1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

So after searching long and hard for a rust free truck in Iowa...I finally bit the bullet and bought a 12v swapped V3500 in Washington! I had a good friend inspect it and buy it for me. It will be here in Waterloo IA in 6 days where I can finally completely inspect this (hopefully) fine machine and get to working on the modifications that I have in store.

Currently it has:
Front frame section was boxed with 3/16" steel and custom motor mounts were made out of 1/4".

Engine:
96 12 Valve Cummins

•New Cylinder Head. With Hard Seats
Ported and polished
60lb over valve springs
ARP Head Studs
OE Cummins Gasket
• PDD 5x.014 Injectors
• DPS 62/65/12 Turbo
• #10 plate
• 4K RPM Gov. Springs
• 17.5* Timing
• 4" Exhaust with 8" Stack
• New Lift Pump
• 1 Wire 136amp Alternator

Transmission:
NV4500
•Centerforce DFX Clutch
•Single Mass Flywheel
•New Hydraulics
Upgraded:
•Input Shaft
•Main Shaft
•Cluster Shaft
•New 3rd Gear
•5th Gear Nut
•HD Synchros
•All New Bearings

Transfer Case and Axles

GM NP205
Advance Adapter Kit to mate to Dodge NV4500
Front: Dana 44 with truss. 4:09 gears
Rear: 14 Bolt Corp. 4:10 gears. Detroit Locker
New driveshafts
New brakes front and rear.
4" Lift
Custom built rear leafs

I plan on:
Downsizing the injectors to 5x.012s
Putting a normal 4" exhaust system on it with hushpower muffler
Replacing the fenders and hood with new sheetmetal
Restoring the interior
Most likely installing Suburban buckets, overhead console, and center console
Lowering it about an 1" and installing 35s
Changing out the D44 with a D60 with the works
Changing gearing to 3.73 and adding front and rear ARB
AFC live
Make a MUCH better trans crossmember


My plan is to make an exciting daily driver that can also take off to Moab or Montana and have everything built to be "unbreakable" but most importantly reliable.
Much more to come..!

Id really appreciate any feedback/advice as this is my first complete build

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Looks like a neat project with a lot of the hard work done....what part of WA did it come from? Is it in your possession yet?

Came in from loon lake area and I took possession last week. I've been driving her here and there to get things sorted and get a good shakedown.
Some parts are here and more ordered, so updates will follow.
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Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Nice buy! I like your plans for the truck. It should clean up pretty nice and make a sweet truck! Once you get the AFC live, you may not need to down size your injectors.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Thanks! The AFC live is supposed to be delivered this weekend so we will see how it handles. I also have fit her for a grown up exhaust system. Since there isnt a Chevy Cummins exhaust kit, have you had any luck using a 1st gen or 2nd gen dodge exhaust? I bought a 41" Donaldson and am willing to fab my own, but it sure would be nice if there is something out there that would cut down on the fab time.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

No, there is no really good kit for them. But, I can get you the mid section for a first gen dodge that will get you over the tcase. You can make the down pipe cheaper than buying one I'd almost bet. I'm betting you need one for an HX40 flange? I have used 2nd gen dodge, super duty, and even newer chevy diesel tail pipes. It really depends on how you want the tail pipe outlet to look.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Ok, Ive already made the downpipe, so Ive got that covered. If I can get over the transfer case with a first gen dodge then Id be home free, it should just be a combo of muffler and a bit of straight pipe until I get to the axle. Any axle pipe should work I would assume.

Any recommendations for side exit that can fit between the leaf spring and the 31 gal suburban tank?

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Here's a suburban I did. I used a 4" kit from a 93 dodge and I had to modify the tail pipe to fit nicely.

http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...t=v+rig&page=6

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

A bit of an update.
I got the 1st gen dodge exhaust in with some cutting and welding, but I have the tailpipe touching the corner of the suburban tank. Im thinking about putting in a heat shield with spacer on the corner to push it away, I assume thats enough? Diesel does vaporize like gasoline so I think Ill be OK.

I put my new injectors in and installed the AFC live, but still cant get it to not smoke. I even turned the AFC live to the minimum and removed the pre boost screw to no avail. Then I learned that the PO adjusted the star wheel all the way forward and didnt install a longer spring! No wonder, theres no tension on the foot. So I have a TST spring on the way.

I also braved the Pella tornado to get a rough Dana 60 from Dougs 4x4. I couldnt be happier, unless I actually got to see my first tornado!

I also discovered why I have such a jerky throttle at low RPM. I only have a VERY stretched out throttle return spring. So that too is in the mail. My jerky throttle only happens when its warmed up so it might be a clogged fuel filter or possibly a bad OFV. I have a new fuel filter installed now and will have to see how the throttle return springs work before I get a new OFV.

Has anyone used the torque motorsports 2009+ dodge 3500 brake conversion on the dana 60? It seems like a great idea, just wondering about opinions.
http://www.torqmotorsports.com/Dana-60-Big-Brake-Brackets_p_263.html


Up next will be a bit boring, check and set valve lash, install 35 spline stub shafts and ARB, high steer kit and custom ORD leafs.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

I also found out the "rebuilt" NV4500 sure as hell doesnt feel like its rebuilt. Ive been mulling over swapping into a 47RH, but then I dont think I can reuse my chevy NP205. Any thoughts/recommendations for swap vs rebuild?

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Do you know if you have a TH400 big bearing case 205? Do you know the splines of the input of it now?

Those tornadoes were crazy that day. You were only about 24 miles from where I lived. Next time you get over this way let me know.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Yes it is a 32 spline figure 8 bolt pattern, thats why I want to keep it if at all possible.

I will hit you up next time, the silo across the highway from Dougs lost its roof. Pretty nuts!

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Coming along nicely there. I just finished rebuilding a front dana 60 for my truck too. Parts for those are expensive....I see its 4.56 gears so I guess you will be re-gearing it? I used SVL gears in mine, made by Dana, most ratios are about $150, they set up nicely and seemed to be good quality.

Since your going 35 spline outers...Dennys drivehsafts has the cheapest stubs at $85 each and right now 35 spline Yukon hubs are about $280 on amazon and there is a $30 rebate on them, pretty good deal.

How is your 205 mated to the trans and is the trans chevy or dodge? I guess the chevy trans would be 32 spline output?

I rebuilt my NV4500 because I had to switch from 2wd to 4wd, really I just changed the mainshaft and the input gear but it was very simple to work on. Didn't need any special tools either since the rear bearings are not pressed on the newer mainshafts.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

There are also 2 plastic bushings in the throttle linkage that wear out, if your bellcrank has a lot of play you should change the bushings, they are cheap and available from cummins.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

It is heavy! And that means expensive Im finding out!
I want to go to 3.54 but I can only find 3.73 for both the D60 and 14B.

Thanks for the heads up on Denny's, Ill definitely check them out.

The NV4500 is Dodge and it uses an Advance Adapter kit to mate it to the NP205.

I ordered the heavy and light throttle spring, both cummins parts, and hopefully that along with my AFC spring will control the smoke/fuel delivery. From my very preliminary assessment, these are the only things that are missing/worn out.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Dennys Driveshafts also has the cheapest dana U joints and should have the gears too along with free shipping over $99. They also have the cheapest king pin rebuild parts, get the part numbers from the dana 60 bella vista article on Pirate 4x4.
I got my front rotors from Summit with free shipping, I looked up the raybestos part number from rockauto and then found it on Summit, I think the rotors were $37 each, summit had to special order them so it took about 2 weeks to get them.

The long inner axle shaft is about $65 so I bought that new from dennys too. The short one I used a sleeve to repair the inner seal surface, those are about $25 from rock auto.
If you need any part numbers on that stuff just ask.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

I had 3.73 and just changed to 3.54, my tires are 32.5" tall, I am happy enough with the change but it was better with the 3.73 gears. I'm running dana 70 rear from a first gen dodge, 65" wide which looks good on my 72 but would be a little narrow on a square body. The 14 bolt is much stronger and with your taller tires the 3.73 gears will be perfect.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

I appreciate it Randy, but I think Im going with 14" rotors and 2 piston calipers from a ram 3500.

Im looking at Dennys now.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

the 2011 and up 2500 vans had a 10.5 rearend option that has 3.54 gears in them. they are an aam rearend thats the same as a 14bolt. I have a set in my 14bolt that I bought off ebay, guy had a bunch of factory takeouts. hes all out now. only way I can find them now is brand new from the dealer. haven't checked on price yet though.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Its been a long time since my last post. New girlfriend, new house, and new job has taken up most of my time. I got the truck relocated this winter in between snow and -43 windchill days and started tearing her down.

I removed most of the front end, except the bumper because it is welded to the frame.

Then I pulled the pump and lines as well as the front cover and tappet cover to seal some leaks.
Found out that my rear pump support has been broken for who knows how long so reassembly was on hold.
I received a new OEM support and front crank seal because my crank snout was badly grooved. This last weekend I went to install everything and bump the timing back to 16 degrees, only to find that I lost the support!!
I spent 3 hours cleaning my garage up and still couldn't find it anywhere! So i ordered another and am currently waiting.

Once I get the pump in and secured and the engine buttoned up, it will be time to rework the radiator support and modify the AC bracket to move it above the Alt. I can imagine spending $600 to get one of the kits when a few beads and some plate steel will get my the same result. I took my inspiration from grw800 whose thread is located here: https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/9...d-cummins.html

Then it will be on to a new clutch and trans support....possibly a twin stick for the np205. Not to mention finally getting around to filling up the Dana 60.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Many things have changed/progressed.
My dana 60 has new 3.73 gears, ARB locker, 35 spline shafts and paint job. I decided to order the complete rebuild kit from 4wd factory after disassembling the 30 year old axle.
https://i.imgur.com/r5E4mbN.jpg
Im currently waiting on the torque motorsport disk brake adapters to fit the MUCH larger dodge 3500 calipers, due to COVID-19, before I can put it all together
https://i.imgur.com/v28Rro3.jpg

I decided to part with my Nv4500 and NP205 and go with a 47re for convenience and (when built) longevity.
I found a 98.0 harness and PCM for a couple hundred bucks and a 91 dodge NP205 with adapter and 23 spline coupler for a few more.
Upon disassembly, the idler bearings and one shift collar are shot so I it will be getting a rebuild.
Haven't locked down a trans, torque converter, flexplate yet, but plan on getting something cheap to use as a core for either a complete dynamic trans or get it built locally with Goerend components.
@Dieselwrencher Do you have any IA trans rebuilders that you would recommend?

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

A friend of mine, Chris Snyder was building them but IDK if he is currently or not. I'd also recommend getting an aunt eater from Firepunk to run the 47re. The stock PCM works but the shift points suck IMO. I have a local guy that builds trannys for me but I'm not sure on his warranty on the dodge diesel units etc. I'll find out.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Big Delay.
On my road trip to Montana/Washington in Aug my trusty 2001 4runner decided to puke all the oil out of the engine and ATF out of the trans after crossing the Rocky Mountains. She had 273k miles on her and I was hoping to keep it pretty much forever, but when all this happened 1,800 miles away from home I didnt even investigate what caused it, and decided to buy a new one.
https://i.imgur.com/gmmMawM.jpeg

Once I got to Montana, I found a holy grail of Junk Yards near Somers, MT. There were probably 100 various squarebodys, as well as almost anything cool you can think of!
There were 2 fastback mustangs!! IN A JUNKYARD!! along with 1st gen Camaros, AD trucks, literally everything. These show very little of the yards and I apologize, my dad and I were too awestruck to properly document the experience.
https://i.imgur.com/CofJy4s.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uYTIf9Z.jpg


I also decided to get into ammo reloading around the same time. (horrible timing, I know!)
This was my initial setup, but Ive gotten much deeper down this rabbit hole.
https://i.imgur.com/SZ1goNb.jpeg

Since I can now make my own ammo, why not buy something Ive always wanted!? So I also bought a Marlin .444 Dark series, .357 1894C, and Ruger GP100 in .357 because, it gets cold in Iowa, need an inside winter activity.

As far as truck updates go, snagged a 97 47RE with TC for a decent price and dropped it off at Schmitt Performance Transmissions today. Chris seems like a great guy!
I decided to go with Goerend everything, including billet input and their new AD torque converter (supposed to be the best of both worlds).

Unfortunately, even though the 91 NP205 is 23 spline, it does not bolt up to the 47RE without cutting the trans output shaft or using a ORD adapter. So to preserve spline engagement and make, I got the ORD adapter ordered.

I also bought a wabco air compressor and have it partially installed.
https://i.imgur.com/4aXyNcQ.jpeg
Ill need to massage the throttle linkage.

With AMPLE room for a power steering pump!!:lol:
https://i.imgur.com/ItxJ6TE.jpg

I was very confused over all the connections locations for oil and coolant. Thanks to Jonesy at Adventure Vehicles NW, I understand how it all goes together.
Here are some pictures if anyone is in the same position (way over their head!)
https://i.imgur.com/YuN00ah.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GjfOKE7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7vJv5r6.jpg

And Ill be getting an oil feed line than adapts the vacuum oil feed to the air compressor, the return will flow into the gear train.

When I was at Lowes a bit ago, came across this badass Cummins swap with about the best license plate Ive seen.
https://i.imgur.com/R4HLUOx.jpeg

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Wow, that junk yard is awesome! I'd love to go there! Nice you got into reloading. You're probably not running around trying to stock up like the rest of us. :lol: Nice score on the air compressor. I kind of wish I put on eon my orange truck. Make sure you put the support bracket under it that bolts to the block other wise it will break the gear housing! The old chevy is pretty sweet!

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Thanks DieselWrencher, the 100% duty cycle is definitely overkill for what I am going to be using it for, but rule #1 is to always look cool!:smoke:
That air compressor flows about 15.4CFM at 110psi, which I don't know about you guys, but I think that's pretty stout! Ill definitely install all support brackets when its spinning, just got to lift the engine up a bit so that I can share the rear support with the engine mount.

I got my 47RE back from Schmitt Performance Transmission, with a full rebuild, billet input shaft, and Goerends valve body. I also bought the Goerends AD triple disk converter, its supposedly built with an Allison stator and is marketed as the "Best of both Worlds" in between the 15SS and 17SS. So we'll see how it goes.

I welded up the flexplate stiffener, and of course the best weld was the last...
https://i.imgur.com/BWasCS1.jpg
I also got the trans to T-case adapter from ORD (but it looks like its the same as the Advance Adapters one).
https://i.imgur.com/bf8sxrO.jpg

I do have a question about transmission shift linkage on these swaps. Its not in the truck yet, but just something that Ive been thinking about. The truck still has the column shift column, but was converted to 5 speed before I got it.
It appears that the column shifter on our trucks function about the same as the dodge trucks.
https://i.imgur.com/P41Aywo.gif
Has anyone had any issues using the transfer rod from the GM to the 47RE? or are there better options for this?

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

I put a 12v and 47rh in a 88 V2500 and I made a bell crank sort of because the GM and Chrysler valve body gear motion is back wards from each other if I remember correctly.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

My Dad flew in a few days ago and we pulled the engine and installed a new oil pan and rear main seal/housing gasket as well as the trans without issue.
The factory crossmember was able to be reused by using the rear mounting hole in the frame for the front hole in the crossmember and drilling out the rear.

We are having an issue seating the AA adapter for the 47RE to NP205. It goes almost all the way in but there is about a 3/8" gap that we just cannot close. We feel like weve tried everything. Transmission jack and/or cherry picker to support the transfer case. Even a couple hits with a sledge on a 2x4 to drive it home and still nothing.
It seems that the inner lip on the front face of the adapter is hanging up so it cant slide into the transmission overdrive unit.

Sorry for the massive picture.
https://i.imgur.com/9njLYV5.jpg

Does anyone know if were overlooking something stupid or am doing it wrong? or do we have to pull it and machine the lip to fit inside the transmission?

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

So...after talking with Advanced Adapters, the ORD is the same as their factory replacement Dodge adapter (even though it has a different part number).. so the ORD description of “…everything you need to adapt your 23 spline 47RE, 727, etc to a small bearing figure 8 NP205 case!” is still technically true, but the 47RE output shaft and coupler must be cut approximately 0.5".
This makes the output shaft flush with the rear flange of the transmission, making it the same stick out length as the 518 trans that the Dodge NP205 came stock on.

Since I have a stock dodge adapter, I will be returning the ORD piece and making the cuts.
I bought a fancy new Dewalt portable band saw and already cut the coupler down 0.5".
I was thinking I could do the same on the trans output shaft without pulling it out of the truck, but Im now having second thoughts.

I was planning on stuffing the rear of the trans with shop rags, taping it closed, and use the rear flange of the trans as a fence for the blade....but that's seeming more and more sketchy the more I think about it.

Then I was thinking about pulling the overdrive housing and cutting it still in the OD housing, but how would I stop the shaft from spinning? use the coupler as a lock and clamp that?

Or do I need to do it the hard way and remove the output shaft from the OD housing to cut it correctly?

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v 47RE build
 

Also, because I already have the stock PCM and harness from a 98.0 12V Im thinking that I will use this and a potentiometer instead of the TPS to adjust the OD shift point.
Reading through the FSM, there are still a good amount of inputs to the shift determination logic that could be tuned by something like the anteater controller.

Do you think the stock PCM would be good enough for my engine/trans combo/driving expectations or should I just bit the bullet and get the anteater right out the gate?

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Ive also decided to part with my Wabco air compressor because of fitment issues. Ill be going with an extreme outback or Viair setup, so ill post the complete assembly in the classifieds if anyone is interested.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

I'm not a fan of the 47re shifting from the stock pcm so I say trash can it. The 2 trucks I've ridden in with an anteater were very nice though. I still recommend them. :lol:

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Ive heard this many times and I think Ill finally take this advice and bite the bullet.

Unsurprisingly, After cutting 1/2" off the 47RE transmission output shaft as well as the 23 spline coupler, and using the stock Dodge transfer case adapter, everything went together easy as pie!
https://i.imgur.com/fwFvnV8.jpeg

I am a bit nervous about this 250lb cast iron T-case hanging off the back of an aluminum transmission, so Ive been looking into mounting options.
This case does not have the 2 threaded holes in the passenger side ear, so Im thinking about using something along the lines of this.
https://www.beyondprecise.com/produc...ssmember-plate

Or do you guys think it would be better to just drill and tap that ear and use the stock style Chevy mount?
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/IMG_0033.jpg

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

my 205 has been hanging off my aluminum tail housing on the nv4500 happily for 10+years. that bracket may end up holding it so well it breaks the trans from not moving with the trans.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Same here. I figured if the 1st gen dodges had nothing on them and as many 47rh's and 518's I've had and worked on over the years, if those weren't cracked or broken, I'd leave it alone. I figured with the torque that mount on the t case would be a pivot point and I'd for sure break something. :lol: My truck has a 47rh in it and a NP205. The 47re OD units are shorter so theoretically should be as strong or stronger. Also, the 241dhd cases these had on them aren't light either. And those had no extra bracing on them in the dodges either.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

I may be interested in the compressor, if you still have it. Ill shoot you a PM.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Sorry my man, I just shipped it out to its new owner this morning

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

So....I moved again. This time in the right direction, West. I was able to find a huge promotion (thanks to the great resignation I think) in Sandpoint ID that met all my salary/benefits requests with the first offer. Not to mention, brought me back to the northwest and dont have to deal with all the John Deere strike Bull**** thats still going on; while I am 100% am on the side of the UAW 838 employees! Similar issues are partly to blame why I was looking to leave Deere before all this kicked off.
But was able to secure a nice 3 Acre property with 2 large machine sheds.
https://i.imgur.com/ShdoEuF.jpeg

Before I moved in, I was staying at my late grandmothers house in Kalispell MT and her neighbor had this cherry shortbed.
https://i.imgur.com/9nWhYBg.jpeg
I never caught him to talk about it because I was only there for a few days, but let me tell you...it was VERY nice!


About a month later my truck was delivered and I havent worked on it one bit. Its been rough having to ride free dirtbikes for "work" but ORD suspension is next as well as installation of a Rob Bonney intercooler mount into my core support.

I know Ive asked about exhaust before, but my aluminized pipes already rusted pretty terribly just sitting in my Iowa garage, so im going to spend the money to get a stainless system. Do you think it would be best to get a 1st gen cummins 4"HX40 downpipe and then fabricate the rest of the piping? Or frankenstein a 1st gen and a 2nd gen system?

EDIT: Sorry, I dont know how to make the photos smaller after I post to imgur, ill try to remember for posting next time.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

Congrats on your move! That's weird the galvanized stuff was rusting setting in your garage. I've had projects set outside and the exhaust be out in the open and the stuff not rust. Not until you drive the vehicle on the brine covered roads. :lol:

Money wise I'd just get the HX40 down pipe 1st gen kit and modify that down pipe if need be. Sometimes it can be more expensive to buy the 2nd gen dp and a 1st gen kit. The last 2 chevy trucks I did I welded a v band on the hx35w outlet and made the down pipe. I've got one more to do this month and I'm not sure which way I'll do this one yet.

Re: 1987 V2500/3500 12v nv4500 build
 

I agree, I dont understand either, I drove with that exhaust for about 150 miles and then it's been sitting for over a year in the garage.
Its an MRBP exhaust, Ive heard only good things, but man Im not impressed.