CS130 alt upgrade with Painless Wiring kit

[Brad]

I have a complete Painless Wiring kit in my truck and recently installed a new Vortec engine with the CS130 alternator & serpentine setup. I need to know EXACTLY how to hook up the alternator. I have the aftermarket pigtail with the 3 ends and I know the red wire connects to the post on the back. However, I know there are 2 different methods with the other 2 wires- one hooking up a 50 watt/1 ohm resister in line with the (black wire?) and ending at a 12v ign source; the other using a bulb to excite the alternator using the brown wire. I think I'd like to use one of the stock dash dummy lights or add one in the mix. I'm not an electrical genius by any stretch of the imagination and I'm second guessing myself on how to do this.

Your thoughts?

[Brad]

I should clarify something. I'm second guessing myself because I know I can hook it up wrong and run the truck off the battery and get stranded somewhere and I really don't like doing that! Also, I don't want to hack into my Painless Wiring kit and I'd like to hook up the wire to a dedicated circuit somehow if necessary.

[VetteVet]

This is a copy/paste from a conversion. Your main two wires will be the "S" and "L" wires The "I' terminal is for the light if you have that Or you may have the SFLP pins.

In any case your thoughts on the hookup are not correct. Before I paste in the directions You need to know that the S terminal is the sensing wire that you think connects to the back of the alternator. While this will work it is not the best way to make the connection. The S pin needs to be connected down stream of the alternator /battery circuit so it can sense voltage drop in the positive wiring and do a better job of compensating for that. If you connect it directly to the back of the alternator, then it will sense the alternator output right at the alternator, and will not compensate for the voltage loss from the loads in the circuit.

The wire that excites the alternator will go to the "L" terminal and it will have the resistor in line to the "L" terminal. An 85 ohm 3 watt resistor works well.
I will add a link to illustrate this. These resistor values are varible and most any over 35 ohm 1 watt will work. Do not go too high or the alternator will not turn on.

Link-----http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/zman//Electronics/Alternator01.htm

These two wires are all that you need to make the alternator work except for the larger output wire which you will want to upgrade to an 8 gauge wire and run to a terminal block with fusible links to feed the various circuits in your system.


Copy /paste


Here's a bit more technical electrical information for the CS style alternators.

The 4 pin plug has connections marked S, F, L and P. NOTE: If your alternator as an 'I' in place of the 'L' connection, see the paragraph below.

S = Sense
F = Failure (Indicator)
L = Lamp
P = Pulse

The 'S' connection connects to a remote voltage sense location. This wire connects to the larger gauge wire that was on the stock SI alternator connector (Not the thick battery wire that connects to the rear of the alternator). As it sounds, the alternator uses this connection to sense the remote voltage to determine if it's sagging (more current required), or not (less current required).

The 'F' connection is the failure indicator and is not used for our setup. It normally would go to a alternator failure indicator in some setups (as opposed to an alternator lamp).

The 'L' connection is the lamp connection. The 'lamp' refers to the typical idiot light for an alternator. This connection requires switched (ignition) voltage through between 35 and 350 ohms of resistance. If the alternator sees below 35 ohms of resistance, the CS alternator will fail eventually. For the 4th Gen Monte Carlo SS, the thin brown wire that normally went to the stock SI alternator is switched voltage, but the resistance is too small. I measured mine at 15 ohms to ground. Since this is less than the 35 ohm minimum requirement for the CS alternator, you need to add a resistor in series with this brown wire, to the 'L' lamp connection. I chose a 40 ohm 5 watt resistor. As long as you keep the total resistance between 35 and 350 ohms, you should be ok. If in doubt, measure the resistance of your brown wire to ground with ignition off to determine your car's baseline resistance.

The 'P' connection is not used in our application. It's a pulsed output that connects to a tachometer in some applications.

For alternators that have an 'I' connection in place of the 'L' connection, the wiring requirements are a bit different. See this link for more information.

Depending on the exact model of alternator you purchase, the rear battery connection may not be convenient, or come too close to other engine components. In this case, you can remove the three bolts holding the alternator together to re-clock the rear. Because of the bosses on the altnerator, you will have to separate the two halves. Be forwarned that doing so will cause the alternator brushes and springs to pop out. Putting them back is simple by using a straightened out paperclip, inserted into the whole at the rear of the alternator which allows the brushes to be held in place while the alternator is apart. Once you have the alternator properly clocked, and the three bolts retorqued, simply remove the paperclip from the hole to release the brushes.

This information should apply to all CS style alternators, whether installed in the stock location on the passenger side of the engine, or on the driver's side of the engine in a serpentine belt setup.
_________________________

PaulC PaulC@MonteCarloSS.com - - - - Album Pictures
Original Owner, Custom two-tone T-Toped 86 SS - Webmaster of:

Top
#713811 - 08/14/09 05:52 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Z65_Paul]
Yellowcarloss Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 182
Loc: Jackson, MS
The plug that i have only have wires coming out of the F and L hole. So without the adapter will both wires be connect to the brown wire from the harness with the resistor on the L wire?
_________________________
Chevy 385 430hp 457tq, vortec heads,9.8 comp., ran by stock computer and no emission, Monster built 700r4, Powertrain build 10 bolt (stock looking).

Top
#714183 - 08/15/09 01:40 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Yellowcarloss]
Z65_Paul Online coffeebreak

Administrator
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 12/12/99
Posts: 6519
Loc: El Camino Village, CA
You should only use the L connection, with the appropriate resistor in series to the stock brown wire. Do not connect the F connection to anything.
_________________________

PaulC PaulC@MonteCarloSS.com - - - - Album Pictures
Original Owner, Custom two-tone T-Toped 86 SS - Webmaster of:

Top
#720246 - 09/03/09 03:19 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Z65_Paul]
AndreB Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 571
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
How do you change the pulley on the alternator? I have a serpentine setup....its like 6 grooves. If i find a CS alt with a V-style belt, i wanna be able to change it.
_________________________
85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com

Top
#721780 - 09/08/09 09:32 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Z65_Paul]
THEmean1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/02
Posts: 1575
Loc: Memphis,TN
I had to change my pulleys, but it works fine one the best upgrades I ever done, besides the head lights.
_________________________
85' Monte Carlo SS(Current Project)
Current(402CID-TH350-3.50 9" Detriot Tru-Trac)
Planning(2.5/1.5 drop,502CID,Roll Cage)
-----------------------------------------------
69' C10(Current Project)
Current(355CID-TH350-3.08 Peg)
Planning(4/6 drop,Disc Brake Upgrade, Posi)

Top
#723098 - 09/12/09 05:36 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: BladeOfAnduril27]
84supersport Offline
Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 4685
Loc: Louisville, KY
With the stock bracket I leaft the bolt at the intake loose and tightened up the alternator, then tightened up the bolt. It tweaked the bracket enough that I could get the bolt tight. I also had to "clearance" the groove enough for a larger bolt to fit through. The upper hole is larger and not threaded so you have to find a larger bolt to fit in it.

That stud on the back was also larger on mine. I keep lots or wiring connectors around so I just put a larger one on. I also swapped out to my original v-belt pulley and have not had an issue. It was approximately the same size. I only paid $20 for my alternator but ordered the harness instead of trying to make one.
_________________________
84 Monte SS stolen September 2012. $2500 reward. Vortec headed 350ci, th350, 3:73 limited slip, Autometer gauges, Pro-Stick, 2.5" fiberglass hood.



Matt

Top
#723274 - 09/13/09 10:39 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: 84supersport]
Minotaur15 Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 01/21/01
Posts: 1686
Loc: Neptune NJ
The serpentine and v-belt pulleys should be interchangeable. I just received a new aftermarket CS unit and the dummies sent it with a v-belt when it was spec'd for a serp. The aftermarket units are available with both. I'm pretty sure all OEM units were put on cars after v-belts were totally phased out.
_________________________
Dan - minotaur15@hotmail.com
'86 MMC Road Course Ready

Top
#724373 - 09/17/09 01:50 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Minotaur15]
crazyhorse1983ss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/07
Posts: 498
Loc: morristown,tn
Great write-up! Round up a Chrome fan and pulley. Tape off the holes, shoot a coat of gloss black paint and voila! Looks sharp!
_________________________

Top
#733513 - 10/22/09 09:45 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: crazyhorse1983ss]
tuff57 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 201
Loc: long island, ny
will this work on 4.3

Top
#733646 - 10/23/09 10:36 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: tuff57]
Minotaur15 Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 01/21/01
Posts: 1686
Loc: Neptune NJ
The conversion should be the same in every respect!
_________________________
Dan - minotaur15@hotmail.com
'86 MMC Road Course Ready

Top
#743153 - 11/23/09 10:58 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Minotaur15]
87aeroNAPTOWN Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 150
Loc: INDIANAPOLIS IN
anyone have a link to purchase the alt online. i checked ebay no luck tho

Top
#743944 - 11/26/09 12:31 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: 87aeroNAPTOWN]
Minotaur15 Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 01/21/01
Posts: 1686
Loc: Neptune NJ
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&Category=8710

Beware of the Tuff Stuff alternators if you want it in a timely fashion. Pace thinks they are high quality, but they are basically custom built and it took me at least five weeks to get mine, and another week to get the correct pulley! Other than the delays, it seems like a nice unit...
_________________________
Dan - minotaur15@hotmail.com
'86 MMC Road Course Ready

Top
#743986 - 11/26/09 04:10 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Minotaur15]
87ChooChoo Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1210
Loc: las Vegas, NV
I got mine at Autozone. Should be able tyo get them at Checker, O'reileys, Rockauto, etc. Look up any of the cars listed in the first post of this topic. Got mine for a pontiac transport.
_________________________
85 El Camino Choo Choo with L31 350 Crate, TPI, Serp, TES Headers, GN 200-4r, 3.73 8.5 GN Posi, Acura Buckets, '04 GP Console, Electric Mirrors, Electronic HVAC, and more....
https://sites.google.com/site/darbyselky/home

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Previous Topic

View All Topics Index

Next Topic


Hop to:
Moderator: 85_SS, Dalt10, Gruvin84SS, mannblk, MC87SS, mcss383, MY FYN 79, PB86SS/87LS, Phil87SS, Russ, ss4ever, TPI Monte SS, Z65_Paul

Random Images
614/thumbs/Picture_007.jpg
by StripedSS
500/thumbs/monte_at_lid.jpg
by NYmonteSS
500/thumbs/Monte_carlo_Aero1.jpg
by MaverickMonte85
500/thumbs/Interior21.JPG
by ProchargedMonteSS
500/thumbs/monte91.jpg
by johnnybravo21
Help MonteCarloSS.com
Site Contributors
For The New Server:
clean8485
Aeroadict
mmc427ss
Gary_86SS
GuysMonteSS
Clutch_Grabwell
86aerocoupe87
345HP87SSAC
Ninja85SS
Oemys UltraPower Perf.
Montecarloss8812
sswalt
JAWSS
Spider_carb
zmans84ss
MC87SS
robert87ss
SSLance
RenoReno2
LXXXIV SS
86ssct
MikePEI
Jmonte7892
406Monte
85_3car
Thepcsurgeon
Mick
Crusher
Mikes Montes
BadHabitSS
dcastine
FrankOC
jmonte7892
upflying
Andy85SS
84LS1T56SS
1 Slow SS
ham
trlbzrss
84_zz4
ssmnt408
Miker82
Chevyman540
cwest01
spacemanspif
irene
Frederick Good
sideways
olsey
tb87ss

Site Contributors
in the last Month:
Doc
LARRYMONTE1986
SKIDMARK
joyride
Mike Corrigan
BADD87SS
BlueBoy84
dns87ss
GuysMonteSS
SirRockaby
Dad's SS
Sixtoes1313
MonteCarloSS.com Stickers
Order
MonteCarloSS.com
Stickers
Authorized Vendors
Tell them you saw it
on MonteCarloSS.com!

CustomMonteSSParts.com
Dixie Monte Carlo Depot
GSI Interiors
HRpartsNstuff
Mikes

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by Brad

I should clarify something. I'm second guessing myself because I know I can hook it up wrong and run the truck off the battery and get stranded somewhere and I really don't like doing that! Also, I don't want to hack into my Painless Wiring kit and I'd like to hook up the wire to a dedicated circuit somehow if necessary.

You really need to clarify how you have the alternator wiring in the truck now. Is it the stock system or is it a converted SI style internal regulated model?

This is important in order to wire the CS alternator correctly.

[Brad]

Thanks VetteVet! I'll read it through thoroughly later tonight to make sure I understand it, but to answer your last question I had a 10SI regulator installed previously with the internal regulator.

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by Brad

Thanks VetteVet! I'll read it through thoroughly later tonight to make sure I understand it, but to answer your last question I had a 10SI regulator installed previously with the internal regulator.

There are places that sell the adapter plug with the SI plug on one end and the CS on the other with the resistor included that would make the conversion simple. If your painless harness is for the later trucks without the external regulator wiring in it, it would be simple to wire in the CS to the SI plug. That's how he did it in the link I posted.

.........http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/zma...ternator01.htm

[POPO1984]

Good info
Posted via Mobile Device

[Brad]

I got a resistor yesterday but now I just need to know where to terminate the red wire & the brown wire in my harness w/out cutting into the wires. I want a clean install but theres no wires labled for the alternator.
Posted via Mobile Device

I just found my Painless destruction manual & it has the instructions & where to terminate the wires.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by VetteVet

Before I paste in the directions You need to know that the S terminal is the sensing wire that you think connects to the back of the alternator. While this will work it is not the best way to make the connection. The S pin needs to be connected down stream of the alternator /battery circuit so it can sense voltage drop in the positive wiring and do a better job of compensating for that. If you connect it directly to the back of the alternator, then it will sense the alternator output right at the alternator, and will not compensate for the voltage loss from the loads in the circuit.

So should I connect an 8ga wire directly to the battery from the S terminal or maybe to the ign coil? Would either of these be downstream of the alternator? I'm hoping to finish this tomorrow...

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by Brad

So should I connect an 8ga wire directly to the battery from the S terminal or maybe to the ign coil? Would either of these be downstream of the alternator? I'm hoping to finish this tomorrow...

The "S" terminal on the alternator is the sensing terminal that tell the regulator that the voltage is low in the system and then the regulator will let the "S " terminal wire shunt more field current into the alternator fields for greater output until the regulator reads the correct voltage in the circuit, which is about 12.5 to 14 .5 to keep the battery fully charged and to operate the accessories at full efficiency. This wire only needs to be 12 gauge and You should already have it in the harness for the older SI alternator. It was originally the blue wire from the external regulator and it mated with the red wire on the external regulator when more voltage was needed in the alternator fields.

Now that you have installed the painless harness I cannot say how it picks up the alternator feeds and tees into the battery feed wire to charge the battery. In the original truck harness the "S" wire was actually the ""F" wire terminal in the alternator and in the conversion to the SI internal regulated alternator, it was connected to the no. 2 terminal.

Now you can cheat and just loop the S terminal wire around to the large terminal on the back of the alternator like they do in most conversions and it will charge but the remote sensing voltage feature will be eliminated from the charging system.

On to you question in the quote above which you probably have figured out by now. The 8 gauge wire is the alternator main output wire that provides the voltage for the accessories and to charge the battery. In the original system it ran from the back of the alternator as a 12 gauge wire and teed into the harness with the red wire from the voltage regulator and the red wire from the passenger fender junction bolt near the battery. It was connected to the positive post of the battery by a short wire with a fusible link inside for short to ground protection.

So you have these three red wires connected together and also connected with them was the cab feed wire, which runs to the firewall block and was the only power feed to the cab for the ignition switch the light switch and the fuse panel with a short feed to the horn relay. What I recommend is to run the 8 gauge power wire to a junction block or relay panel with fuses and circuits for each of your powered accessories , cooling fans, ac compressor, compressors for bags. etc.

Here are a couple of diagrams to illustrate what I have written and if you follow the first one you can see how the original wires run and in the second you can see a junction block with fusible links to feed the truck accessories.



If you start at the alternator you can see how the large red wire feeds the tee from the battery and the regulator and how the cab feed wire runs to the firewall block. Now in the conversion you can eliminate the blue and white wires from the original alternator and run the S terminal and the alternator large wire straight to the tee or better to the junction block or relay panel. You will still have to connect them with the feed wire from the battery which is labeled "SHUNT" in the first diagram. The circked fuses are for the battery gauge wires to protect the gauge and it is a common cause for the gauge not to work when one of them is blown.



Now I can see everyone asking, Why can't we just run everything to the battery or to the large post on the starter solenoid. The answer is that if you have the gauge panel in the dash and not the idiot light dash and you want the battery gauge to work, You have to wire the alternator and the positive battery feed on opposite ends of the shunt wire shown in the diagram. Also fusing the wiring becomes a problem unless all the circuits off the starter have fusible links in them. The mid year 70s trucks actually did wire them this way but they converted to a voltmeter.

But back to the problem at hand. On to the brown wire in your quote. It is the alternator exciter wire that "turns on" the alternator when the engine is started. It leaves the key switch as a resistance wire on the trucks with gauge dashes and leaves the dash panel charging light on the idiot light dashes and goes through the firewall block to the external regulator at the no 4 terminal on the regulator. It is a 16 gauge brown wire to the regulator and when the regulator sends voltage to the alternator the brown wire and the white wire are connected by points inside the regulator and feed the original alternator at the R terminal.


In the SI internal alternator conversion the brown wire and the white wire are jumpered together as is the red wire and the blue wire and they feed the internal SI alternator with the brown/white wire going to terminal 1 and the red/blue wire going to terminal 2. At this point the external regulator is bypassed and can be removed from the truck, or left installed as desired.

This diagram shows how to do that for a quick and easy conversion to the SI internal regulated alternator.



It is also possible to run the brown wire all the way from the firewall block to the alternator no 1 terminal on The SI conversion and the red/blue wire can be run from the tee to the SI alternator no.2 terminal and the regulator and it's wiring can be eliminated for a cleaner look. This is how I did mine.




OK now all this brings us to the CS conversion. We have run the wiring to the alternator for the SI conversion and now we have decided to upgrade to a higher amperage alternator like the CS 144 .

The first thing we have to do is install a higher ohm and wattage resistor to the alternator exciter terminal because the 10 ohms of the original alternator that we got from the key switch resistance wire or the idiot light bulb is not enough to protect the regulator circuits in the CS alternators. So we have to add a resistor in the brown wire and it will connect to the L terminal on the CS alternator. The red wire for the SI alternator no 2 terminal can be directly connected to the S terminal and the large feed wire from the back of the alternator will be run to the junction block or relay fuse panel. The connector plugs have to be adapted to convert from the SI style plug to the CS style plug as shown in the link I posted in a previous post.

In their manual Painless shows the resistor to be an 85 ohm 5 watt resistor but any thing over 35 ohm and 3watt up to 300 ohm should work. Don;t go too high as it may restrict the regulator input signal and cause the alternator not to output enough volts and amps.

[Brad]

I finally got this all figured out a few weeks ago after reading this a few times, along with the Painless diagram, and thinking about it over several nights. It's running great and voltage is holding steady at around 14.3-14.6 while running down the highway. (I have a cool plug in voltage meter that goes into the cigarette lighter.)

I discovered that the exciter wire wasn't hooked up to the fuse box and, after tracing wires behind the firewall found the spot where it was supposed to go. I don't know how it was all hooked up before, but it worked then?!? Anyway, it's running great so thanks again VetteVet.

[VetteVet]

My pleasure glad to help.

[BigrobDog]

Originally Posted by VetteVet

My pleasure glad to help.

can u help me to? have tbi engine 90 suburban 350 and was wondering how to wire up alternator to 72 , 90 alternator has 2 wires coming out of of plug do these hook to wire 4 i followed the link down below. but not sure if any thing goes to f wire, the brown is the l on 90 alter but my s was not labeled an s , this is the orange one shown in pic , dont remember what it was labeled but wasnt an s like the link. http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps9c5035cd.jpg

[VetteVet]

If you look at the regulator in your picture you can see the plug and the wire colors looking down from the top. The blue wire is the field wire for the stock alternator and it connects to the 3rd wire down inside the regulator when the points inside the regulator close.These two wires will be connected together or jumpered and become the sensor wire that goes to the 90 alternator to the
s terminal. It is usually the bigger terminal in the alternator and will be the second in the row after the F terminal. F S L P. The other style is labeled P L I S
but I doubt you have that one.

Now you know that the old red wire from the external voltage regulator becomes the blue wire and then it is connected to the S terminal on the newer alternator.

The white wire which is the second wire down in the external voltage regulator plug is the exciter wire for the old stock alternator and it went to the F terminal on the original stock alternator. You will jump the white wire with the fourth wire down which is a brown wire that comes from the cab. It is the same wire that comes from the alternator charging light on the idiot light dashes or it comes from the ignition switch on the full gauge dashes.

When you jump these two wires together it goes like this , the brown wire becomes the white wire and then it goes to the 90 alternator to the L terminal. The only other thing you will need to do is to solder in a resistor in the L wire before you connect it to the L terminal. You can either solder it to the Plug from the CS alternator if you kept it or you can get an adapter plug from the auto parts store. The original plug was a small square gray plug with the blue and the white wires in it and it plugged into the back of the stock alternator.

Here is the original plug



Here is the pins on your new alternator



Here is the plug for your alternator which you should have kept



Here is your picture with the external regulator eliminated from the vehicle.



notice it shows the resistor in the L wire. This resistor can be any value between 35ohms and 300 ohms and from 3 watts to 5 watts. 85 ohms 5 watts is what Painless wiring recommends.

[BigrobDog]

Originally Posted by VetteVet

If you look at the regulator in your picture you can see the plug and the wire colors looking down from the top. The blue wire is the field wire for the stock alternator and it connects to the 3rd wire down inside the regulator when the points inside the regulator close.These two wires will be connected together or jumpered and become the sensor wire that goes to the 90 alternator to the
s terminal. It is usually the bigger terminal in the alternator and will be the second in the row after the F terminal. F S L P. The other style is labeled P L I S
but I doubt you have that one.

Now you know that the old red wire from the external voltage regulator becomes the blue wire and then it is connected to the S terminal on the newer alternator.

The white wire which is the second wire down in the external voltage regulator plug is the exciter wire for the old stock alternator and it went to the F terminal on the original stock alternator. You will jump the white wire with the fourth wire down which is a brown wire that comes from the cab. It is the same wire that comes from the alternator charging light on the idiot light dashes or it comes from the ignition switch on the full gauge dashes.

When you jump these two wires together it goes like this , the brown wire becomes the white wire and then it goes to the 90 alternator to the L terminal. The only other thing you will need to do is to solder in a resistor in the L wire before you connect it to the L terminal. You can either solder it to the Plug from the CS alternator if you kept it or you can get an adapter plug from the auto parts store. The original plug was a small square gray plug with the blue and the white wires in it and it plugged into the back of the stock alternator.

Here is the original plug

Attachment 1084514

Here is the pins on your new alternator

Attachment 1084515

Here is the plug for your alternator which you should have kept

Attachment 1084516

Here is your picture with the external regulator eliminated from the vehicle.

Attachment 1084518

notice it shows the resistor in the L wire. This resistor can be any value between 35ohms and 300 ohms and from 3 watts to 5 watts. 85 ohms 5 watts is what Painless wiring recommends.

yes i did keep that plug but what im saying is that i only have 2 wires coming off 90 alternator. 1 is f/i the other is L . I have wired in the resistor to the L and connected it to the brown wire on external regulator plug. but im not sure were the f/i wire goes. and what wires need to be jumped on the external plug . and what do i do with the old wires blue and white and red wires that were hooked to the old 72 alternator do i cut theses off are will they be used

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by BigrobDog

yes i did keep that plug but what im saying is that i only have 2 wires coming off 90 alternator. 1 is f/i the other is L . I have wired in the resistor to the L and connected it to the brown wire on external regulator plug. but I'm not sure were the f/i wire goes. and what wires need to be jumped on the external plug . and what do i do with the old wires blue and white and red wires that were hooked to the old 72 alternator do i cut theses off are will they be used

The F/I terminal is only used for the 90 suburban to tell the computer that the alternator is charging. You only need the S and L connections.

The red wire on the old regulator plug is a great place to run the S terminal red wire to. The blue and white wires are dead ends now, so you can remove them, or tape them off if you want to ever restore the old system. I mentioned jumping the brown/white and the blue/red wires on the old regulator plug only if you were going to keep them but you don't need to do that if you have already run the L wire to the brown wire on the plug. Now you can just run the S wire to the red wire on the old plug and you're set.

Go back and read this whole thread and it explains the conversion pretty well.

[BigrobDog]

Originally Posted by VetteVet

The F/I terminal is only used for the 90 suburban to tell the computer that the alternator is charging. You only need the S and L connections.

The red wire on the old regulator plug is a great place to run the S terminal red wire to. The blue and white wires are dead ends now, so you can remove them, or tape them off if you want to ever restore the old system. I mentioned jumping the brown/white and the blue/red wires on the old regulator plug only if you were going to keep them but you don't need to do that if you have already run the L wire to the brown wire on the plug. Now you can just run the S wire to the red wire on the old plug and you're set.

Go back and read this whole thread and it explains the conversion pretty well.

I dont have an s wire on my plug, just a L and f/i

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by BigrobDog

I dont have an s wire on my plug, just a L and f/i

It appears that you have a computer controlled alternator that uses the F/I terminal to adjust the voltage output of the alternator. You cannot use the F/I
terminal without a computer. You should still have the S terminal in the alternator however, and if you can get a plug to fit it like the one I posted, then you can use the S terminal to control the alternator output. I thought all the CS style alternators used the S terminals. Especially the older ones. Look in side the alternator where the plug goes and see if you see one of the pins that is larger than the others. This will be the S terminal. Some of them have terminals that are all the same size so it may be difficult to identify the S terminal unless it is marked on the alternator. There are only two types that I know of though and they are P L I S and F S L P.

Here is a copy paste from the internet that is a bit technical but it explains what I have said.


Installing CS-Series Alternators…

Always disconnect the Negative Battery Cable before doing anything!
Install and secure the alternator with the mounting hardware
Attach the BAT terminal before connecting the PLI/FS voltage regulator connector
Attach the PLI/FS voltage regulator connector
Insure belts are tensioned properly and there is no interference with the alternators terminals
Connect the Negative Battery Cable.

10. The CS terminals are designated as follows:

P-Terminal: The Pulse/Phase terminal can provide a 12V square wave to determine alternator speed, used by some Electronic Control Modules or vehicle computers. Connects to the stator. Some ICU’s monitor this signal and adjust engine parameters accordingly.

L-Terminal: This terminal is connected to the “Low” side of the warning lamp, with the lamp’s “High” side being fed by the ignition circuit. Some regulators require a 35-ohm resistance inline with this circuit if no lamp is used otherwise alternator damage may ensue. Some applications have a resistor connected in parallel to the lamp in case the lamp bulb opens up and burns out. The resistor will be there to provide a path for current and voltage. Some vehicles supply a 5Vdc reference to this terminal from their ECU or Computer; other vehicles don’t, so be aware of the various models of regulators. Other regulators may be tested by application of a 50-Ohm pull-up resistor to connect the L-Terminal to the 12Vdc source, I believe that any resistance between 35 Ohms (5-Watt resistor) and 500 Ohms (1/2 Watt resistor) can be used safely.

F/I-terminal: has several duties depending on the specific regulator, some regulators have a resistor that is internally connected between the Field and Lamp terminal. Other regulators use the F/I terminal to provide field duty cycle information to the vehicles Electronic Control Module or computer. These regulators are not interchangeable, but for our Jeeps, it hardly matters. For ECM related vehicles it can be of paramount importance. If the alternator that is selected comes from a vehicle that only uses the I-Terminal then the wiring may simply require a wire from an ignition source in order for the alternator to operate correctly.


S-terminal: This is a heavier gauge terminal spade lug that is connected to the battery. This terminal is the “Sense” circuit and monitors battery charge. The S-terminal on the CS-130 regulator is larger than the other three terminals.

The CS-130D Alternators have the following connections…NOTE: All of the Terminals on the CS-130D regulators are the same size.

P-Terminal: Provides a 12Vdc square wave as in the CS-130 application.

F/I-Terminal: It gets a bit tricky here, as some applications do not incorporate a lamp circuit. In vehicle applications of the “no lamp” kind, this terminal is connected to the Ignition Switch, and an internal resistor is used to limit current and voltage. Other regulators use this terminal as an output and refer to this pin as a Field Terminal, as such, it provides an output that is proportional to the field duty cycle of the alternator to an a vehicles ECM. The ECM now has an input to sense alternator loading and engine loading, and can increase/decrease engine speed accordingly. Here is an important consideration, since the regulators on CS-130D type alternators have these two different types of regulators (F-Type or I-Type) they cannot be interchanged. I-Type regulators use the F/I-Terminal as an input and this can simply be an ignition source 12Vdc voltage that the alternator uses; F-Type regulators use the F/I-Terminal as an output (this ion is a signal that is provided to the vehicle computer and the computer uses it to monitor the field intensity of the alternator as an input. If you supply a 12Vdc signal to this input, you may very well ruin the alternators regulator.

L-Terminal: This is the lamp terminal and operates in the same manner as the CS-130 lamp circuit above. It is of interest to note that some applications use the ECM to send the L-Terminal a signal (5Vdc reference), and the F-Terminal responds with a signal sent to the ECM, in this application the ECM and the Regulator form a “closed loop” to control engine loading and alternator output.

S-Terminal: This is the “Sense” terminal and is connected to the battery. It senses the voltage level of the battery and feeds the regulator circuit this reference so that the regulator can adjust the Pulse Width Modulation to control the alternators output. The S-terminal on the CS-130D regulator is the same size as the other three terminals, unlike that of the CS-130.

Since these CS-series regulators are now essentially an electronic computer chip, so always disconnect the battery before servicing, and do not EVER remove the battery cable when the engine is running. If you simply must do this, you may have just destroyed the regulator’s computer chip. You must really begin to think of these alternators as computers, and treat them with the respect that you might a laptop computer.

CS-Series alternators use diodes within the rectifier plate known as avalanche diodes. Original equipment designs use avalanche diodes in both positive and negative plates with a forward voltage of 0.9V @ 100 Amps and an avalanche voltage of less than 40 volts, in the better-designed regulator/rectifier units.

There is an up and a down side to using these devices. On the up side, they prevent damage and surges, current spikes, and such from reaching sensitive electronic equipment inside the cab and under the hood.

On the down side, due to the nature of their operation, their lifespan is not as long as the earlier diode trio’s used in 10/12-SI alternators. Still, many years of service can be expected, just not decades as in earlier alternators, I believe that the service life of the CS-series alternators is somewhere around 80,000 to 100,000 miles depending upon specific model number (CS-121, CS-130, CS-130D and CS-144.

[Snowbound]

Vet,
I'm doing the serpentine swap on my '65. The donor truck only had the L wire on the harness connector. I checked many trucks at the yard today and they were all that way. All early to late '90s Chevy trucks.

If it is essential to have the S and L wire, I have more hunting to do.

Thanks,
Brian
Posted via Mobile Device

[BigrobDog]

Originally Posted by Snowbound

Vet,
I'm doing the serpentine swap on my '65. The donor truck only had the L wire on the harness connector. I checked many trucks at the yard today and they were all that way. All early to late '90s Chevy trucks.

If it is essential to have the S and L wire, I have more hunting to do.

Thanks,
Brian
Posted via Mobile Device

all u need is the l wire like in the digram. with the resistor . that is all I have

[nightmare]

I just bought an alternator plug off of eBay for $10.90 with free shipping. Got it 2 days later too. Had all 4 wires. Just look up cs144, and it should come up.
Posted via Mobile Device

[VetteVet]

Hey guys I am looking for some information on these L terminal only alternators and so far I haven't found the technical explanation. I am guessing that the alternator internal regulator is sensing the voltage drop much like the older one-wires do.

[BigrobDog]

Originally Posted by BigrobDog

all u need is the l wire like in the digram. with the resistor . that is all I have

u just run the l like the diagram and make your own s wire coming off the back of main power of alternator,

[starterman99]

The cs130 alternator will sense voltage internally so all that is needed is L terminal hooked up to light or resisted ignition circuit.no need for S wire circuit.

[Snowbound]

Originally Posted by starterman99

The cs130 alternator will sense voltage internally so all that is needed is L terminal hooked up to light or resisted ignition circuit.no need for S wire circuit.

Cool. I have an idiot light dash now, but also have a factory tach cluster I might use, so I bought a 5 watt 80 ohm resistor yesterday.

Thanks!
Brian
Posted via Mobile Device