old one. There just isn't any way to get it past the pinch weld.
I took the sheet metal off to de-rust and paint it. The truck is so tall that I had to leave all the sheet metal off until the windshield is installed,,, no place to stand.
I have 2 Hone overdrives and an under-over 4 sp Brownie. I'm thinking of using an overdrive for the highway. I'll just use direct when the t-case is in.
I found blank 22.5 rims but, they are 8.25 inches wide. I prefer something closer to stock. Aluminum rims would really set it off nicely.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181277587905...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

If anyone on the East coast is motivated and needs a project, there is a fine looking Chevy with a Marmon-Herrington drive train and an Allison trans.
http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/cto/5927793488.html

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Well, I'm making progress. Need to take some pics. The truck is painted dark Hunter Green. All the glass is in. The weathersrtip is in. Almost impossible to shut the doors with the new weatherstrip. I'm still looking for the running board. The junkyards in the mid-west want to sell me later parts.
I searched the threads looking for numbers for radiator hoses. No luck. NAPA ordered me a set of hoses for a c30... even though I told them c50.

If anybody has numbers for a 1965 c50 with a 292, let me know. I'm still looking for bed-sides to splice together.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

It's getting there.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28...pslguayurb.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28...pskdm2kcn5.jpg

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Just in case somebody has the 292 and needs radiator hoses, I will post the numbers that i found. I took stiff steel wire and bent it to go from the inlet to the water pump and from the outlet to the thermostst housing. They flow well from the center of the tubes. No sharp turns. I put tape on both ends with the diameters listed. Then, I went to Napa and compared my wire forms to EVERY hose on the racks.
I finally found a top hose that was close to perfect. The lower hose was a different story. I found a good hose but, it wasn't aligned quite right. I cut it in the middle and rotated it 1/4 turn. I slipped in a short piece of copper pipe and it lines up very nicely.
The numbers;
7473
8949
I have a 1970 Power Wagon with a Chevy crossflow radiator and a Cummins "B" engine. I used big copper elbows and straigh hose for that project. I also built a Hilux with a MBZ 5 cyl diesel. I just bought long hoses with lots of bends and cut out the sections that looked right.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration,, front axle part numbers
 

I couldn't drive the truck without looking at the brakes AND inner axle seal. The diff was WAY down and I feared that the inner axle seals were bad. I took the whole thing apart. I'm posting numbers in case somebody else is looking for parts.
I didn't remove the inner seals.
The ID is to fit an axle of 1.58 diameter. The iD of the axle tube is 2.25
The inner bearing is a 566
The outer bearing is a 33269
The ilder bearing for the hub is a 6011X/C78. Any double sealed 6011 will work.
The gasket for the hub is a !C05 Fel Pro...Open the iD by about .080 with a drum sander
The hub seals are 416125 national

The shoes are 2 X 14
The drum number is GF-1 11100 2X14
The wheel cylinders are stepped with 2 diameters,,, 1 1/8 + 1 3/8
Instead of running a short shoe & a long shoe, they varied the cylinder pressure. You can use a 1 1/4 cyl. One shoe will just wear a bit faster than the other.
The right wheel cylinder is P/N 6000. The left side wheel cylinder is P/N 5999 Wagner

The Warn hub is a M19
It uses 2 snap rings and a circlip. The snap rings are W354 and W168.
I don't have a trade number for the circlip. The number at McMaster Carr is 97633A429.
The main drive pins in the hub are 1/4 X 1 inch and very easy to find. There is a small pin in the hub that faces outward and locates the last part that is assembled. The outer lock knob. This pin is 3/16 X 9/16

The flex brake hoses are a bit tired and I'm going to change them also.
The ends are HF1FX12 and HF1M16

I've ommited the spindle nuts and nut locks because that is still a work (disaster) in progress.
I got a good deal on a pair of 6-lug 22.5 wheels. I won't have any trouble in welding up the 6 holes and redrilling 10. The truck will never be very heavy so, I'm not worried about running radials on the old weak rims.
I have a 1960 F-600 boom truck that only weighs 6200 lbs. I run the tires with very low pressure.
Next chore will be the back brakes.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

between your thread info and mine I think we have more info in the last few months put up on the web for these old napco front axles. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=725284

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

I'm going to carry your seal number over to this thread;
"got my skf / cr 16650 seals yesterday ."
I read your specs on the oil for the trunions. I never really liked the idea of using oil. I've always used that blue marine grease.
Note to anyone who doesn't already know. Be sure not to lose or mix the shims for the upper and lower bearing caps. IF you lose them, you can buy sheets of shim stock and cut it with scizzors and punch the holes with a Whitney punch.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

that grease / oil stuff is NOT thin like oil . . . its thick as snot . . I heated it up good and warm on the wood stove and it was still fun getting it in the hole. :lol:

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Have you thought of loading the grease into an empty tube for the caulking gun? Old silicone caulking tubes clean up nice. You can take out the zerk fitting and pump it through the hole.
Does anybody know what thread is on the spindle? It appears to be something like a 2 9/16- 18. I want new spoindle nuts.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

it went in fairly easy when warm with grease fitting out and nipple on bottle .

its thickness and stickiness is fun in its own bottle I would have not wanted to do it 2 x times with calk tube in the mix .

altho you can get it in calk tubes or 5 gal pales but must order a lot and most of use would be hard pressed to use a 12 pack of tubes or 5 gal bucket worth .

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Just an update on the parts. Decades ago, many manufacturers built with oddball parts so that you would have to buy spares from them. Thousands of Harleys are asembled with 1/2-24 bolts.
Evidently, Warn and NAPCO did the same thing. The 10 drive pins in the Warn hub are NOT .250 ,,,they are .245.
Spindle threads are in even fractional sizes like 1 1/2,,, 2.0 ,,, 2 1/2, etc.
The spindles on the NAPCO axle are about .030 bigger than 2 1/2. I machined up a socket to fit the spindle nuts. They had already been chisled several times.
A friend made up some pins for me. The original pins are hardened but, they run against aluminum so, I'm using mild steel.
Next stop is; the rear brakes.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

At Some time in the remote past, my '65 lost a set of duals. The spindle nuts came off and everything came out. The weight of the truck landed just on the axle shaft. This distorted the spindle tube and elongated the threads. "They" just beat it all back together. It took me an hour each to get the 2 spindle nuts off.
Fortunately, OTC makes a thread chaser for just this problem. It has interchangeable dies for threads from 4 threads per inch to 20 threads per inch. My spindle is 16 threads per inch. The v-shaped guide is made of aluminum so, it doesn't flatten the tops of the threads when you turn it. I just worked it back and forth until it cut the threads deeper into the spindle tube.
I found new / used nuts at an old shop that has tons of stuff lying around.
I made nut sockets for both front and rear. Obviously, you can't go all the way around. The cutter die falls into the key-slot.

For those of you who find yourself taking apart the front hubs, you must removed the 3/8-24 allen bolt in the CENTER of the axle. You must also use the 2 7/16 NC threaded holes in the hub to force off the hub AFTER removing the center bolt.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration... a few more numbers
 

The wheel cylinder kits for the rear axle are Dorman 19381.
The rear axle oil seals are National 6358.
The wheel studs are Euclid, E-5683
I put the rear brakes all together and the drum wouldn't go on. I took it all apart and put each wheel stud in the lathe. 4 had runout. I bought 6 studs and pressed in 6 new and 4 old. It STILL didn't want to go together. I used a BFH and got the drum and wheels on.
I have no idea how they assembled it previously with so many bent studs.
I put it all together and bled the brakes,,, good pedal.
Next day, no pedal. It turns out that one of the front, stepped wheel cylinders had pits in the larger diameter. It didn't leak previously because, the piston and cup sat out just enough to be off the pits. When I put in new shoes, it pushed the cup back to the pits.

White Post Restorations will repair ANY hydraulic brake cyl. They press in a brass sleeve and hone it to size. They give a lifetime warranty. They charge $ 125 per wheel cyl. I considered the various options for repair. I ended up filling the back part of the cylinder with JB weld. There isn't any mechanical load so, why not?
I just need to bore it in a lathe and re-assemble.

The front NAPCO diff was almost out of oil when I drained it. It was oily around the pinon seal. I went to Hooper Rear End Exchange in Sun Valley 91352
I told them that the front diff looked pretty close to what the rear diff looked like. Amazingly, the guy brought out a seal that fit perfectly.
ABI 411330N the original seal was a C/R 25966

The headligth switch, of all things, is giving me fits. Sometimes the knob/shaft would lock in,,, sometimes not. I bought 3 new ones that did the same thing. Still working on that one.
The pinon seal installs from inside the housing. it all comes apart easily. I read the various literature and retorqued the pinion nut to 350 ft. lbs.
I still have to run up to oregon and get my second bed to do the stretch to 10ft. That's the next big project.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Progress

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Looking good.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Looks great! Going to be a cool truck.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Looks promising.
Greg.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Thanks guys. You notice that the bed doesn't require tubs for the wheels. The floor will be square and flat. Obviously, the bed will be too high to unload by hand. i'm building the typical scizzors type dump mechanism. The bed doesn't really look like it is 10 ft. long but, it is. The tires (22.5) stick out about 3 inches beyond the fenders. I'm pretty sure that plastic flare material will cover it OK.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

First of all, I love your truck! It's great to see the progress as well.

That is interesting, I had about decided the same for the bed in my 68 but not knowing the final tire size or what full compression would look like on the springs I was afraid to loose the wheel wells. On the 68 I had to raise the bed about 5 inches off the frame to line up with the cab, is yours similar? Also what size 22.5 tires are you running and what is the wheel width?

Keep up the great work!

-Richard

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

I'm figuring 5 inches also. That will give me room for the dump system. The tires are 9:00 --22.5 because I need the same circumpherence as the fronts. They are 8:25--20 mud & snow. I wanted mud and snow for the rears but, didn't find any in 9:00
I have 2 different wheel widths. I didn't measure them. I had to put the skinnies to the inside to make sure that I have clearance for chains.
I have 6 leftover widow-maker rins with snow tires. I might keep a couple for spares.
The mixed rims are all that I could find. I'm happy to have splits / tube type on the front because I can drop the pressure in sand.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

First off I love the truck man! I actually just posted about getting info on those front fenders because I want to try and mold them to make flares that match all around for tire coverage maybe that would work for you guys too.


Are your rims split rims or split ring rims? If split rims you couldnt give me a set to lower or raise the pressure in, split rings on the other hand aren't as terrible but I know people still dont like them especially when try to seat the tire for first time.

I'm not sure if bolt pattern is same but m939 trucks came with 11r20 goodyear G177 radials on them, split ring wheels with tubes but the tires themselves are made to be tubeless. You can find these tires pretty easy, I had them but went to 425's for flotation.
Your fronts remind me of the old armstrong M&S pattern, samson has them in 9.00-20 and 10.00-20 if you went back to 20's all around, they also make some aggressive tread 22.5's but not in a 9.00-22.5

https://simpletire.com/samson-10.0020-10069-2-tires

https://simpletire.com/samson-9.0020-90049-2-tires

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

I really don't have much use for fat tires. I have a 1 ton dually, 4 wd camper that weighs 10,000 lbs. It has 235-16 tires on it. I can make a u-turn in the soft sand at Pismo while pulling the buggy trailer.
I like skinnys because, they get through the top layer of mud and grab the base.
The six 10 lug wheels that I have are the ONLY rims I could find. The fronts are a one-piece wheel with a single lock ring. The only problem i've seen with split-ring wheels is; somebody had beat up the rings at an earlier dismount. Once the ring is distorted, it is a real problem.
I assembled my wheels just by kicking the ring.

I expect to use my truck in the woods. I do not like the idea of having steel flares sticking out where they will catch on things. You remember when Chevy came out with their dually. Everybody hooked a fender and ripped it.
I thought of buying nice trailer fenders and screwing them on to the bed-side. If I hooked them, I could just take them off.
This truck has round fenders, https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...5b2baea09f.jpg

I'll go with rubber flares for now.
There is another problem that some people just don't seem to understand. I've seen pics of a few trucks that have big singles.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1385411062
This is death for your thumbs. The center of the tire must be lined up with the center of the kingpin. If not, you get "bump steer". The steering wheel will be flying every which way. If you have your thumbs through the spokes, you can lose them.

10.00--20 may look nice and big but, I don't have power steering. I see trucks around SoCal that have been adapted to run 11R-24.5. I'm sure that they ride as bad as a forklift. My C-50 doesn't weigh much and I need some flex in the sidewalls to get traction and a decent ride. Looking at the stock rear springs, I don't see any way to get a decent ride. I thought of taking out a few leaves and adding spacers instead. I don't see much spring compression in the future.

I have an F-650 boom truck with the same tire arrangement. It only weighs 6200 lbs and is sprung for 17,000. You can imagine what it rides like.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

The 11r20 that I was suggesting is the skinny tire to the left and on my truck with a 14L cummins they sank in soft fields, the 425's had wheels that tucked them under truck pretty far so no problems with the bump steer. I was not suggesting you go to super singles or anything like that.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Only in my dreams do I find rims with such a nice offset and width.
I'm guessing that you have an NTC 300 or something similar. My 292 doesn't weigh anything. You definitely need all the flotation you can get for the weight.
My truck is mostly just for play. My place in Myrtle Point, Oregon is close to the Oregon sand dunes but, I don't see anything but flat sand in the future.
I'll be up on the logging roads poaching feral cattle. I built a BIG underground pit BBq and I need some practice.

They do sell 8.25 X 22.5 blank Aluminum rims on E-bay. I thought about it but, there is far too much offset for the inside dual to clear the spring.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

I've been considering losing a bunch of leaves from my spring packs and then adding air bags to get the best of both worlds. Either that or haul a thousand pounds or so of ballast to give it a better ride. :crazy:

-Richard

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

After so many years a spring pack just turns solid. That's why Chrysler tried to run mono-leafs. Most of the newer trucks try to run mono-leaf with air bags. The old Rolls Royce had lubricated springs wrapped in leather enclosures. A lot of packs have little slippers of nylon. All of this is done to reduce inter-leaf friction. I'll probably take out 1/2 the leaves, starting at the shortest.
I have air bags on my wood-gas truck.

A company I know bought Macks for front-loader trash service. The drivers refuse to drive them because it causes so much back pain.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration parking brake
 

I need this part. I hope that the image comes through the first time.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration,, almost lost it
 

I took my chevy for only the second drive since I got it together. I'm still working on the dump bed. The truck is way low-geared and I wanted to see if it would reach highway speed. Night time, WIDE street,,, I pushed it to 55 mph. All of a sudden, it began shaking VIOLENTLY, all over the road. I let off the gas but, nothing would bring back control. I finally locked up the brakes to try to save it. I ended up in the center and aimed backwards and crosswise.
It was so violent that the back step bumper ripped off. The tags are expired and I didn't want to hang around. I lost all my rear lights when the bumper ripped off. I picked up the pieces and took off. After about 2 miles I heard a noise and smelled something bad. The battery was upside down being whacked by the fan. I had to grab the wet battery and pull it up to the tray. The fan sprayed acids around the engine compartment.
Fortunately, the truck restarted but, I was in traffic without lights. I finally made it back home and washed down the battery and my hands.
In the second leg of the trip, the mudflaps and license plate disappeared.

The front axle can set up an oscillation just because it wants to. Even if you have hold of the steering wheel, the entire axle can shift side-to-side.
This is from a Jeep site.
"There are few things more terrifying than experiencing "death wobble" in your Jeep for the very first time. More times than not, it'll happen out of the blue soon after hitting a bump in the road or a pot hole, driving over a rough set of rail road tracks or even after driving over rhythmic sections of expansion joints in a concrete laid highway. The sensation is unbelievably violent and so much so that it can feels as if your whole Jeep is about to tear itself apart. You literally feel as if you're about to die and the only way to get it to stop is to bring your Jeep to a stop. Unfortunately, some people become so traumatized by death wobble that they become reluctant to drive their Jeep again and others go so far as to sell it."

The article talks all about maintaining your "track bar". The Chevy doesn't have a track bar but, I rsoon will.

https://wayalife.com/showthread.php/...n-Do-to-Fix-it
BTW, the battery is new. I patched the hole with The Right Stuff
and it is fine.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

old bias ply tires help this problem to show up .

loose to no pre-load on king pin system also .

and only 2 ways to stop this on the drive . #1 = STOP and #2 = crazy horse power to power threw it witch 95% of us dont have under the hood .

trac bar wont help you much on our style axles . its the play in the king pin area of the knuckle that gets to bouncing .

that jeep in the first pic is a 4 link front coil sprung axle setup . way diffrent than our old super stiff leaf spring setups we run .

also if you want to try anything cheep first these trucks should have a steering dampener on the tie rod setup for sure . newer style vehilces after these were made got them . easy to retro fit on also .

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

The front axle uses closed trunions with huge timken bearings that are shimmed to tolerance / fit. Got no kingpins. The tires still had the paper stickers on them. 8:25-20 mud & snow.
The 292 single barrel carb has no crazy HP. There was no way that I was going in a staright line anyway. I've had excellent luck with track bars before on straight axles. I have zero faith in steerring dampners. I've cured this problem before with a track bar.

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

Hi Dan,
Sorry to hear about this problem, it definitely takes some wind out of your sails. I am thankful that the result was not worse.

I had some experience with death wobble myself. A number of years ago we had an 80 model 4x4 3/4 ton Chevy truck on the ranch. It had those wide white spoke wheels that were so popular in the 80s and 90s. They were still 15" and the tires were maybe 12" wide. The main difference was that the offset put them far outboard of where the stock wheels would sit. At 40 mph or so the front end would just go berserk and you just about had to come to a stop to settle it back down. I hated that truck. Along the way we ran across a 73 that although very rusty was a good solid truck that drove well. We bought it to replace the 80 and switched the wheels/tires from the 80 and we suddenly had death wobble on the 73. (The 73 had street tires when we bought it) We finally bought some "skinny" 16" mud grips for the stock wheels on the 73 and the problem went away again. I think that the wheels sitting outbound at all from stock is the biggest contributor of all. As you are probably aware a straight line drawn through the pivot point of the knuckles should hit the ground at the center of the tire. If I remember correctly didn't you have mismatched wheels or am I confusing your build with another?

Again, I'm glad you are safe.

-Richard

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

I had this happen in my 5000 when I first got it. Scared me pretty good being in a big truck with no power steering with death wobble.

My remedy (as SweetK30 has said), get a steering dampener. I installed one of the draglink and so far so good. If you hit a man-hole cover the right way it wavers just a bit, but a quick jerk on the steering wheel keeps it from going further... new front shocks should take care of that (still has originals).

I have an IFS front end that is a bit worn and old bias plys.

Steering stabilizer is for a motor home, was the heaviest one I could find on ebay. A Roadmaster Reflex.

Attachment 1696675

Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration
 

I took off the widow-maker rims and got some splits (2 piece) that had the same offset. I know about bump-steer and i want no part of it,,, especially with manual steering.
You're right about those old white spoke rims. Too much positive offset.
I've built other trucks with straight axles.
The spring eyes are the attachment point. The spring center is the lowest point. What I've seen happen is; the center whips left and right. The chevy springs are slipper type with only one bushing,,, and no shackle. That one bushing just isn't enough when the truck is raised (NAPCO blocks). Also, the springs are pretty narrow for the weight of the truck. Later stuff has wider springs and the U-bolts get a better grip.
I'm changing the U-bolts today.