Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 and Sanderson BB8 Headers Project
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Sorry in advance for the lenghty rant just to ask one question!
No matter how much effort I put into getting prepped to do a project, something jumps out to derail me a bit...which is to be expected when mixing old with new, I suppose! It took me nearly 10 months to receive my EFI kit, and having done much of the preliminary work, I decided to have headers installed for me at the same time that I was getting the O2 Sensor Bung welded into my exhaust. Before purchasing the BB8's, I followed Sanderson's instructions about verifying that I actually had the original Big Block motor mounts installed...and thanks to Lock Doc's pictorial post, I was able to determine that I did in fact have the "year specific" motor mounts installed under my 454 in the forward position (there are only two positions, right?). My '72 Suburban originally came with a 350 Small Block, but the original owner (who worked for a GMC/Chevrolet truck dealership as Service Manager for over 45 years) used the correct '72 Only Big Block motor mounts when he did the transplant...so I believed I was golden. Not the case when the BB8's install was attempted by my "Header-Pro" and I was quickly called and given the bad news that the passenger side collector was hitting the frame and not allowing the mounting flange to seat against the head (driver side was not even attempted at this point). I did some more research and found an interesting write-up along with some pictures from when Sanderson developed and test fit the BB8's using an original Big Block truck. If I'm not mistaken, the Big Block truck they used was a '68 to '71 version...and they even showed that a cresent shape was ground out for the fittment of the motor mounts??? I'm confused by two things (actually a lot more than two but at this moment, I'll address the two): 1) Does Sanderson know that in '72, GM had a "one year only" motor mount for the Big Block trucks? And 2) Doesn't grinding an area of the frame negate the idea of designing headers that actually fit this application? Both questions are rhetorical, but you get my point, right? Now I have also read that there was a design change early on, so that could explain no longer having to grind the frame...which leads to my actual question to the much more experienced board members: Do the '68 to '71 Big Block motor mounts position the engine higher than the '72 only Big Block motor mounts? A higher fit is what my header-professional said was needed. At this point, I'll have to wait until my EFI is up and running before raising the 454 up (and possibly out) to determine what needs to be done to fit the headers...but I did get the O2 Bung welded in place after the passenger side exhaust manifold was reinstalled. Am I missing something obvious??? I'll add some pictures, but please ask questions if you think I'm overlooking something! Thanks for any thoughts you might have. Woody Attachment 2235047 Collector contacting frame. Attachment 2235048 Gap between flange and head...primary tube contacting motor mount stand. Attachment 2235049 Passenger side motor mount stand. Attachment 2235050 Crappy side view picture of motor mount. Attachment 2235051 Driver side motor mount stand. |
Re: Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 and Sanderson BB8 Headers Project
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First three photos credit to Lock Doc...Thanks Leon!
Attachment 2235052 Obviously what I have. Attachment 2235053 Will these raise the engine? Attachment 2235054 Obviously what I don't have. Attachment 2235055 Does this spacing appear to be correct for the Big Block? Attachment 2235056 At least I got my O2 Bung installed!!! Woody |
Re: Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 and Sanderson BB8 Headers Project
Lots of troubles, hope they get straightened out. My '70 BB truck has an HEI; the cap is a little over 4" away from the firewall. I have the opposite problem- my fan is very close to the radiator- the front edge is 1-1/2" away. It's always been like that, for the 41 years that I've known this truck. I finally just built a custom shroud for it. I was looking at the Blueprint Engineering 496 stroker, which is based on the 454. I wouldn't be using headers, but your problems give me pause on that kind of purchase.
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Woody |
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Woody |
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Before I got after the cooling system, my truck would get to 260º, pulling the travel trailer. A BBC will live at those temps, but you're taking its life in your hands. It would also get hot idling. Replaced the fan clutch for the idling, since it's a known good radiator- still runs hot. So why would it run hot with a known good radiator, at speed? The answer was stupid simple. I put a high-flow thermostat in it, and that cured it. This truck has had problems with running hot the entire time I've known it- 41 years! If my FiL stopped for gas, there was going to be at least a half-hour wait until it cooled enough to start again. Some people on here run a BBC without even a shroud, and have no temp problems. :???: Mine never goes over 190º now (180º thermostat) on steep hills, but I have yet to tow the trailer in hot weather because the campgrounds have been closed, and I'm averse to dry camping in the desert. I put a severe duty clutch on it, too. Boy does that thing roar when it gets going! :lol:
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Woody |
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I never had an original BB truck but I thought the style in your first pic started in '73 models.
I had a 67 that I installed BB on the SBC stands. The headers didn't fit and there was plenty of grinding on the frame and hammer work on the pipes. In the mid 1980's I wanted to install another BB in a '72 and went to the dealer and purchased the stands you have in the second pic. Yes it moved the engine up and forward. |
Re: Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 and Sanderson BB8 Headers Project
Beach-Burban,
As @Bigdav160 mentioned, the mounts in the first image are what I thought were post-72 mounts & the 2nd image is what I always understood were for 68-72's. They're what I used for my BBC swap in my 67/68 mothballed project. LocDoc knows his history but I researched/learned about the mounts before doing my swap & never was told there was a '72 only' frame stanchion/mount. Interesting to learn this. Back when I did my BBC swap, Sanderson didn't make the BB8 headers for trucks. I used the BB3's for 68-72 Chevelles. I had to trim minimal amount from the edge of the frame rail (~.1875-.250"?) where the collector is located. I just wanted to share what I did. |
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Woody |
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Believe me...I'm no expert with regards to any of this, but I also read that because a BB wasn't available until sometime in '68, '67 frames need a lot of work when swaping in a BB with headers no matter which mounts you use? So they sold you '68 to '71 mounts for a '72...that's interesting! I wonder if they knew that you would have less issues with the older mounts? Exactly my question! Thanks Bigdav...I really appreciate your input! Woody |
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I've heard that the BB3's would work, but I went with the BB8's as they are made for our application...and should not have been an issue at all!!! I am curious if the 67/68 BB project of yours used a 67 or 68 frame? If 68, I understand the minimal trimming due to using BB3's...but if you used a 67 frame, I would have thought that a tremendous amount of work would have been required? I've said it many times...I'm no expert (unless asking questions is an art form):lol:. Thanks again! Woody |
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Woody |
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Those 72 only look an awful lot like squarebody stuff.
I thought our 68 was on squarebody mounts, but maybe they're 72 mounts. |
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Woody |
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Beyond that, what about making some flat spacers that can be inserted between the MM pad & block? |
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There's some hackery on the driver's side rail.. |
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Spacers aren't a bad idea, but that seem like it would take about the same amount of work as replacing with the proper mounts? Thanks again. Woody |
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Woody |
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If you're not sure the mounts (stanchions) are the Golden Ticket you seek, you're still potentially stuck. To me, that would be frustrating. Say the 'new/different' stanchions allow the headers to fit but now the fan doesn't line-up or a valve cover interferes w/something (common issues when using different parts). Thus my suggestion of tweaking things to work w/what you have since the drivetrain is already installed/in-place. I get it if you don't wish to go that route. If someone had both types & would let you try the set-up that's pre-73 big-block (but different from yours) to see if that solves the issue, that's 100% how I would go about it first. Barring that and/or wanting to move forward sooner than later, I'd tweak things. I wish I could help & will definitely be watching to see what the answer is to your dilemma. |
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