Custom grind camshaft for nearly stock 350

[Cgoldhill]

looking to get the most out of my 350 and cant find anything off the shelf that im excited about so Im goin custom grind.
72 c10, 2wd original 350 with less than a 100k on it. 3:08 posi with a 4 on floor, open air element, warmed over qjet and a dual exhaust. Compression should be right around 8.5:1. Im keeping stock ramhorn manifolds and stock valve springs. Redline is 5000. 295/50/15 on the back for a 26ish inch tall tire.
Looking at .450 inches int/exh with a split duration favoring the exhaust on 108 lsa.

My question is, whats the max exhaust duration recommended at .050 inch of lift for my setup? 215-218? Dont care about advertised duration. My intake will be 8-10* less duration than exhaust. Truck maybe taken to the track a few times a year for fun, otherwise its just my low and hopefully quicker, cruisin C10. Real world experience with a cam close to these specs would be appreciated.

Basically i want an Isky 264 megacam with a split duration and just cant seem to find anything.
Posted via Mobile Device

[67 cst swb]

The cam I really like in a 350 is a Crower 00223 with a 1800-2000 stall convertor and a 3.50 to 3.73 rearend gear.

http://www.crower.com/catalogsearch/...XVBWo1&q=00223

[Cgoldhill]

Thanks for the suggestion. Did you use this cam with stock valve springs and mostly stock motor except for what you have listed?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Fldawg]

If you want a good all around cam mellings puts out what they call a torque cam
part # mtc1
or if can find a 350 horse 327 cam that would be good for your application

[67 cst swb]

Originally Posted by Cgoldhill

Thanks for the suggestion. Did you use this cam with stock valve springs and mostly stock motor except for what you have listed?
Posted via Mobile Device

I usually replace with new valve springs, but you can find a stock diameter spring that is good up to .500 lift pretty cheap and the better head you have the better. But I have used this cam in a stock 350 and it worked great.
remember... the better the "combination" you have, the better things will be.
An awesome cam won't be so awesome if the motor is a worn out 8.2:1 with worn out rings, horrible flowing heads, a worn out timing chain and an out of tune carb.
Cams aren't magic.

[GRX]

By "stock valve springs" I hope you do not mean originals. They do wear out and you will not get the most out of a new cam with weak springs.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by Cgoldhill

looking to get the most out of my 350 and cant find anything off the shelf that im excited about so Im goin custom grind.
72 c10, 2wd original 350 with less than a 100k on it. 3:08 posi with a 4 on floor, open air element, warmed over qjet and a dual exhaust. Compression should be right around 8.5:1. Im keeping stock ramhorn manifolds and stock valve springs. Redline is 5000. 295/50/15 on the back for a 26ish inch tall tire.
Looking at .450 inches int/exh with a split duration favoring the exhaust on 108 lsa.

My question is, whats the max exhaust duration recommended at .050 inch of lift for my setup? 215-218? Dont care about advertised duration. My intake will be 8-10* less duration than exhaust. Truck maybe taken to the track a few times a year for fun, otherwise its just my low and hopefully quicker, cruisin C10. Real world experience with a cam close to these specs would be appreciated.

Basically i want an Isky 264 megacam with a split duration and just cant seem to find anything.
Posted via Mobile Device

Between Melling, Comp, Crower, Lunati, Crane, Isky, Howards, Elgin, Schneider, Engine Power Components, Leineweber, Cammotion and Piper you couldn't find a suitable cam? You live in a VERY strange world, my friend!

[hugger6933]

The comp dual energy cam may be a place to look. They have a pretty big split lift duration with more focus on the exhaust I ran one in a S-10 [I use to build a lot of V-8 S trucks.] and enjoyed it a bunch it was the bigger of the two grinds they make. Thew smaller one of the two sounds like it is right up there alley. Call 1-800-CAM-HELP and ask them what they think would be best with what you have. I am with the above poster out of all the cam designers and makers you still have not found a cam? Call the Comp cam help and they will hook you up I think the Dual energy or the Extreme energy cam may be a good fit. Jim

[Cgoldhill]

Originally Posted by Fitz

Between Melling, Comp, Crower, Lunati, Crane, Isky, Howards, Elgin, Schneider, Engine Power Components, Leineweber, Cammotion and Piper you couldn't find a suitable cam? You live in a VERY strange world, my friend!

Please by all means find a cam matching what im looking for. Ive searched and searched. Its my yearning for a torquey 108 lsa thats making it difficult. I cant find any off the shelf cam with split duration pattern under .460 inches of lift on anything less than 110 lsa. A lunati voodoo 60101 on a 108 lsa with be nice, elgin 1065 or 1785 with a split duration. Ive found tons of cams but after doing research on how each aspect of cam affects engine performance, i feel the 108 better suits the 350, especially in a heavy truck where torque is your friend. Looking for that happy place between decent area under the curve accompanied by some on command peakiness if i wanna lay on it a bit. I understand these are two opposing ideas but I really believe with the right cam specs, a happy median can be achieved.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Cgoldhill]

Im just gonna have to start calling I guess, Ive put in many cam request forms with 3 companies over the last month and none have replied
Posted via Mobile Device

[Cgoldhill]

Ok so comps Xe256h specs are right on the money but I want it on a 108 for some more peak torque and little more chop at idle as a bonus. I understand this will close my powerband up a bit to something 1200-4800. Im not real crazy about hearing the wear and tear on valvetrain that XE's allegedly have but the cam specs seem too mild for it to be a huge concern.i dont see any links on comps page for a custom grind request, think they could make that happen?
Posted via Mobile Device

[GRX]

Sounds to me like you are looking for a narrow power band at lower rpm's. A tight LSA will do that. A similar effect can be achieved by advancing the cam timing as well so bear that in mind when looking at specs.

[Cgoldhill]

Originally Posted by GRX

Sounds to me like you are looking for a narrow power band at lower rpm's. A tight LSA will do that. A similar effect can be achieved by advancing the cam timing as well so bear that in mind when looking at specs.

Yes Ill be shifting at 4500-4800 when I get on it and with a 5000 redline, I am trying to get everything i can out of that rev range.
Posted via Mobile Device

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Cgoldhill

looking to get the most out of my 350 and cant find anything off the shelf that im excited about so Im goin custom grind.
72 c10, 2wd original 350 with less than a 100k on it. 3:08 posi with a 4 on floor, open air element, warmed over qjet and a dual exhaust. Compression should be right around 8.5:1. Im keeping stock ramhorn manifolds and stock valve springs. Redline is 5000. 295/50/15 on the back for a 26ish inch tall tire.
Looking at .450 inches int/exh with a split duration favoring the exhaust on 108 lsa. My question is, whats the max exhaust duration recommended at .050 inch of lift for my setup? 215-218? Dont care about advertised duration. My intake will be 8-10* less duration than exhaust.

Max exhaust duration for your setup with the intake duration being 10 degrees less is around 215 @ .050" lift (205 intake duration). (You have around 8:1 compression on a stock 72 350, regardless they say it's 8.5, that's well-documented and sometimes even less). You need it installed at 108 intake centerline.

For the 108LSA, you will likely need the custom grind. The XE256H is too much cam, IMO. The dyno test here is on an engine with 9.25CR.
http://www.compcams.com/v002/Pages/386/XE256H-10.aspx

If I get time, I'll do a dyno simulation for you. I'm going to say up front without headers, you will be dis-appointed.

[Cgoldhill]

Honestly i cant make much more than 300hp or ill be grenading the saginaw so I figured Id try to go for some nice peaky torque after Ive already rolled into gear. Trying to make as close to 300hp as possible with as much torque as possible is my goal. Why will i be disappointed without headers? With the favored exhaust duration and a nice mandrel bent 2.5 inch h piped dual exhaust, i didnt think id be having any reversion issues but maybe im wrong.
Posted via Mobile Device

[GASoline71]

108 LSA will suck for what you want. Put the LSA up around 112 to 114 and you will still have a rumpity idle and way better vacuum and a wider power curve.

Just searching online isn't really exhausting your resources. All the cam manufacturers can make any cam you want on a custom grind. What you want has already been thunk of by someone else... trust me. So Comp or Lunati or whoever probably already have a grind for it.

Some one mentioned the good ol' "350 hp 327 cam". I've used this grind for many builds. It's just a dang good cam grind. Specs are: GM part number: 3863151, Lifter type: Hyd., Duration @ .050: 221/221, Lift: .447/.447 LSA: 114 Engine: 327 (350HP) L79

Gary

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Cgoldhill

Honestly i cant make much more than 300hp or ill be grenading the saginaw so I figured Id try to go for some nice peaky torque after Ive already rolled into gear. Trying to make as close to 300hp as possible with as much torque as possible is my goal. Why will i be disappointed without headers? With the favored exhaust duration and a nice mandrel bent 2.5 inch h piped dual exhaust, i didnt think id be having any reversion issues but maybe im wrong.
Posted via Mobile Device

Are you running stock Ram's horn manifolds?

[Cgoldhill]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Are you running stock Ram's horn manifolds?

Yes as stated in my original post. Ramhorn style manifolds with the 45 degree dump to the back, not the true vette manifolds with the straight down dump.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Cgoldhill]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

108 LSA will suck for what you want. Put the LSA up around 112 to 114 and you will still have a rumpity idle and way better vacuum and a wider power curve.

Just searching online isn't really exhausting your resources. All the cam manufacturers can make any cam you want on a custom grind. What you want has already been thunk of by someone else... trust me. So Comp or Lunati or whoever probably already have a grind for it.

Some one mentioned the good ol' "350 hp 327 cam". I've used this grind for many builds. It's just a dang good cam grind. Specs are: GM part number: 3863151, Lifter type: Hyd., Duration @ .050: 221/221, Lift: .447/.447 LSA: 114 Engine: 327 (350HP) L79

Gary

Why would a 108 lsa suck? Please back this statement up. Im gonna have to also disagree with ya on a 112 having rumpity idle unless its got tons of duration and overlap, way more than my setup could handle.
Im waiting for ten other people to now post how old and archaic that grind is and how a modern lobe design will run circles around it. I know i can get a custom cam, thats what this post is all about because i cant seem to find anything that fits my criteria.


i mean no disrespect to anyone and am not trying to ruffle feathera but Im getting alittle frustrated with everyone reading 3 sentences of two posts and replying with an answer that is completely unhelpful to my question as it doesnt match up with anything Ive been asking. Mechanicalman is the only one who actualy answered my question and then offered some actual usable incite pertaining to my motor, not someone elses hypothetical.

I apologize if this sounds forward but this has become an incredibely annoying trend over all forums Ive been on recently.
Posted via Mobile Device

[GASoline71]

No disrespect taken. But if you really want to get a custom grind... it's just a phone call away. You have in your mind what you want. No opinion is going to change it. So you will need to talk to the cam companies via phone or email and order what you want.

I honestly would like to see what you come up with from ordering a custom cam.

Gary

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Cgoldhill

Yes as stated in my original post. Ramhorn style manifolds with the 45 degree dump to the back, not the true vette manifolds with the straight down dump.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think you will not get much past 250HP with Ram's horns, maybe a little more with the sedan style log or LT1 style. You are doing the right thing as you know with the cross-over pipe.

Now I'M gonna ruffle some feathers and NO DOUBT get a lot of dis-agreements, and we all know that's a waste of time LOL I'm not changing my opinion.

I think the RAM'S HORNS are some of the WORST designed exhaust manifolds EVER. The exits on the 3,4,5, and 6 exhaust ports are HORRIBLE. You have the exhaust coming out at a 90 degree angle hitting a WALL and pulses going not just downward but UPWARD smack dab into the #1,2,7, and 8 exhaust ports causing loads of reversion into the other 4 ports.

ANY header with 4 individual pipes exiting parallel to each other will FAR outperform the Ram's Horns due to less reversion and actual scavenging effect. Block huggers, Corvette tubular (86' for instance), shorty's, long tube and the best the long tube tri-y's.

[Cgoldhill]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I think you will not get much past 250HP with Ram's horns, maybe a little more with the sedan style log or LT1 style. You are doing the right thing as you know with the cross-over pipe.

Now I'M gonna ruffle some feathers and NO DOUBT get a lot of dis-agreements, and we all know that's a waste of time LOL I'm not changing my opinion.

I think the RAM'S HORNS are some of the WORST designed exhaust manifolds EVER. The exits on the 3,4,5, and 6 exhaust ports are HORRIBLE. You have the exhaust coming out at a 90 degree angle hitting a WALL and pulses going not just downward but UPWARD smack dab into the #1,2,7, and 8 exhaust ports causing loads of reversion into the other 4 ports.

ANY header with 4 individual pipes exiting parallel to each other will FAR outperform the Ram's Horns due to less reversion and actual scavenging effect. Block huggers, Corvette tubular (86' for instance), shorty's, long tube and the best the long tube tri-y's.

Longtubes are definetly in the future, just not immediately. id like to find a cam that gives me a good bump in performance and also leaves me some room to grow without maxing the cam out almost immediately. My situation right now is the oil pan has been banged up and needs replacement along with the timing cover and valve cover gaskets. Id end up replacing the timing chain anyways so im 3/4 of way to a cam change, so i figured id
Posted via Mobile Device

[Cgoldhill]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I think you will not get much past 250HP with Ram's horns, maybe a little more with the sedan style log or LT1 style. You are doing the right thing as you know with the cross-over pipe.

Now I'M gonna ruffle some feathers and NO DOUBT get a lot of dis-agreements, and we all know that's a waste of time LOL I'm not changing my opinion.

I think the RAM'S HORNS are some of the WORST designed exhaust manifolds EVER. The exits on the 3,4,5, and 6 exhaust ports are HORRIBLE. You have the exhaust coming out at a 90 degree angle hitting a WALL and pulses going not just downward but UPWARD smack dab into the #1,2,7, and 8 exhaust ports causing loads of reversion into the other 4 ports.

ANY header with 4 individual pipes exiting parallel to each other will FAR outperform the Ram's Horns due to less reversion and actual scavenging effect. Block huggers, Corvette tubular (86' for instance), shorty's, long tube and the best the long tube tri-y's.

Longtubes are definetly in the future within the next few months, just not immediately. id like to find a cam that gives me a good bump in performance and also leaves me some room to grow without maxing the cam out almost immediately. My situation right now is the oil pan has been banged up and needs replacement along with the timing cover and valve cover gaskets. Id end up replacing the timing chain anyways so im 3/4 of way to a cam change, so i figured id theow in new lifters and a cam and theres no point in putting in the dismal stocker. I cant spend money on headers to then have to hold off on maintence.

With this info in mind mechanicalman, do you still think the xe256 is too big? ill be satisfied as long as the cam gives me a performance bump for now, and even more later on with more mods. i want a cam that will squeeze the most power out of the heads as the heads may never be changed. All the complimentary breathing bolt ons will be added on in due time.

Gasoline, id still like to know why you think the 108 lsa will suck? Im seeiously asking to make sure I havent missed something. i realize ill lose some powerband and top end power but i dont need to make max hp, and id rather have 350flbs and 250hp than 320ftlbs and 260hp, just as an example.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Cgoldhill]

Sorry for the double post, the damn forum keeps logging me out mid post reply.
Posted via Mobile Device

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Cgoldhill

With this info in mind mechanicalman, do you still think the xe256 is too big? ill be satisfied as long as the cam gives me a performance bump for now, and even more later on with more mods. i want a cam that will squeeze the most power out of the heads as the heads may never be changed. All the complimentary breathing bolt ons will be added on in due time.

I do think the XE256 cam is too big. That don't mean you can't run it, but I don't think you will get what you want. As is the case with any stock 72 350 and the new 190-260-290-300 HP crate engines the compression is just too low for much gain with a new cam, UNLESS we are talking higher RPM's only while sacrificing down low, and you said that's not your game and I agree.

Performance-wise, right NOW, IMO, you would be better off just doing the headers, 2.5" dual exhaust and cross-over pipe. Torque is what you will get, MUCH more than any cam change could provide at your compression level.

Make a "wish list" then save your pennies and when you hit the mark and you have the time dedicated to install the parts, order the other parts you want and install them.

I'd LOVE to see you do the headers just to illustrate how bad the Ram's horns are and how much the headers will help. Keep in mind that if a head change is ever in the cards, headers will have to be at least loosened and set aside, and that's 95% of removal.

I just hate to have to do the valve covers and then have to do them over to do the cam, so much easier to do the cam/timing chain/oilpan/rear main seal all at once. And on that old engine, like I said the heads are typically worn out about half way through the life of the bottom end (sounds like your engine has been well taken care of).

Compression, you need more, and with it you will not have to compromise on the cam selection and save money not getting a custom grind. This is the cheapest solution, you get completely rebuilt heads new guides, stainless valves, Z28 springs, screw in studs, re-surfaced, etc:
http://www.aeroheadracing.com/chevrolet-heads/

The best solution:
Vortec heads.