More on EVs from a guy trying to sell them

[Accelo]

Originally Posted by best view

he came back stating all i needed was 3 panels and the cost was 75 thousand dollars and it was possible to get a rebate back from the government of 30 thousand,

The US Government has for a long time given a 30% tax credit for installed solar. Some states and local area are giving additional incentives for solar.

6 years ago I watched my neighbor install a 24 panels 8Kw solar system and the cost was $32k. It has provided over 7-Megawats of energy per year or 7000kw. That happens to be $560 dollars per year of electricity at our low rate of .08Cents per Kw-h. Or, That is $3360 total saving over six years.
System cost $32k
Fed Rebate $9700
6 year Elect saving $3360
That means $18,940 would remains to pay off the system after 6 years of service with out incentives.

An additional $16K was available in incentives.
Panels and inverters had to be built in the USA.
One more year and every additional Kw produced is free power.
Panels are warranted for 25 years.
Real numbers from a real system installed 6 years ago.
It has only gotten less expensive as the panels and inverters cost less.
At this time the federal tax credit is available to anyone the incentives vary by location. Systems and installation is not taxed.

Government also subsided Big oil and Farming etc.

[Custom 68]

Keith what EV do you have?
Thanks,
Dave

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Custom 68

Keith what EV do you have?
Thanks,
Dave

Chevy Volt.

K

[Custom 68]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Chevy Volt.

K

Thanks Keith that’s what I assumed but wanted to confirm.
Dave

[DeadheadNM]

Ambitious….

[Accelo]

Originally Posted by DeadheadNM

Ambitious….

(Only electric Vehicle sales allowed in parts of Canada)

Ambitious? Likely so.
One could always purchase a truck instead.

Things change, more than I would have guessed.
In eleven years Maybe batteries will improve enough to make this possible for most people.
Maybe I will be dead and it will make no difference?
Last year my life changed more than I thought was possible.
My choice is to be an optimist and embrace change as it's inevitable.

[68bowtie]

Originally Posted by Accelo

(Only electric Vehicle sales allowed in parts of Canada)

Ambitious? Likely so.
One could always purchase a truck instead.

Things change, more than I would have guessed.
In eleven years Maybe batteries will improve enough to make this possible for most people.
Maybe I will be dead and it will make no difference?
Last year my life changed more than I thought was possible.
My choice is to be an optimist and embrace change as it's inevitable.

I do respect your opinion. However, your last statement implies if someone is against mandates they are not an optimist. I don’t consider these to be exclusive. I’m an optimist too, and a problem solver by nature. But I am strongly against EV mandates. I don’t sit back and hope it will get better and that someone else will solve the problem. Embracing change… well that’s another story I do have a hard time with that haha

[franken]

I think the parking lots full of dead Teslas due to cold and the burning buses are telling. Two people getting out of an EV is one thing but 60 people evacuating a bus is an issue. Let's not bring up governments subsidizing EV buses (and school buses).

[Getter-Done]

Originally Posted by franken

Let's not bring up governments subsidizing EV buses (and school buses).

We would like you to share your Knowledge on this subject.

Especially since you always share the most knowledgeable information with the Forum.

[TotallyHucked]

It's been very interesting reading through this whole thread. I am very much in the anti-EV camp. I will never own one, they are all ugly, soul-less creatures. The only place an EV belongs is on the golf course lol.

We all know the gubment and the environmentalists want to legislate out ICE vehicles as quickly as possible. It'd be nice if they'd recognize that there could be a good middle ground. Porsche has been looking into synthetic fuels for a while now. I don't know how feasible that is on a large scale but I like that idea. I don't care what my red-blooded American V8 runs on as long as it's making the power and sounds I like. If it could be done on a cleaner fuel, I'm all for it

[Axle]

Maybe you'll be enticed by this then;

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/10...eve-driven-it/

It starts with a simple joystick and a simpler pedal, both connected to a whole lot of very clever software written by one man with a strong passion for making cars more engaging.

That man is Isami Yoichiro, who actually holds a patent for this creation. He drives a GR Yaris (with a manual transmission, naturally), and he's not exactly an EV lover. "Personally, I don't like BEV," he told me. "But with this system, I like BEV."

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Axle

Maybe you'll be enticed by this then;

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/10...eve-driven-it/

I suggest software to eliminate range anxiety. Maybe seat vibrations and/or a type of soothing music.

[68bowtie]

Originally Posted by MikeB

I suggest software to eliminate range anxiety. Maybe seat vibrations and/or a type of soothing music.

No no you have it all wrong. Mandates and threats of fines and jail time. Just gotta create a worse fear to overcome the range anxiety so you pick the lesser of the two evils. Haha

[Boog]

So, that's like driving a simulator on the streets.

[68bowtie]

That’s kind of silly

[Steeveedee]

^ What he said!

I guess it would be good (as mentioned in the article) for teaching people to drive a stick without breaking parts.

[TotallyHucked]

Ummmm WAT. I don't even know what to say. That's so dumb

[72c20customcamper]

Mmmmm GM is backtracking .

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/30/gm-t...uct-plans.html

[truckster]

Originally Posted by 72c20customcamper

Mmmmm GM is backtracking .

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/30/gm-t...uct-plans.html

So, we've had the Volt, and now the Bolt... maybe the next one will the the Molt? Nah, too dumb.

I've got it... the Re-Volt!

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by truckster

So, we've had the Volt, and now the Bolt... maybe the next one will the the Molt? Nah, too dumb.

I've got it... the Re-Volt!

Smart business move by GM--finally. Some other manufacturers, like Mazda and Toyota, never dug themselves that far into the EV hole. Full-on EVs work for commuters, but hybrids make more sense for most of us.

And I have to think super-cold temperatures leading to reduced battery capacity and iced-over chargers have essentially said, "Welcome to the world of four-season driving!"

ReVolt! I like it.

[72c20customcamper]

Originally Posted by MikeB

Smart business move by GM--finally. Some other manufacturers, like Mazda and Toyota, never dug themselves that far into the EV hole. Full-on EVs work for commuters, but hybrids make more sense for most of us.

And I have to think super-cold temperatures leading to reduced battery capacity and iced-over chargers have essentially said, "Welcome to the world of four-season driving!"

ReVolt! I like it.

I believe the reason that the Japanese car companies haven’t gone in as deep as ford and Chevy into EVs is they don’t need to boost their corporate mpg averages . The domestic companies sell a lot of gas guzzlers especially trucks .

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

My girlfriend was quick to buy a Volvo EV. I won't get into why she did that, no more than to say she lives in California Anyway, it's a pain in the ask, but she insists that she loves the car.

For instance today she traveled from Sac. to Monterey, and couldn't find an available charger anywhere. She couldn't even spend much energy looking for a place, because should she even try, the chargers may not be available, never mind at times they don't work at all.

With luck she arrived at her daughters place with 10% left over. That's cutting it close, what if there's a traffic jam, after all, it's California. Then she had the challenge that she can't leave tomorrow as planned, because it's not charged. Her daughter only has a 110, that's like watching grass grow. Anyway, before dinner they managed to locate an available fast charge, and barely squeezed in.

[Sicklajoie]

Looks like common sense will prevail, for a little while anyways.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a46912...ev-transition/

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Sicklajoie

Looks like common sense will prevail, for a little while anyways.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a46912...ev-transition/

From the article:

"Some of the blame (for the EV sales slowdown) went to high EV sticker prices, even as the growing inventory as well as Tesla price pressures pushed MSRPs down. By last fall, the average transaction price of an EV was $50,798, compared with an ATP of $48,759 for conventional gasoline and hybrid models, according to Cox Automotive."

I think those prices are somewhat misleading. I have to wonder what you get for that average EV price of $50,798. Maybe a small Tesla Model 3 with a base price of $39K but a typically price of $46K-51K. Compare that to a 7-8 passenger gasoline powered SUV for mid-high $40K range. It would be more fair to compare the Model 3 to a Honda Civic or maybe an Accord. And with those cars you'd get a real instrument panel and Apple Car Play! So, to sum up you still get more for less with gasoline-powered cars. Will EVs eventually dominate? Heck, I don't know, but certainly wouldn't bet on it.

[Accelo]

2023 was an awful year for EV's.
They grew 45%

I understand no one want's to be told what to do.
My belief is Efficiency will prevail in the end.
Remember the mandate was for cars, not trucks.
There are a lot of people that EV's do work for.

And if you live in an area were it gets below 0 deg F you shouldn't have an elect car as your only transportation.
If you can't charge at home maybe an elect car isn't for you.

No oil changes, no O2 sensors, no exhaust, no radiator, no fuel injectors, no engine air cleaner, no plugs or wires, no transmission, so it can't fail. Brakes last for over 100K because 95% of the regeneration slows the car and they are not needed. The list goes on.

One thing a ICE car can not do it turn a down hill back to fuel. Elect vehicles do this with ease. So even if a ICE car was 95% efficient, and they are closer to 20%, the elect vehicle would be more efficient because the ability to turn potential energy into fuel.
The more you drive the more the price per mile goes down.

No one want to pay more to travel than required.

Car and Driver found: So, by our calculations this makes the electric F-150 $2664 cheaper to own and operate over the first three years than its gas counterpart—and that’s without the tax credit. With it, it’s a substantial $10,164 less in three years of driving.
Plus, as the years progress the lower costs of operating an electric vehicle (fuel and maintenance) continue to accrue.
So is owning an EV cheaper in the long run? All signs point to possibly. Maybe. Sometimes. But as we said, at this point in time, it’s complicated.