Restoring Rusty

[Gregski]

well top of the monin' to ya folks, I am happy to report that after almost 2 weeks and over 350 miles of driving with the new Edelbrock Top End (cylinder heads and intake manifold for those of you un initiated, lol) we have no more coolant loss and no more milk shake in the valve covers or on the oil cap

Happy Days!!! I am so happy, it has been a long, frustrating, and expensive and well deserved fix. If I do say so myself.

Thank you all for following, reading, and a commenting (I'm looking at you MikeB), thank you so much for you help!

[RDrancher]

Well that's good news Gregski! Are you liking the way she runs?

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by RDrancher

Well that's good news Gregski! Are you liking the way she runs?

I do like the way it runs, however as I said before she runs the same, so either my ol' Vortecs were that good (despite the internal coolant leaks) or the Edelbrock E-Street cylinder heads ain't all that. I bet the shinny Edels aint all that, and I wish I had me some AFR 195s Eliminators, a boy can dream! ha ha

Full Disclosure: being a perfectionist I am a bit bothered by the valve chatter that starts above 1,500 RPM but it's same as before except before it was masked by an exhaust leak, hee hee, now I can hear it better, I am going to try +.100 longer pushrods after I measure their length, cause that's what Edelbrock recommends for these heads. And if that don't work I am throwing in some full blown Comp Cams roller rockers to see if we can quiet her down.

[MikeB]

Don't just assume she needs longer pushrods. I'd suggest checking for optimal rocker arm-to-valve stem tip geometry. For info, google "Comp Cams valvetrain geometry."

It's kinda hard to check geometry with hydraulic lifters, but you can use a lightweight test spring to make a very light "witness" mark w/o compressing the lifter. Geometry is less critical with stamped rockers that slide across the valve stem tip than with roller tipped rockers, but still, you don't want to chance wearing down the side of a valve stem tip.

As I recall you have stamped rockers. If that's the case be sure the rocker arms are not hitting the retainers, and that you are not using guide plates with self-aligning rockers.

Also, here are some race engine builder comments on what Edelbrock says about the E-Street heads not being suitable for roller cams:

https://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53337

Many of the guys at SpeedTalk.com are engine builders, head porters, and cam grinders. They are WAY over my head most of the time.

[LT7A]

Gregski, do you feel like you've noticed any benefit with regards to the lighter weight of the aluminum over the cast iron other than lifting them over the fender? You said the performance feels about the same and, so maybe it's not enough weight change to feel a difference. The owner of the local high performance shop that does some of my work has cautioned me that aluminum heads actually pull energy out of the combustion event in the form of heat. He says that installing aluminum heads without increasing the compression ratio about a point will actually net a drop in performance. If that theory holds, then maybe you have increased flow etcetera, but then were balanced out by that factor.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by LT7A

The owner of the local high performance shop that does some of my work has cautioned me that aluminum heads actually pull energy out of the combustion event in the form of heat. He says that installing aluminum heads without increasing the compression ratio about a point will actually net a drop in performance. If that theory holds, then maybe you have increased flow etcetera, but then were balanced out by that factor.

Very good point, but I'm not sure it's a full point difference. No pun intended.

I have to think the single plane manifold isn't delivering in the RPM range where the engine spends most of its time. But, hey, it sounds like a nice dual plane may be in Rusty's future.

If Greg is into black, he might want to jump on this deal:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Weiand-8120...MAAOSwzRFaVUXh

I have bought several "scratch and dent" parts (actually new and unused) from Holley's eBay store over the years, and the guys who run the store are very good to deal with.

Or wait until a standard-finish 8120 manifold is up for sale. I got one 3 years ago for (are you ready?) $79 including shipping!

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by MikeB

If Greg is into black, he might want to jump on this deal:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Weiand-8120...MAAOSwzRFaVUXh

Thanks, Mike, if you were to read this thread in its entirety and I don't suggest you do, no one is, ha ha you would see that The Greg had a Weiand intake manifold already and was very dissatisfied with the machining and sold it on Craigslist to some dude who was going to mount it on his boat engine, I took that as using it as a boat anchor, ha ha

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Gregski

TThe Greg had a Weiand intake manifold already and was very dissatisfied with the machining...

I've had four of them over the years, the first probably made in the USA in the early 90s. What a concept! The next two were machined OK, but had rough castings. The last one is an 8121 Vortec manifold I have on my truck's 355. It has a very nice casting.

I like the the Weiand 812x series because they have more modern ports than comparable Edelbrock Performer and EPS. But the Edelbrocks do have nicer, or at least more consistent, castings for sure. Hard to beat that 7101 Performer RPM in a 350-406. It's possibly the best aftermarket small block manifold ever made.

As for head gaskets, yes, a .028" composition gasket would raise compression a little (approx 0.3) and lower the quench height. But I don't know if any gains would be worth the cost and effort.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by LT7A

Gregski, do you feel like you've noticed any benefit with regards to the lighter weight of the aluminum over the cast iron other than lifting them over the fender? You said the performance feels about the same and, so maybe it's not enough weight change to feel a difference. The owner of the local high performance shop that does some of my work has cautioned me that aluminum heads actually pull energy out of the combustion event in the form of heat. He says that installing aluminum heads without increasing the compression ratio about a point will actually net a drop in performance. If that theory holds, then maybe you have increased flow etcetera, but then were balanced out by that factor.

That is a good question, the weight difference is negligeable on a 2 ton truck, it's like throwing a pool chair off of a Titanic, ha ha.

I think I may have actually decreased compression by following Edelbrocks instructions and mounting a .041 compression head gasket rather than the .028 the General had me install for the Vortec heads. But again very small potatoes. I recon Edels reasoning is if you buy these new heads most likely you had a block rebuilt and they decked it a few mil so the gasket is to compensate for piston height / quench area etc. I'm no expert just regurgetating what I read on the InterWebs.

I have not tunned the bejezus out of this new engine top end configuration yet on the account of the valve train noise, I think once I have proper rocker/pushrod geometry I will feel more comfortable pushing the engine a bit more.

Stay tuned a Dyno Test is on the horizon.

[Gregski]

Parts...

So bought two different style push rod geometry measurement tools, and .100" longer pushrods (per Edelbrock's recommendation) these are cheap Summit brand but they got decent reviews and I just want to see if the noise will subside with longer rods

one is still being shipped so not shown below

[Gregski]

Parts cont...

as well as a two pack of Edelbrock screw in replacement rocker studs (one of mine came stripped but I made it work) and some Summit brand tall valve covers in case I end up going to full roller rockers...

[Gregski]

so the adjustable push rod checker came in finally

[Gregski]

it's Friday and I am off today, so with these two different style pushrod length, and valve train geometry checkers as well as infinite YouTube wisdom I am armed with all I need to get rid of that rocker chatter / noise

[rusty76]

Good luck. You got this.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by rusty76

Good luck. You got this.

Thank you bud, you are always very positive and supportive.

[Gregski]

OK, let me start off by saying there are Two Schools of Thought when it comes to proper pushrod length and valve geomety.

1. One says the rocker should leave a mark in the center of the valve stem.

• if the mark is above horizontal center line (and closer to the intake manifold) then the pushrod is too short
• if the mark is below the horizontal centerline (closer to the exhaust manifold) then the pushrod is too long

2. The other says no no no, that's not how you do it, because the rocker pivots on a fixed point therefore travels at an arch.

[Gregski]

so to prepare for this surgery you take off the spark plug cables off the plugs and remove the spark plugs, this will allow you to rotate the engine much easier, not having to fight the compression, you also remove the valve covers and loosen up at least two rocker arm stud nuts (one intake one exhaust) so you can mark the tip of the valve stem

one way to find that mark is to use an Easy erase marker (instead of a Sharpy)

[Gregski]

then you wipe off all the oil off the rocker tip only (so it don't wash away the ink) and tighten the rocker back on the valve and pushrod just so its snug (no extra quarter turn no extra 1/2 turn, etc.)

then you rotate the engine by hand at least once, and you watch the valve open and close ie go up and down

then you loosen the rocker arm and stare at the mark

in our case the test with the original pushrods looks good, looks right int he middle, though the factory stamped rockers don't exactly have a fine tip and are more forgiving so I think that explains the wide mark, (donno?)

DISCLAIMER: No the rocker did not fall off the valve, it was moved out of the way to show us the mark. Some of my buddies who saw the pic, were like all, hey oh no the rocker fell off, no...

[Gregski]

and this is the second test this time with the new + .100" longer pushrod as recommended by the manufacturer of my aluminum cylinder heads, aka Edelbrock

as you can see the longer pushrods will be Too Long! as they leave a mark below the horizontal center line (closer to the exhaust manifold

second pic both #6 cylinder Intake and Exhaust valves tested with the longer pushrods

[Gregski]

this is just a perspective shot as if you were standing in front of your truck and looking at the passenger side cylinder head

in this shot you can see what I am talking about when I say the line is closer to the left ie the exhaust side of the engine vs the right ie the intake manifold side of the engine

just trying to help folks, just trying to help, I ain't no expert, ha ha, just learning, and having fun, and sharing

[Gregski]

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

These blue plastic pushrod checkers are completely worthless, useless, so don't waste your money. The problem with them is there is no index for where the pushrod should sit on the long end of the checker so it slides forwards and backwards giving you a bad reading all the time, both my short and long pushrods measured OK according to this piece of junk.

[Gregski]

so at this point I decided to keep my original L31 Vortec engine pushrods and I went through the vavle adjustment process all over again this time tightening each rocker stud 1/2* passed snug (last time I only did 1/4* turn)

a quick test drive showed NO IMPROVEMENT and continued rocker chatter but I don't think the rig was fully warmed up yet, so instead of crawling up into the fetal position I decided I will drive it to work for a week and report back

if this don't work I will try adjusting the rockers with the engine running using those tall brand new Summit valve covers after I cut a long hole int he top of them (cutting new parts - whimper)

if that don't work I am buying brand new Comp Cams full roller rockers and giving those a go, my logic being maybe the stamped rockers are just chatter prone, though I had a '97 Tahoe with them and that SUV engine ranned smooth, so who knows

so as always remember: sometimes the Man wins and sometimes the Truck!!!

thanks for readin'

[Gregski]

truck doing truck things...

[Gregski]

new tool being added to the Busten Knuckle Garage stable

can you guess what project is coming up next?

[Gregski]

parts... (complements of RockAuto)

I gotta say we are coming up on one year in our new house, this one we own instead of renting, well the bank owns it but you get the idea, the point being as my daughter said: "daddy we won't have to move this summer" nope honey we aint gonna have to move this summer

those of you who have been along for the ride since the beginning know that Rusty has been in four different garages in the last four years, that can wreck havoc on your "restoration" project

but now we are getting our groove back!