1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Hey Gang,

This stray truck followed me home yesterday. I was a self-described longbed disliker, but this one got me! Original paint (turned out it was just repainted the same red), little bit of aftermarket bondo, very little cancer.

The Good:


Floors are solid!!
Steps are solid!!
window areas all solid!
Hinge pocket seem solid, need to be cleaned out
One corner not rusted through
Original 283 still there, turns by hand when i turn the fan, oil in the block still
5 new spark plugs in the glove box.

The Bad:

Was hit in the drivers front, everything in that area is tweaked / off a bit
Previous owner resolved the resulting door fitment issues with a hammer until the door opened again

The Interesting:
No less than 20 wasps nests in there
Bench seat was replaced with a seat from a school bus and used like that for years
Rubber bumpers added to the front grill (why?) and the dangling horseshoe gives the truck its name.

Plans:

• 350 / 2004r or th350 depending on whats out there.. UPDATED: Going 5.3 LS
• Flatout Engineering C4 IFS kit - 84-87 C4 suspension with the small brakes
• Some sort of 5 lug rear, disc if I can get one, flipped on the leafs. UPDATED: Going Vette IRS.
• Mustang gas tank out back
• Replace the school bus seat with a recovered stocker/stock inspired.
• 15" chrome steelies and white walls UPDATED: Newer Vette front means 16's...Kinda bummed about that actually.
• Ignore the 5% of rust, scrub the interior a bit with scotchbrite
• New bed wood, maybe black walnut or burnt oak
• Be the envy of suburban husbands everywhere when I arrive at Home Depot to pick up lumber.

Please respond with excellent links for me to get this truck on the road safely! I can't seem to find a thread that journals a simple "get er going" process...(I've learned why-nobody ever stops there)

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

more photos

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Man that looks like a sweet start to a truck! I think you'll find a few threads would love to have been "get her going" and turned into big snowballs of a rebuild. My truck started with a get-er-goin' mantra and I was able to get the 235 up and running. The next step was much more difficult and that was to get her safely to home depot and back for the envy points.

The problem you may find, as I did, is a truck that sits will have lots of issues with cracked and aging rubber and wiring. Check under the dash and in the door for those lovely nests. I had a giant one behind the dash and it covered the steering column. Awesome!

Rust will also be an issue with trying to get things moving like working brakes, parking brake, etc. How does it look under the hood?

Maybe start with tires? Working headlights? lol

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

need close up and high definition pictures of your neighbors scowls when they see it hahahaha

nice score! if I were your neighbor I wouldnt scowl!

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

The bumper guards and scratches on the bumper make me suspect that it was a service truck for a shop, or a service station back when they actually provided service. The rubber covers probably went from top to bottom to keep from scratching the bumper on the car being pushed. We had a section of tire on ours back in the fifties.
As for what to do to it first, the old saying is make it go, make it stop, make it legal.
After that you can mostly pick and choose what you want to do next as far as appearance and comfort items. You have a BBW and the dash hasn't been mutilated in the radio location so that's a good thing.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Nice looking start. It is in alot better shape than my longbed was to start with.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Haha, yeah I'll get some rollers for it tomorrow so it gives the appearance of being a functional vehicle and can be moved.

I figure right off the bat it will need:

Hoses
fluids
brake shoes
anything made of rubber likely replaced
Spark components
new gas tank out back and fuel lines (if im buying a new tank, might as well right?)
Wiring updates/corrections
carb tuned or replaced
PB Blaster bath


and probably 100 more things.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

It would be really cool to trace it back to its roots and find out what it did in its past life!

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Thanks! Yeah, the accident in the front may prove too challenging... I dont want to swap out a bunch of body panels, unless i can find some nice OG red ones.

After driving the Jackalope for 4 years, I'm just spoiled now and insist that my trucks be all original paint and body.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

No new truck photos yet, but I picked up a (supposedly) running 283 from a Chevelle pretty cheap, and its rated up to 220 so thats an easy kick in the pants for Lucky without breaking the bank. It also came with extra 327 heads (which I wont use, anyone in Norcal need 327 heads?), an extra 327 intake, and an Edelbrock 1404 500cfm carb.

Carburetion is a whole new world for me, by the time I got a drivers license everything was fuel injected.

"Doing it right" and having everything machined, hot tanked, etc. is great, but I think I'll be dropping this in as-is and seeing what happens. If it's garbage, that just means more chances to learn!!

Are there any reasons I should try and fabricate side mounts instead of using the front mounts? Is it worth the trouble?

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Took apart the front brakes today and even though the steering wheel turned the wheels with no trouble, I couldn't move the spindle by hand easily. Is this a sign that the kingpins need replacing? I assume that a truck sitting out in a field may need this done anyways.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Replacing the king pins is a good idea if the spindles don't move freely. It will steer rather erratically with them stuck.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Thanks, I'm going to go ahead and order the kingpins to go along with freshening up everything else. Learning so much!!

So, i've been comparing the prices to redo the drums vs. a disc brake upgrade. Here is what I have so far:

Drums- 90
new lines- 25
new wheel cylinders-40
new master-100
shoes-35
roller bearing upgrade- 95
Total- $336

Vs. a disc conversion kit, which is ~$700 from my local shop and includes everything plus a booster.

OR

$400 without the booster/master cylinder locally, and I supply my own master cylinder.

Is the booster necessary/worth it?

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

As all projects do, plans for mine have grown. I decided to go with the Flatout Engineering C4 IFS, and I've gathered the necessary Corvette parts.

I got stalled with the crossmember rivets and planned to burn them out, but I figured out a safer way to deal with these...

Removing Frame Rivets:

1. Cut a + in the rivet head with cutoff wheel on a grinder
2. stick a freshly sharpened cold chisel into some vise grips to keep your hand clear.
3. Beat the hell out of those rivet heads with a 3 pound hammer until they shear off.

Now many people were able to just punch out the remaining half of the rivet..but not me. Lucky wants me to earn everything.

4. Drill a small hole until you pass the depth of the riveted on material.
- Some of the rivets were not easy to reach directly with a drill. I still drilled these out. I drilled a hole at an angle, and started the small pilt hole closer to the edge of the rivet.

5. Using progressively larger drill bits, I drilled out most or all of the rivet from the crossmember/leaf perch. You can tell you have reach the bottom of the hole left from the smaller drill bit because the bit spins faster suddenly.

6. Using a punch clamped in vise grips, beat out the remaining section with the 3 pound hammer.

I got all rivets out this way! Super stoked that I didnt have to cut any out with a torch.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Plans always seem to evolve and grow, as does the cost ha ha :D

looks like a nice truck to start with though.
looking forward to seeing it getting done.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

EVERYONE here (but me) had a helluva time getting factory rivets out. I ground the heads off completely flush then whacked them 3-4 times with a like diameter punch and a BFH. Hard part was seeing the rivet when all the metal was fresh ground.

Grinding the head off from below was a little painful until we covered ourselves head to toe with clothes/towels. But after that, it went fine. (Mostly my brother-in-law did the grinding and I did the whacking from above!:lol:)

I used the big diameter punch in about the middle of the picture.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Spending bits of time here and there to get Lucky ready for the Flatout Engineering C4 IFS Crossmember.

After hours of wire brushing, rivet removal, grinding, etc., I was finally able to trim down the frame to accept the boxing plates. The bottom of the frame flares out to accept the stock crossmember, but it needs to be flush to accept the crossmember.

First I positioned the boxing plate to determine where it will sit to be 90 degrees from the top of the frame.

Next I used scotch tape to lay out a straight line that has a high contrast. Pulling the tape tight ensures I get a clean line to cut on.

Then I used a cut off wheel to remove the extra. I started by making a shallow score along the line, since less cutting meant more control. I could then go over this shallow cut with multiple passes, creating a nice groove for the wheel to follow. Once it was deep enough, I could run the wheel straight through the groove and cut off the piece. I don't own a plasma cutter so I'll have to keep making messes with the cutoff wheel.

Question for anyone who has done this IFS before... should I notch the boxing plate and frame to accept the steering rack notch before or after I marry the plate to the frame? Without a plasma cutter it seems like it would be a huge hassle once its on the truck.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

I also found a 5.3/4l60e/ecu/harness/pedal for $1k and its waiting patiently to cause my budget to increase.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Got back into the garage finally to get the trans cross-member out, clean up the frame some more, and start figuring out where this Flatout C4 cross-member needs to go.

In case anyone is removing the trans cross-member with the cab on, here is how I removed mine:
I used a Reciprocating saw with a long blade to cut out the bulk of the cross-member. Then I trimmed the remaining pieces with the recip saw. I couldnt cut it clean off so I cut through most of it, then used a pry bar to bend them out and off. It wasn't easy. Then I had enough space to cut off the tops of the rivets closer to me with a cut off wheel. More bending and hammering and i could get the remaining pieces to pop off of the rivets, using the cutoff wheel when needed. Then I could easily cut off the rivets for the leaf spring perch and hammer that down and off the frame.


QBRacing is building his ahead of mine and he went with 28.75" from the frame end to wheel center on his 58/59 flatout front install... Does wheel size make a considerable difference in this measurement?
QBRacings build thread

I also need to get these boxing plates figured out, as they seem to box well behind the crossmember and not very far in front... just to box around the c notch that I need for the steering rack will require some trimming most likely. Is there a structural reason for this? Also how do yall add frame paint behind the boxing paint? doing it before might contaminate the welds... doing it after seems like a huge pain.

Crossmember located and tacked in.
 

Update:

Despite this being a weekend job, my double, triple, quadruple checking combined with being intimidated has stretched this out a bit.

At some point I chose to start learning from mistakes again and dove in to get the front suspension set up.

I boxed up the crossmember and trimmed the boxing plate so it could be moved forward and box around the c notch completely. I didn't like how it looks partially boxed, and the boxing plate ending halfway doesn't add as a much strength in my mind.

I got the wrong crossmember from Don at Flatout, but he and I found a solution that was the most cost-effective and would save us time... I find a 96 suspension setup instead of the 86, and he's going to send me a rear kit and shave a few bucks off, so.......

We are going full 96 Vette! I got a front and rear setup for $650, and I need to sell the 86 front now.

Frame is boxed, notched for the steering rack, and crossmember is tacked in.

http://dshillingphoto.net/photos/201...04309small.jpg

Taking one last look to make sure the wheel is where I want it before the crossmember is burned in.

http://dshillingphoto.net/photos/201...03544small.jpg

This photo reminds me that it will eventually look like a truck again!

http://dshillingphoto.net/photos/201...04337small.jpg

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Dave

Looking good, strong work!!!! How did you establish ride height?
Going to be using Flatout C-4 frnt and rear. one my 57 GMC just as soon as I can get my shed done, you know living life has it way of getting in the way.

Keep on keepin on

NC

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

I was also a non long bed lover. I don’t have any references but maybe I have a couple inspirational photographs of long beds. These two Have changed my mind.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Whose blue truck is that Dan? I've see it numerous times, in photos, and it's really nice.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

No idea. I found it on a Google image search and was so impressed by it that I saved it. There is also a dark red or burgundy long bed that is very impressive as well. Somehow I’ve managed to lose that one. I THINK this blue is 60’s Chevrolet Marina blue, but of course there’s no real way to know.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Thanks Nut Case, I've been trying to keep it moving. I really want this truck driveable by next summer!

Ride Height is pretty much set in stone with this kit unless you do more fabrication. I leveled the crossmember with the front 2" lower than the rear.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

While I wait on more parts from Flat Out, I've been trying to keep busy with the truck in some way.

MY FIRST TIME DOING METAL WORK

I found a body hammer in a bunch of tools I bought, and also a tooth from an excavator bucket... so I figured what the heck, I have a pretty crunchy fender. Let's learn some body work!

Those of you who actually know what you're doing may just want to hit the back button right now. I just decided to experiment, have fun, and maybe have a slightly better looking fender.

MY FIRST PATCH PANEL

I also decided I would try and make a patch panel from some sheet metal and it was HARD! Definitely fun to do. I welded it in but the tacks didnt penetrate well......

so I grinded them all off and took my welder off the auto setting, brought the voltage up, wire feed down, and welded the panel from the back this time. MUCH better and I'll follow up with more pictures.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

great work on the patch!

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Thanks! I will definitely need to body work the panel, but thats okay with me, plenty of learning opportunity. This corner of the fender seems to curve inward, and I haven't really figured out how to resolve that yet..

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Heck , yeah. That's how I started, you're on the right track.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Sometimes just getting your hands dirty and getting those first few mistakes over with can go a long way!

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

rewelding the panel helped, but grinding is hard for me to do well on these panels... I cant tell when I've ground the weld level, too far, not far enough.. and getting too agressive is leaving some marks, both with the grinder and hammer.

I can see why guys would just coat the whole damn thing with filler, this is a skill acquired through hours and hours of practice.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

you may try the flap discs for the grinding down part.
sometimes a piece of plywood or mdf cut to the correct contour for the panel is good to have for this type of thing when starting out. that way you can double check as you go to ensure it isn't too bent or not bent enough etc. sheet metal pattern would also work I suppose, whatever you have lots of.
I recommend to cut the hole, then cut the patch to fit big and bent it to shape, then slip it in behind the original spot and mark it fit the shape of the hole. then cut it so there is a bit of a gap between the parts, then tack it in place, checking the contour with your pattern as you go. walk away to allow the whole panel to cool off. come back and spot a few welds between the original ones, like midway. walk away again. each time you come back check to ensure the panel is room temp again. that way it minimizes the warpage. when done use a flap disc to level out the weld, they work on a flatter surface than the usual grinding disc that is made to work on it's edge. again, slowly so things don't heat up and warp. a quick dusting of primer will show you the high spots when you touch it with the disc.
it's always good to have a few other small projects going on when doing this so you are not tempted to go back and "burn it in". less time cussing later when doing the sheet metal prep and bodywork.
what you have there looks pretty good though. some hammer and dolly work and you will be done. if you have a little "innie" dent that has minimal room behind it for a dolly, try to make it an "outie" dent so it is out where you can work it. then use some heat on the high spots (some guys even use a laundry iron because it only touches the high spots) and a wet rag to cool it right after. just enough heat to make the wet area steam, not like cherry red or turning blue or anything like that.
there is a few videos from wray schelin that show using a shrinking disc. same theory, different method. heat the high spot then cool with a damp rag.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Not to bad, I wouldn't kick it. I may take on your design as I start repairing rust on my own ride.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Great build so far. I also live in roseville.
Been debating on the c4 or full IFS lately myself. not alot of vette parts in the norcal area.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Got the IFS parts cleaned up and mocked up one more time with the fender to make sure it looked good, then I went ahead and burned in the crossmember.

http://dshillingphoto.net/photos/luc...fs%20small.jpg


Now I'm on the hunt for a CTS V or F-Body oil pan setup... if anyone has one they'd like to sell, I'm interested! Hoping to buy used and save a few bucks since a used oil pan should perform as well as a new one. If I cant find one in decent time, I'll just order a takeoff from eBay.



I ordered some universal mounts From LSX Innovations HERE after seeing an artice where they were able to get the mount onto the crossmember using a slotted plate. I could have probable made these, but the water cut pieces are clean, precise, and already done.

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Excellent tips, thank you sir!

Feel free! I dont think I'm doing anything worth copying quite yet, but definitely just start getting after it and make some mistakes, its fun!

I have a 84-87 setup for sale since I had to switch to the later year due to a mixup with the crossmember that was shipped to me... You're welcome to stop by the house and check it out and get the forum member price 916-304-2145

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Well I've been apprehensive about welding on the coilover upper mounts, fearing that the coilovers might touch the frame. I should actually order some coilovers, perhaps, so I can check (:

Has anyone used something else besides the Aldan American coilovers that FlatOut sells?

In order to not lose any momentum, I'm trying to stay busy with the truck no matter whats happening. I decided it was time to inspect this $1000 LS engine/tranny that I got, and so far, I'm getting what I paid for:

http://dshillingphoto.net/photos/luc...ey%20small.jpg

This filthy disaster was missing a proper intake manifold gasket and instead had red silicone in its place. Abhorrent.

I cleaned it up to get it ready for a replacement manifold since this one was damaged, and a Fel-Pro gasket. I pulled the valley cover while I was at it, and will replace that gasket as well, since I'm already there, and it's cheap insurance to just do it now.

http://dshillingphoto.net/photos/luc...an%20small.jpg

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

Updates:

I found a replacement Intake Manifold complete with rails, cable TB, injectors, etc. for $40. It also has the original gasket, so reusing that will save me $50 and pay for the manifold essentially.

I swapped out the truck pan for a CTS-V pan, and although that hurt the pocketbook, it fits like a dream. The windage tray is the same full length tray as the 5.3 so at least I saved a couple bucks there.

http://dshillingphoto.net/photos/luc...an%20small.jpg

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

I've been bugging you fine gentlemen on other threads for specific issues and I appreciate the help with getting the mounting location sorted out. I discovered that a light trimming of the trans tunnel top lip allowed me to hit 3 degrees, clear the vette rack, and get the engine tucked in close and low.

I left some of the recessed lip and mounting hole so I can easily attach the trans tunnel cover once modified, and I'll clean that up with a grinder once the engine is out again. It only needed some of the unseen sheet metal trimmed, which I'm very happy about.

http://dshillingphoto.net/photos/luc...ltrimsmall.jpg

Re: 1958 Apache Big Window Loooooong Bed "Lucky"
 

I've also gotten some Trailblazer SS manifolds to help with mounting /steering. Since I'm new to truck building, I wanted all the help I could get in this category. I made a comparison of what the Truck vs. TBSS manifolds look like, side by side.

You can really see in the last image that there is CONSIDERABLY MORE room for steering linkage using the TBSS manifolds. This may even prevent me from needing an additional guide bearing.

TBSS Manifolds used on a TF 1959 apache with a Flatout Engineering C4 crossmember (to help with searching).

http://dshillingphoto.net/photos/luc...uck%20mani.jpg