z'd frame?
i know this q been asked a million times but has any one here completed a 3.5 to 4''z? i need to know what is and interferance? and weres the best place to cut? thanx guys:chevy:
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Re: z'd frame?
You don't have to Z the frame. Invest in a Dropmember...
If you have your heart set on a Z, 2.5" is what you need I think. Should be done at the firewall. |
Re: z'd frame?
if i had the money i would in a heart beat. 2000 i just dont have right now. i was thinking of droping the motor down so i wouldnt have to mess with the fire wall but i dont know just yet. you realy dont know until you do it or know some one who has done it befor. thanx for your guys help:chevy:
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there is absolutely no reason to do a 4" Z. way overkill
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2.5'' i think will lay 3.5 to 4'' to make up for the drp spindels i dont have. so do a 3'' spindel and a 2.5?
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BTW.... The Dropmember is less than 2K last I checked. |
Re: z'd frame?
You'd be better off pancaking your crossmember and puttin in 2.5"-3" drop spindles than Z-ing the frame 3.5"- 4".
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Re: z'd frame?
drop member is 1425 plus these parts which add up to around 3500-3900 many of us cant afford that a z is free but alot of work i will take the z
-Steering linkage (shaft, joints, and idler) -Rack and pinion (power), (manual) -Power steering lines -Air Ride Tech. 'Strong Arms' (tubular control arms are not necessary, but recommended. The Dropmember was designed to be used with Air Ride Technologies' Strong Arms. Stock arms can be used with slight trimming on lower control arm). -Air Bags (Slam Specialties RE7) -Shocks (Monroe) -60-72 6-lug rotor kit (rotors, calipers, lines, bearings, pads, seals, dust caps) -60-72 5-lug rotor kit (rotors, calipers, lines, bearings, pads, seals, dust caps) -2.5" Drop Spindles (63-70) -2.5" Drop Spindles (71-72. must use 'heavy duty' rotors) -2" Drop Spindles (73-87) |
Re: z'd frame?
I aree there is nothing wrong with a hefty Z if your willing to do the work to save a few dollars. Anyone capable of properly Z'ing the frame is just as capable of modifying the other things that will need to be changed without spending >$300 to get them done. I appreciate those who do there own work and don't spend alot of money on fancy aftermarket parts. That stuff is nice, but you can quickly sink more money than you have available into such items. I also prefer to do my own fab work rather than shelling out the money. I say go for it and keep us posted on how it goes.
All of the front end engineering in my own truck is done and I'm back on finish sheetmetal work right now. My total cash layout is a set of bags, used plates and cups, and a used Rack & Pinion from a Camaro I picked up for $50. Arms and spindles are stock and it all but lays frame for next to no cost, just a little work. |
Re: z'd frame?
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A parts house R&P can be had for the same amount or less than the cost of replacing the drag link, tie-rods, & a new box so that's also a wash. You only need pwr steering lines if you upgrade to pwr steering. You would have to do the same if you upgraded to pwr steering w/a 'Z'; again a wash. The DM can be used w/stock arms; no need for ART stuff unless you want them. Brakes will be the same for either combination & another wash. No need for dropped spindles w/the DM unless you want to lay frame w/taller wheel/tire combos. You'll need bags either way as well (if you plan to bag it). So while the DM isn't free, it doesn't run into the atmosphere. A 'Z' is not something you can just snap your fingers for & it happens. If you don't plan for things correctly, the truck could wind up un-safe or unfinished. Seems like if a guy has the skills, a milder 'Z' w/some spindles would be a very good compromise. |
Re: z'd frame?
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if u are rich and love the porter built stuff u can also go for a back half and have 8grand in your ride before u even get started or u could send your trucks to me and for 8 grand i would be happy to lay it out flat for you |
Re: z'd frame?
how will the truck not "lay" with a dropmember? where can you get the same thing for half the price?
I dont think anyone is saying dont to a "z", just dont do 4". Drop spindles dont cost that much. the price will offset all the problems that such a drastic Z will cause. A 2.5" or 3" Z with 2.5" or 3" spindles shuold be more than enough. You are right a Z is not that hard to do. "IF" you have some fabrication skills, its also pretty easy to screw up if you don't. One of the problems is everyone seems to think they have the "skills" but i have seen several that didnt turn out so good. |
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:chevy::chevy:thnax guys your input is helpful, when i did the z on the 68 it wasn't to bad i did 1.5 and a 1.5 body drop it lays pinch weld with no spindels. even thoght the fron ends are the same on the 68 and 86. im going to do the z first and if ineed any more the drop spindels will help. dude if i had the money i would buy the dm but thats alot of cash right now lol. i like to fabricate gives me somthing to do lol. but i just want to be sure be for i do it. with this one i want to do some this a little diffrent. ill probily go with a power rack, i ran into ths problem with the 68 inner tie rods have clearance issues. also when you sole and trying to center the motor and mock up motor mounts by your self its sucks.. i think i only spent like 100 buck to do the 68 summit motir mounts $25 sterring double d 15, ujoints 65. all and all she lays pretty hard lol. the only problem i c is the tranny to trans tunnel clearance. looks like and .5''. the 68 i had to rase that tunnel about 2''. i want to try to advoid that on this one. 2.5 and dropind the motor that muck i might get lucky:):hh: well i have to pull the motor soon. ill keep all you guys up dated, thanx agin for all your input
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Re: z'd frame?
Myself I'd rather do a pancaked crossmember and drop spindles than Z the frame. Less work, You can get another one from a wrecking yard and do it before you take the one out of your truck, and if you screw it up ya get another one and start over. Once you cut your frame if ya screw it up it turns into a big mess. Your either changing frames or your trying to fix the screwed up one which usually winds up resembeling a hack job. The safety factor falls into play also. A pancaked crossmember dosn't risk the strucural integrity of the vehicle nearly as much as cutting the frame. and you can get the same results.
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Re: z'd frame?
[QUOTE=SCOTI;2813701]I know Nate lists this stuff but you'll still need custom steering linkage w/a 'Z' so that's a wash.
A parts house R&P can be had for the same amount or less than the cost of replacing the drag link, tie-rods, & a new box so that's also a wash. You only need pwr steering lines if you upgrade to pwr steering. You would have to do the same if you upgraded to pwr steering w/a 'Z'; again a wash. The DM can be used w/stock arms; no need for ART stuff unless you want them. Brakes will be the same for either combination & another wash. No need for dropped spindles w/the DM unless you want to lay frame w/taller wheel/tire combos. You'll need bags either way as well (if you plan to bag it). So while the DM isn't free, it doesn't run into the atmosphere. A 'Z' is not something you can just snap your fingers for & it happens. If you don't plan for things correctly, the truck could wind up un-safe or unfinished. Seems like if a guy has the skills, a milder 'Z' w/some spindles would be a very good compromise.[/QUOTE good info x2 |
Re: z'd frame?
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Other companies don't sell a 90% bolt-in kit that plants the frame rails. As a comparison, you would have to modify the Fatmans 'bolt-in' kit pretty severe to get it close to the as installed DM (I base this statement on personal experience because a friend installed the MII kit & even after modifiying it still isn't as low). The Fatman kit starts @ $1179 & that does not include the lowers arms; they're an additional $300. So $1479 for a bolt-in kit that won't go as low & uses smaller 11" brakes w/a car pattern. Jim Meyers is the only other 'bolt-in' set-up I've found but they sell a "total kit" which starts @ $3200. Again, it still has the same issues as the Fatmans kit (won't plant the frame rails). Quote:
As for how hard it is to 'Z', not every guy is on the same experience level. Some guys are good @ fabrication, some not so. I would suggest each person to seriously/honestly consider their abilities first. If the total fabrication to complete a 'Z' seems too much, a DM is a great alternative & allows someone w/less experience to sucessfully do it themselves w/o worrying that they might be ruining their truck (which can happen if a 'Z' is not done right). |
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as for the prices the prices that i got were from nate himself i called and thats what he told me it would take i didnt just make them up
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Re: z'd frame?
so pancakein the crossmember? whats involved? i can get and extra crossmember easly. sounds like a better way.. so chop the cross so that it = the dropmembers highth?:chevy:
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Re: z'd frame?
The pancaked crossmember is what gave Nate the idea for the dropmember. It's a 1.5" drop. Heres a link that may help.
http://www.captkaoscustoms.com/chopcross.html |
Re: z'd frame?
I don't understand the points you're trying to make.....
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A 'Z' will require . . ....
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This all started when you questioned the install price on the DM that I posted. I have nothing against doing a 'Z' but you sure seem to have a strong opinion that the the DM is wayyyyyyy overpriced & that you could do the same or better quality work (picking up & delivering the vehicle to boot) for less. I can discuss this all day but don't wish to intrude on the original posters thread any longer. I apologize if any have been offended/annoyed. |
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This is what a 2.5" Z did for me. This is a before and after shot. I am very happy with how it turned out. I kinda wished i went with a 3" because the current x- member is still to low, but i have a 1 3/8" sectioned x-member to install so that will solve the clearance problem.
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Re: z'd frame?
heres my 2cents...
I did a 3" "Z" on my 66, with a 75' front clip. a-arms are about 1/4" away from the ground when it lays out. Benefits, it moves everything up so your steering geometry doesnt change. minus, it moves the engine up so the trans tunnel might need some work.. http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...n/IMG_0576.jpg http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...n/IMG_0574.jpg http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...n/IMG_0584.jpg http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...n/IMG_0579.jpg http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...n/IMG_0577.jpg |
Re: z'd frame?
i am trying to give the guy solid advise and yes i have completed Z's and it was a 4" z exactly what the question was about you have only spoken on the drop member he never asked about a drop member and yes the drop member is way over priced in my opinion but that is just my opinion
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