Educate me a little on performance! Warning: Long post

[Crank]

Hey, I know I'm not working on a '67-72 anymore, so forgive me please, but I knew this forum would get more views! Now I've worked on many a smallblocks, never necessarily in depth, like troubleshooting, for the most part, whenever I've bought a truck that sat for 5-11 years(which I have) I always just threw a tune up at it, some fuel a hot spark and off she went, But I've never had enough money to put headers or a cam or anything like that. Now that I'm in the Marine Corps, I got a decent check coming every month, and after I pay off a daggon ring I bought for my girl, I'm gonna try to throw some performance parts at an '86 GMC I bought off a board member, but what I'm looking to find out is what are really good things to buy for making power!!!!!!
I'm looking at something between shortie headers or long tubes? I know long tubes hand down really low, and I dont like that, just cuz I like ground clearance, even if the truck aint gonna be sitting 2 inches off the deck. Now which headers are better for a truck for performance? I'd like to tear ass in this little truck, so that is my intention, but I dont wanna go too radical as to kill me in gas mileage!
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=183892
This is the truck I'm starting with, so it'll need new manifolds because it's using a '73 motor and the dipstick location is on the wrong side, so why not just buy headers.
I'm also looking to maybe get a cam for it, some people say they like their RV cams, but I have no idea what cam is what, I realize somewhat what life and duration are, but I have no idea what a radical cam is from a mild one, and I believe over a certain lift you've got to upgrade your springs. I dont want that big of a cam, but what about roller, hydraulic and flat tappet? What are the difference, advantages and disadvantages to each? Someone please just give me a rundown on how I could build a little bit of power with this truck! Thanks fellas
PFC Pierson, Brandon L. USMC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or just Brandon

[Igotachevyor2]

here is a few of the specs from my motor in my 58 apache
i put some info in the bottom about the cam i realy like this cam
it has a good sound at idle and plenty of low to mid range torque
i would strongly recomend it for a driver or a weekend warrior
you will need a stall converter according to the manufacturer
but as with any modification or upgrade all the components
have to work together to get the best performance try to match
your carb, intake,cam,headers etc. to the same power, rpm range

im sure you will get plenty of replies to this post telling you
better info than me so good luck on your project you can click
the link in my signature and see pics of the engine, headers etc.






350 4 bolt motor bore .060
World Products Sportsman-II Heads
Elderbrock Performer Air Gap Intake
Hooker Headers
Holley carb
Cloyes noisy gear set
Crane Cams Energizer 274 HO6
Electric Fan
K&N Air Filter

here is the info off the cam card for mine

Part Number: 10017 Grind Number: 274 HO6
Engine Identification:
Start Yr. End Yr. Make Cyl Description
1957 1987 CHEVROLET 8
PERFORMANCE USAGE, GOOD LOW AND
MID-RANGE TORQUE AND HP, BRACKET RACING; STREET, ETC.,
AUTO TRANS W/2500+ CONVERTER,
8.75 TO 10.0 COMPRESSION RATIO ADVISED.
BASIC RPM 2200-5200
Engine Size Configuration
262-400 C.I. V

Valve Setting: Intake .000 Exhaust .000 HOT

Lift: Intake @Cam 300 @Valve 450 All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
Exhaust @ Cam 300 @Valve 450
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.50

Cam Timing: TAPPET @---
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake --- --- 274 °
Exhaust --- --- 274 °

Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 1800
Maximum RPM 5400
Valve Float 6000

[Psycho71]

It really all depends on what you want to do with the truck. If it's going to be towing and playing in general Build it for torque. Low off-idle to 5000 rpm range (up to 268 adv. dur.). IMHO, you should put in a moderate Hydraulic lift cam. If you want to start attacking Stangs and the other local street fare, you'll need a more moderate cam (maybe a big Hyd, or Hyd.Roller). These cams produce HP at a higher rpm range, 2200-6500 rpm, and thus need high quality valve train components (which never hurt in any case). But cost more $$$. A solid lift cam requires periodic setting of valve lash and is not good if you want to set it, and forget it.

One thing to know about cams and your truck. You have many vaccum operated accecories. The "bigger" the cam, the less vaccum they will produce at low rpm. An RV or Towing cam will not be a problem, but you don't want to stuff a 300+ duration x 500+ lift Hyd. cam in there for daily driving. This is the reason to go to a Hyd. Roller or more elaborate set-up that can take advantage of more aggressive lobe profiles.

You could do what most here have done, and myself so far. Put an aluminum dual plane intake (edlebrock performer, or performer air gap if money allows), a good Q-jet, Holley, or Edlebrock carb (I run a Holley, but opinions will vary), and headers. Money spent or saved on Headers IS relative as to what you can expect. As alway there are alot of people who have great luck out of the low-price headers out there. I have no luck at all, with anything, so that means I have problems with anything that doesn't cost more. You'll soon discover how your luck runs in this area. Cheap headers, for me, are a constant gasket nightmare. I spent the extra money, after my cheapies blew a hole in a tube, and bought a set of Hooker Comps. The don't hang very low, and are long tube. The exhaust guy actually had to off-set to get under & around the cross member. If you want top of the line, get a set of Thorleys. I don't think anyone who uses them will tell you not to. But unless your changing the cam, Headers aren't a big HP gainer on an otherwise stock motor.

The motor Igotachevyor2 has in his truck would be a great motor that doesn't brake the bank to build. He does have some moderately priced heads on his motor, but I have already picked out the very same heads for my motor upgrade next summer. So they can't be bad, right?

I'm sure others will chime in here shortly with all kinds of good things to do as well. Also call Jegs and Summit and get catalogs. These are great for dreaming up motors to build. But you can see on 2-3 pages what different cams are capable of doing. If you spend enough time going back and forth you will learn what parts GO with other parts, and what is a TOTAL mismatch.

Good Luck,
Jay

[PanelDeland]

If you plan on really getting into a performance build and want good bang for your buck you could always look to someone like Edelbrock.They (and I'm sure others) offer matched components.You can get a cam,manifold and carb already matched for the power level you are looking for.If you plan what you want you could do this then later add a set of good heads and have even more power.Most cam companies can help you pick a cam to go with any combo you want to use.Be aware that they will ask all kinds of questions about your combo.They will want to know engine,heads,intake tranny,stall,rear end gear and power accesories at the very least.
Good luck have fun and thanks for your service to our great country.

[Crank]

Well it already has a Performer on it and a 1406 carb I believe, So that's good to go, what are a good set of headers? What is the difference between 1 1/2" and 1 7/8" primaries, is there someone that makes a medium length header and I've heard like the shorties are good for something and longtubes good for something else, like their purposes? And the purpose of this truck will be a street driven daily driver that wont tow much, that's what my CC is gonna be for, but i may wanna jump the **** outta a mustang every now and then, i occasionally have to pull the occasional car outta the ditch! Thanks
Brandon

[Igotachevyor2]

Originally Posted by Crank

Well it already has a Performer on it and a 1406 carb I believe, So that's good to go, what are a good set of headers? What is the difference between 1 1/2" and 1 7/8" primaries, is there someone that makes a medium length header and I've heard like the shorties are good for something and longtubes good for something else, like their purposes? And the purpose of this truck will be a street driven daily driver that wont tow much, that's what my CC is gonna be for, but i may wanna jump the **** outta a mustang every now and then, i occasionally have to pull the occasional car outta the ditch! Thanks
Brandon

here is the only pic i could find of the clearance with my hooker headers you can see the dont hang they are tight to the crossmember

[Psycho71]

As far as what headers are Good ones. Like I said before, opinions will vary. You will probably get more recommendations for Headman, or Hooker. They are both in the same price range, I bought Hookers. Mine have no ground clearance issues, and the motor sounds and runs better with them than it did with the Flo-techs (cheap). Don't spend extra money on the big primary tubes or 3" collectors unless you are going to be building a huge smallbock. You will see no benefit, and probably loose some of that bottom end torque you are looking for. Try and stay with a 2.5" collector, and most of these will have smaller primary tubes. The theory is... the more back pressure on the exhaust (to a point) the better the Low end torque. The less back pressure, the better High end torque. Oh, and try gutting the catalytic converter if it has one. That will free up a few ponies too. But you didn't here that from me! Probably not a good idea if they use the sniffer for inspections where you live.

In spite of my dislike for them I will admit...Mustangs are harder to outrun in a truck than one might think. Especially if they have ANY work done to them. I am going to be looking to build a mustang killer when I do my drivetrain upgrade. I am going to build a 383 stroker w/6" H-Beam rods, 9.5- 10:1 comp. forged pistons (pump gas), Hyd. roller cam, 200cc 2.02"x1.60" Big Chamber Heads, RPM Air gap Intake, Holley Vac. Secondary 670, 2200-2500 stall converter, th350 or 700r4 tranny, 3:73 or 4:10 gears (respectively) with P-track unit, and don't forget the nitrous. This should be a driveable motor that will allow the use of A/C and other acc., will have moderate low end and good medium-high range torque. And with the nitrous, should outrun most anything that is factory to moderately modified on the street. I'm GUESSING, with this combo I MIGHT run some low 8's, or high 7's in the 1/8 mile (on 200hp squeeze) in my longbed. May be better, maybe worse, but I'm gonna find out.

Some here might be able to tell you exactly what is required in these trucks to outrun stangs and such. I'm sure just about every combination of parts conceivable has been tried by the people here. I haven't seen any bad advice here yet. And hope I haven't given any. It's hard to tell someone "this is what YOU need" when it comes to building motors. It is for me anyway. Everyone is different, and no two motors run the same for two different people. There are so many variables involved. Just make educated decisions, and don't get sucked into buying stuff that you don't need.


Keep us posted,
Jay

[rage'nrat638]

sounds like you need a BIG BLOCK

[Psycho71]

That would probably work too!

[Crank]

Haha. Psycho sounds like some good advice on the headers, and I guess I'll just have to try my luck with some other stuff, like cams and whatnot. Yea, when I get the truck, I'm assuming it either has 1 or 2 cats, I know it does have flowmasters after the cat, however many it has, So I may just install some headers and throw true duals back to what is already there flowmaster wise! REMOVE CATS, hehe, no sniffer test and the truck will basically be a daily driver/farm truck when I'm home.
Also, what are the concerns for headers when it comes to starters? I've heard many a folk talk about heat sink and starters dying, what is availablet to cure this problem? Those little prebent heat shields?? Thanks everyone!
RAGE- Tell ya what? If I could afford a big block that'd be nice, but I'm sure I couldnt afford the fuel. Just bought my girl a '00 Accord, with the V6, but it has payments, I figure the money I save on payments, I can spend on a little bit of extra fuel! Lol. Thanks everyone
Brandon