Restoration insanity
 

I am starting this thread to hopefully get input from others with experience. I am going to list some common 'errors' that people make when restoring vehicles. Of course, it will be riddled with opinions, which is OK.
So, I will start:

1) Buying glue on door seal sets (vs push on). When you include the cost of glue, they are within $5 of each other. At least 80% of folks can't successfully glue them to the cab anyway.

2) Buying all your parts at the start of the project. See facebook and craigslist, "Truck project for sale, includes sheet metal, rubber, wire harness etc". Point is, don't get in over your head.

3) Building your engine first. Why have 5-20k invested in an engine that is going to sit for 2 years while you build the truck?

4) Sheet metal pieces. The aftermarket is flush with components for our trucks. Why replace an inner and outer door bottom when you can buy a whole door shell. I get the fitment arguments people make, but fitment and warpage due to huge lengths of weld seams is just as bad.

5) Depending on a friend or relative. Don't do it. Noone wants to work on your junk more than a day or two. If you can't do it yourself, budget for a professional.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

The audience that you are speaking to is a biased group of folks. I have no way of knowing, but it is my belief that 80 to 90 % of the regular posters on this forum have the skills needed to start a project and see it through. My only problem is that I do not like to restore them. I like to build them, modify them, and then either drive it or move on.
Seeing something shiny while in the middle of a build is what always gets me. I like to have the next project on deck. About the only thing I can add to your list is this.
Study, learn and be able to identify good work and buy the most complete project available. That said, because of today's parts availability. I have waited on simple parts to get mine on the road for a month or more.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

Some solid advice here. When I got my truck it was gonna be a quick 6-12 months to get it running and driving. Well, three years and much scope creep later I finally have a driver quality truck.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I have changed my attack on my next project, maybe cause I'm more patient in my older age, but most of it comes from wisdom due to that old age. Here's my new plan of attack for the project...

In short, take it apart small areas at a time fixing, restoring, and buying the pieces as I go so that shortly after the last part comes off...all the previous parts are ready to go back on.

In long,

Instead of getting real excited and taking the whole thing apart right at the beginning and then scattering it all over the shop, stuffed in to boxes, and piled in buckets...I have been taking pieces off and restoring them as I go, then packaging them up nice for storage. For the items that are too far gone, I add them to the "2 Buy" list, look for good used parts, or buy new. These found or purchased parts are then stored with the re-conditioned parts ready for install. Some things don't make sense to buy and store for the duration of the project (like upholstery and carpet), but other things make sense to buy well ahead of time to avoid all the Out-Of-Stock problems the world is having. I am at a point of the project where the body is off the frame and the chassis is a roller...most all the items that have been removed are ready to go back on. My goal is to get to the point where it's all assembly and nothing else...saving the excitement for the very last without delay due to parts that need to be cleaned up/repaired, missing parts, or back orders. The last item to be sub assembled will be the motor. Once it is complete...the thing should go back together pretty fast.

Wish me luck!

Re: Restoration insanity
 

The term "scope creep" is well suited for the subject of restoration. I do not think that tons of folks start something only to just discover that its too much for them. I believe lots of LIFE events happen in the process which changes outcomes of what people sought out to do.

I am one such of those individuals now changing directives in which what suits my current growing skills and life course.

:chevy:

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I have been wrenching on these for almost 30 years. I do help out my C10 brothers and sisters when asked. I try to give them the best advice from my experiences with these trucks. Restoring vs Regenerate is what I see. I have done a frame off nut and bolt restoration and I have got daily drivers back on the road. The biggest issue most folks face when taking on a project is BUDGET. What I mean is people will have this great vision and do not have the finances to support it. It is the Steak request on a Bologna budget mentality. Some folks have no idea and if they cant do it themselves Labor Rates will smoke that budget. Budget is the first thing I talk to folks about and gets me so irritated when they agree, then come back and start to nickle and dime everything.... This alone is a reason I start to walk away more from folks.

I can address some of your points and there are others that can add or subtract from my points.

1. Door seals. Big pain in the rear. I have yet get a new set of push on seals that did not require lots of time to make them work on a running truck. You are correct on the glue seals.

2. Good points, just have the ability to organize and store your parts if you do pre-buy. Nothing worse than buying something again cause you couldn't find it in that rats nest of parts in your shed.

3. I would tell people to forecast as much as you can. It is really hard today with all the drama we face in supply chain fun. Nothing worse than waiting months after something to get finished cause it has your movement stuck in its tracks.

4. Sheet metal work is painful no matter what. Fitment issues with doors is the number one reason I don't want them. My buddy just spent a ton of $$$ for some reproduction burb doors and he is a very good metal guy. His burb body was very straight and those new doors were just awful. Luckily for him I had a door and it fixed his issue with very little adjustment needed along with a new skin on the passenger door. The latest batch of cab corners are very fun to install along with the rockers. One thing I will say is that the thickness of the panels is getting better.

5. This goes back to my initial point, lack of planning for a budget is going get you sooner or later. Depending on family or friends can only make your relationships get strained one way or another.

Too many folks watch so much TV or view youtube and get the idea that anything is possible. Then they destroy more or put more people at risk with their lack of competence of automotive repair. I have a few examples of horrible shortcuts that were done on a few of my trucks and looks to be the norm now cause folks only see that $$$ they could make on that flip.

I would post more of what I am doing now, but just aint fun trying to resize a hundred pics.

Thoughts?

Smitty

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I started on a restoration of my 1971 Triumph Daytona (that I bought in 1972 when I was 14) about 25 years ago - it’s still in pieces. I would add to the list a few things:

1. DON’T pinch pennies

2. DON’T let perfect be the enemy of good or the enemy of driveable.

3. DON’T have too many projects going simultaneously (my biggest problem).

Re: Restoration insanity
 

#3 is getting me right now....

Smitty

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I got my '67 GMC from a buddy for $350.00. ( $50 less than the receipt for the new windshield I found in the glove box). This was about 20 yrs ago.
He got all inspired by a project I had done on a VW beetle.
( Complete tear down, gobs of new parts, real nice car when I was done, Magazine car some co workers called it).
He got as far as smoking a few doobbies, taking the truck apart, loosing lots of stuff, other things got stolen. Then it sat in his yard with some other " projects" until the City sent him a bylaw letter telling him to clean up his yard.
I dragged it home, it was a shell. I bought a donor " hippy van" my kids called it and had it running & driving in a few months.
I'm of the mindset it's not " where do you start" but " when do you stop" when approaching a vehicle.
You have to be ruthlessly honest with yourself.
What is your skill set?
What is your budget?
Do you have the ambition?
What is your finished product goal.
My truck is all about low budget, summer part time driver, no worry about parking lot door ding level machine.
That was my goal, that's what I got.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

Oh yeah! Same here. We need to start a support group. The too many projects club.

Or as my wife would say. We could call it the WTF is the matter with you club. :lol:

Re: Restoration insanity
 

This thread just reminded me of making a guy mad at me a few years ago. It was a coworker I really didn't know well but he was taking another job and was moving. He had a project motorcycle he wanted to sell and I was known as being a bike guy so someone sent him to me. Here is how our conversation went:

Him: Hey, I am moving and have a bike I'd like to sell.
Me: Cool, what you got?
Him: A 1974 Harley Sportster. I took it all apart to the bare frame a few years ago for a restoration and I never got around to it. Not sure what it's worth though but all the parts are there.
Me: Well, I can tell you I would come pick it up and get it out of your way but I wouldn't pay you much at all over a few hundred bucks.
Him (irritated): Why's that?
Me: Well, to tell you the truth, I am not the end of the rainbow guy but the guy that gets it there. I know what it is going to take and no bike apart that long still has all the parts there in my experience. Not to mention that is not the top year or model Harley. So, it's just not worth that much to me. Perhaps you should spend a weekend putting it back together as a non-runner and put an ad to sell it. You'd get more.
Him: Walked off fuming

Re: Restoration insanity
 

An enthusiastic kid helps.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

That’s about as far as most get before throwing it back on Craigslist.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

Don't bolt $3,000.00 worth of drop suspension to a rotted out frame cut long bed with a $300. 00 junk yard LS and spider web wiring and think it's "Patina" is worth $20,000.00 :lol:

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I'd only add that everyone should do a real budget spreadsheet (including the price of the truck) before you start your project. Then double that number and put the money aside. If this number doesn't scare you or exceed the value of the completed project, then you are ready to start. If you find yourself thinking you can dumpster dive your way into doing it for less, you are statistically likely never to finish. It all adds up. If you have access to a dozen parts trucks rotting into the ground, you already paid upfront. If you don't, you will be nickel and dimed to death. If you aren't typically strong in personal finance, take a second to learn a bit and it will pay you back for the rest of your life.

Also, don't strip it all back to bare metal unless you've done it before. See my point above and call a few paint shops to get some quotes. Every time I see a "$30k+ invested, needs paint and assembly" truck for sale for $20k, I know it will never sell. It's probably worth less than half that. If it was original and worn out with a new engine, it would probably sell for $15k.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

You gave him fine advice - I could triple or quadruple the sale price of mine if I did that…but I’ve had the damn thing so long and went through puberty on the bike without killing myself, and during disassembly I took copious notes and sketches (cell phone cameras didn’t exist then) even to the extent of measuring the head, diameter, length and screw pitch of every bolt and nut, and noting any markings on the head of every bolt….

Re: Restoration insanity
 

Oh yeah, and my wife watching these auctions on TV is making her mad at me. She says, "You need to get these things finished and sold, I want to retire NOW!!"

I see this all the time. A lot of adds on FB and CL for cutting down conversions going on around here.

Smitty

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I don’t love the cut frames either but honestly, who cares? These slammed trucks almost always have the frame cut up to do C notches anyway. Whats two more cuts?

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I made the mistake one time of mentioning to my wife how much my GTO might be worth.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...-still-family/

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990396621018


Now I catch her giving it the side-eye when she thinks I'm not looking.

K

Re: Restoration insanity
 

After 60 years - I am just now coming around on this one.

My dad always had a buddy he could rely on, especially for paint/body work. And it always took forever.

I'm to the point now that I hire it out, so that I can lean on the shop (in good conscious) if things start to slow down.

When I had the red truck painted I ask them for one week to do the cab/front end sheet metal and, about a month later, one week to do the box.

They honored that request. That put the build back in my control and, after starting in May I was done done done by September that same year.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926

K

Re: Restoration insanity
 

This is how I did my tractor.

I did the wheels first, then the front end, then back as far as the bellhousing, then the back.

It took me as long to do the sheetmetal (hood, radiator cover and gas tank) as the whole rest of the tractor.

But it kept me motivated and I got it done.

K

Re: Restoration insanity
 

Make sure you can register it in your respective state BEFORE you invest any money in it.

I see a lot of basket cases getting brought into California. Swapping cab and frame can get you into a pickle with a VIN officer if they care about continuity; mine did.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I get the same with my SWB 71. I told my wife I was going to sell it and she said "No".....I still see the look every now and then....

Smitty

Re: Restoration insanity
 

Great picture. ;)

Re: Restoration insanity
 

Be ok with rust. Just drive it as is.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I think this might be the best piece of advice in this whole thread. If you can't title it all you have is a pile of parts, I don't care how complete it may be.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

My main objective has been to not stray to far from the original view. I broke this rule when I changed to an LS motor and front coilover suspension. Cost more time and money. No more big changes for me. Once I committed to the changes I ordered all the parts. Thankful I did this before the shutdown. Have many parts in hand now that I would be waiting months for if I ordered today. The registration is a big deal. Had to jump through some hoops to get my truck legal here after sitting for many years. Even though I thought it was on non op, California made it tough to get new tags. AAA was my saving grace. They helped a lot.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I am retired and it took me 27 months to complete a truck. Well if you call it complete, lets just say "running and driving." I have a full machine shop and the tools to do most anything but paint and body work. I have a lot of resources outside my shop, like the right guys to go to to get a quality job done without getting taken in the process. After it was "Running and driving" it cost another $550 dollars for a dyno tune. Could have mail ordered it. However, this tune if for my combination and my truck. Runs like it should now it was untenable before the tune. I kept receipts but never added them up. If I was to sell the truck I likely wouldn't be upside down. However, it I counted my labor it would have to sell for six figures and I would still be working for $5 and hour. I can call it my truck my way with my colors and amenities. I don't know of another that has a powder coated 4L60E!
Likely the truck will go to my Grandson. I can't put a price on that?
Daily driver in the background. Guess I like them short!
Cheers.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I just do it, no real thought required. It's just what I do. I've always done it even when I had no one to share in my interest, like here. I don't care about time. This isn't a reality show. I don't mind projects sitting or buildings full of parts. That's how my life has always been, it's all I know. I have a built engine sitting, so what? It's ready to go. For me it's about the process as much as the result, It's not a chore, I enjoy it. If you see me selling an incomplete project it's because I have become physically unable to complete it. I know if I buy parts that I don't end up using I can always sell them later, probably for more than I paid. I enjoy buying parts, the chase is part of the fun. I prefer OEM parts, for whatever reasons. I'd rather repair/restore an OEM part than buy reproduction parts, it's just my preference. Actually, I restore and sell many parts. That's what I do to stay involved when I'm unable to progress on my complete truck projects. I enjoy selling parts at swap meets. It's not just for money. It's about helping others complete their project and the social aspect.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

This is where I am right now with my truck. The engineer in me wouldn't not let me keep a spreadsheet on what I have in the truck. While I didn't go top end on it, I didn't go on the cheap either. Right now I am close to having a very solid driver and that is what I want. Sure, I'd love to have a paint job so slick a gnat couldn't land on it but not at the expense of being able to enjoy it.

I figure I could sell mine for what I have in it or a bit more - minus labor of course. But, this is a hobby of mine. Nobody expects the guy with an $80,000 bass boat to make a profit on his hobby so I don't expect to on mine either. Doing everything myself it took longer than I expected but, as I mentioned before, scope creep got me. I ended up rebuilding the entire suspension and steering, converting to power disc brakes up front, buying a entire new bed box and wood, etc. At times it sat for a good bit waiting on me to get back around to it and at times I thought I'd bitten off more than I needed but in the end I am pleased. Still needs some things finished and tweaks to what I have done but you can start it up and drive it now after it being off the road a total of 15-16 years.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I never expected a hobby to pay for itself. Never a spread sheet here. My involvement with these trucks has been about finding and keeping rust free trucks, and now repairing it. But my '72 K2500 has had rusted outer rockers for over 10 years. I have yet to restore it and that rust has had no affect on my enjoyment of the truck.

On my '67 (forever) built from scratch project I am mostly stalled over doing proper body/paint work. I pretty much have everything I need to complete it once that is done. This project exists because of all the parts I had accumulated, enough to build a truck. The cab I originally bought for another truck in the '90s, that I sold in '04. I still have another cab to build another truck one day. On my drivable trucks I attack mechanicals first, them make it pretty. I guess what we now call patina trucks has been my thing for years. Chrome won't get you home. I enjoy my aged looking trucks just fine. When it comes to what really counts, they always run tip-top. I just want to have a 2wd shortbed hot rod to drive. I am getting older and looking to enjoy what I own, so considering putting it together as a forever project. I like red oxide primer and hot Rod Flatz has that color. It's not expensive, looks like primer, but is actual paint. I drove a red oxide primered car throughout HS. Once I worked a couple years after HS I painted it. I can always paint the truck later. I know it's not the easiest or best way. What I am thinking is have a small amount of my desired end color mixed and cut in all my parts before assembly and finish paint the interior. All my sheet metal is OEM rust free. I'll just paint those parts with their dings red oxide. I can always fix those spots here and there and hit with the paint. The vibe will be a rolling project, just like back in the day before we were doing frame-offs on these trucks, when we were happy with that and enjoyed them just fine

Re: Restoration insanity
 

At one time years ago, once I got one up on it's feet, I adopted a "two week" rule. I had a young family at the time with lots of running. I woul adhere to it by not keeping the vehicle down for more than two weeks for any work or modification. It works surprisingly well, but a frame off or total rebuild is out of the question.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I don't have any kids yet but that will probably change within two years or so. And I always considered that to be the end of all my hobbies.

However I think if I "KISS" I should be able to have a couple cars and kids too. What I can't stand is the thought of my kids growing up with all my sh!t on jackstands, versus riding down the road or going to school in them.

Even if they look rough, at least we can all enjoy them--and this mentality should help keep restorations realistic and projects enjoyable.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

Proud of him.
Self taught tig welder makes fixing these old trucks easier.

Re: Restoration insanity
 

My LB build (low budget) I thought I would have to redo the whole truck ran like crap and had a repaint . Very carefully got the repaint off and almost absolutely no body work . Got it running new carb points and a general tune up went through the brakes . Only major thing I’ve done is rebuild the rear . Still has manual drums all around . I’ve been driving it for a few weeks now and it runs better every day just took the picture at the store. Big ol tree in the way :lol:

Re: Restoration insanity
 

Glue-on seals are a PITA, and they WILL come loose.

Best push-on seals I ever used are Precision Replacement Parts DWP 1112 67. $45 for the pair.https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pqp-dwp-1112-67

Re: Restoration insanity
 

This two week rule is a must unless you already plan on a full restoration, have the shop space, have the skills, have the tools, have the time.

This is why you need a two week rule:

There is a rabbit hole too many fall into. Here is a typical story of a very long prolonged or failed project:

1.They start doing one repair or one rust fix, the next thing they know, the truck is all apart and a full restoration is going on. They work diligently for weeks and months, then realize:
2. They do not have the space, skill, money, time, or tools to complete this huge task. Often all the above.
3. They soon burn out when they hit a critical path, where they have no time, funds, or skill to complete one big task to continue get the project driving again.
4. The burn out becomes an unwilling eyesore and now becomes a psychological hurdle they have to cross and it becomes overwhelming. What was once a task that had to be done next, now is an overwhelming giant hurdle. You take a break.....
5. The project sits for an extended time and becomes a burden just to get started again.
6. Often this drags on for years. Some parts get lost or forgotten where they went. Rising prices make it hard to purchase what you need. The vehicle gets buried in the garage. Now you need 4 hours of cleaning the garage done just to start working on the vehicle. This becomes an excuse.
7. When you do work on it, it often is small piece meal tasks and not on the big critical task that has preventing you from finishing.
8. You get sick of looking at the project as it only reminds you of your failure to complete it or your lack of skills, or the mistakes you already made.
9. You no longer have a recollection of good times with the vehicle, you only connection now is negative. The project is officially stalled.
Time Flies:
10. Then only four things can happen:
1. You get rid of it. Either piecemeal or all at once. usually at the result of a divorce.
2. You find a way to get motivated to work on it again. Maybe you finish, maybe you stall at the next critical path.
3. You finish the car, either by cutting corners, or spending some dough.
4. The car sits in your garage, barn, or shed unfinished until you die, or they take you away. Your widow or kids get it and post
it up on FB Marketplace or craigslist. The poor potential buyers hound your loved ones with questions like: Do you
know where all the pieces are? title? Can you look for the missing hubcap? Can you please look for the tailgate?
Are you sure you didn't see the cam card laying around? It looks like this.....

Re: Restoration insanity
 

I try to do one project at a time which let's me get the truck back on the road in a week or two. In fact, I sometimes miss opportunities to work on or replace Part B when Assembly A is torn apart.

That, plus I have never bought an old car or truck that didn't run and drive. Probably because I know my limits!

Re: Restoration insanity
 

Wow! What a cool story and sweet car! I had no idea it has been in your family from day one. Thank you for sharing!

Re: Restoration insanity
 

This is what I tell all novices and then I tell them "you better listen to me" simply because we live in Kalifornia.