Make it handle

[Greywolf200]

Originally Posted by jon@scottshotrods

we offer a coil over cross member available now that we have been selling for the last year!

Thanks for the info, but I don't want Mustang suspension on my truck. It'll still be used as a shop truck.

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by Greywolf200

Thanks for the info, but I don't want Mustang suspension on my truck. It'll still be used as a shop truck.

What makes you think it is a mustang II??? we use a mustang spindle but our upper and lower A-arm pivots are not mustang II nor is any thing else on the suspension. Here at Scott's Hotrods We manufacture our front crossmembers specific to that vehicle and never use MII geometry. Our C-10 BOLT IN crossmember is specifict to the 63-87 Chevy truck

[tech@scottshotrods]

We at Scott's Just acquired a nice lil project that is 90% done, Mike Finnegans old C-10 that we had been working on for the last 3-4 years! It sports a svt cobra Independent rear suspension, FOX double adjust. remote reservoir shocks, Scott's IFS with double adjust. FOX double adjust remote reservoir shocks, a healthy not so stock LS2.. We should have it done fast and at an auto cross track near you! hopefully we'll give ya a run for your money Rob :-)

[tech@scottshotrods]

here's a sneak peak as whats to come!






We're coming for you Rob!!!!!!

[68GMCCustom]

nice!

[Custom 68]

I have been following both this thread and the JT build thread. My question is on frame bracing or stiffening. It looked like in the JT thread the extra stiffening was minimal. I have been "finished" for a few years but keep improving. I am about ready to take teh bed off mine and put a small c notch and work on the shock angles and get my sway bar back installed.
While this is off I thought about adding some stiffness to teh frame but was not sure how much should be done. Any guidelines on this?
Thanks
David

[robnolimit]

Greywolf The stock crossmember for C-10's has a couple of problems. It hangs too low and ground clearance can be an issue on lowered trucks. The geometry doesn't allow for the type of caster/camber settings we would want, and it's heavy. I know that Nate Porter is working on a coil-over, - performance oriented version of the Dropmember. I don't know of any others. With a bit of fab work, the stock crossmember can be raised 1 1/5" without getting into too much trouble. (ground clearance solved) Many companies offer A-arms that fix, or help fix, the geometry problem. As for wieght, I think a crossmember swap might save 40 lbs ??? Nate? anybody? Custm fabbing an aluminum core support would be a better use of funds, and better wieght to loose (higher and farther forward) - Hotchkis, I know the C-10's are going on a diet, don't forget this mod if you want to beat me in P-town - your welcome.
By the way. i feel that I have to chime in here. Mustang II geometry is still - 35 yrs later - some of the best working stuff ever designed. Racers still use it, and rodders still copy it. BUT, it has to be used it the right application. 40 fords, 37 chevy's, and small cars and trucks whose body configuration needs a narrow track, 56 1/2" to 58 1/2". Also weight can be a factor on front suspension choice. There are heavier springs available, but the suspension design itself has its limits. So, don't knock 'em - in the right place.

[Greywolf200]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Also weight can be a factor on front suspension choice. There are heavier springs available, but the suspension design itself has its limits. So, don't knock 'em - in the right place.

That's why I don't want a Mustang suspension on my truck. Did you ever finsish your testing of available A-arms to see if there was a suitable one for updating the front end geometry?

Thanks,

[Hotchkis]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Greywolf The stock crossmember for C-10's has a couple of problems. It hangs too low and ground clearance can be an issue on lowered trucks. The geometry doesn't allow for the type of caster/camber settings we would want, and it's heavy. I know that Nate Porter is working on a coil-over, - performance oriented version of the Dropmember. I don't know of any others. With a bit of fab work, the stock crossmember can be raised 1 1/5" without getting into too much trouble. (ground clearance solved) Many companies offer A-arms that fix, or help fix, the geometry problem. As for wieght, I think a crossmember swap might save 40 lbs ??? Nate? anybody? Custm fabbing an aluminum core support would be a better use of funds, and better wieght to loose (higher and farther forward) - Hotchkis, I know the C-10's are going on a diet, don't forget this mod if you want to beat me in P-town - your welcome.
By the way. i feel that I have to chime in here. Mustang II geometry is still - 35 yrs later - some of the best working stuff ever designed. Racers still use it, and rodders still copy it. BUT, it has to be used it the right application. 40 fords, 37 chevy's, and small cars and trucks whose body configuration needs a narrow track, 56 1/2" to 58 1/2". Also weight can be a factor on front suspension choice. There are heavier springs available, but the suspension design itself has its limits. So, don't knock 'em - in the right place.

Rob,
Thanks for the tip. We’ll take a look at the support. We can build you a custom one, just for your truck. It might end up being a few pounds heavier than stock. We hope you don’t mind.

[robnolimit]

custom 68 We did do some minimal bracing on the JT, we should get the info up on the JT thread this weekend. Boxing the rear kick, and adding a bit of tubing to create triangles is the goal. Do you already have a rear sway bar? I'l do my best to get the info up soon

[Custom 68]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

custom 68 We did do some minimal bracing on the JT, we should get the info up on the JT thread this weekend. Boxing the rear kick, and adding a bit of tubing to create triangles is the goal. Do you already have a rear sway bar? I'l do my best to get the info up soon

Great I will be looking, I think in the mean time I will remove my bed and get ready for some work. I also am going to make a battery box and move it back, this will all be easier with the bed off. I will also look into flipping or fabricating new bracket for the front trailing arm attachments. I have read about moving this piviot up.
The sway bar I have is from a Camaro there was an article on here a few years back on how to do this. I did it on the cheap and on my own which is what I enjoy. During the Hot Rod Power tour 2010 during my 2500 mile stint between my buddy and his stuff and the necessary cooler you haul when you have a truck i had bottomed out the sway bar or atleast I thought I might be as the clearance to the frame was really thin so we removed it during one of the stops. Some of the roads can be questionable. I now want to lower the rear another inch or so with blocks so that is where I am on that.
The sway bar really seemed to help and I miss it. I will make some clearance and stiffen the rear as I go and await info on your rack and pinion setup.
Thanks
David

[robnolimit]

Jon@Scotts Glad to see your building a competitor. BRING IT

[tech@scottshotrods]

Well good thing we dont offer or sale a mustang II..... how did we get on the mustang II topic again? LOL like mentioned our coil over front has been on the market now for over a year with great success

[robnolimit]

HAHA, I never thought of a heavier one. - Now, if it bolted to the back bumber, I might take you up on that.

[Hotchkis]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

HAHA, I never thought of a heavier one. - Now, if it bolted to the back bumber, I might take you up on that.

Robnolimit,

We're here to help. We'll see you soon.

[TrueChevyTech]

Hey rob, care to do a make it handle on air post... similar to the one where you gave a cost efficient break down of the best bang for the buck on springs

[andrewmp6]

I'm still waiting to see someone use c5 suspension on one of these trucks.I know nate has a c4 dropmember and talked about making a c5 one but haven't seen any pictures yet.

[ajgriffin]

Originally Posted by andrewmp6

I'm still waiting to see someone use c5 suspension on one of these trucks.I know nate has a c4 dropmember and talked about making a c5 one but haven't seen any pictures yet.

Couple out there that are far enough along for you to see what it would look like, but both are on hold:

Frizzle Fry: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=179289
abadsvt: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=263426

[robnolimit]

Corvette suspensions is a whole topic on its own. If you started with a clean sheet of paper, and youset out to design the best handling lowered truck you could, it would end up looking like a Corvette with a little tiny bed on the back. - Every time. Now, we don't get a clean sheet to start with, so things are a bit more restricted. I will agree that Corvettes handle great, but they are Corvettes. The rears can be used in many applications with great success, but you have to pay close attention to the spring rates. When it comes to the fronts, I have a different opinion (remember, this is just my opinion) The thing about the front suspension is that the rack is mounted rather 'high' in the IFS. In a Corvette, this is fine, because the engine is behind the IFS, but in a pick up, the engine sits over the front suspension. So, with the Corvette IFS, it forces you to raise the engine an inch or two. So any gain in suspension gain is lost in the raising of of the engine, - C.G.

[andrewmp6]

I have seen the c5/c6 spindles and a arms used on f body subframes like art morrison and detroit speed.The rack height on them don't look really that much higher,But i haven't seen under a stock corvette in a while so no clue on heights to compare.

[robnolimit]

Hmmm, good thought. 2 1/8" would be the number. And, oil pan clearance would be a must. Now, if you do this, move the crossmember forward 1" to help fit the tire to the wheel opening. Use the BEST rod end you can buy. A high mis-alignment chromoly unit.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Hmmm, good thought. 2 1/8" would be the number. And, oil pan clearance would be a must. Now, if you do this, move the crossmember forward 1" to help fit the tire to the wheel opening. Use the BEST rod end you can buy. A high mis-alignment chromoly unit.

Seems like a bunch of work though for the possible benefits.

The bumpsteer would potentially be better but the factory a-arm set-up would still limit caster & require further changes to optimize things. Moving the x-member forward to reset the spindle C/L within the well would prob require moving the steering gear as well. Moving the steering gear would prob interfere w/the radiator and/or core support mounts.

It could be quite the 'can-o-worms'.

[Conundrum]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Seems like a bunch of work though for the possible benefits.

The bumpsteer would potentially be better but the factory a-arm set-up would still limit caster & require further changes to optimize things. Moving the x-member forward to reset the spindle C/L within the well would prob require moving the steering gear as well. Moving the steering gear would prob interfere w/the radiator and/or core support mounts.

It could be quite the 'can-o-worms'.

I had thought of doing things just as you described a few months back, but I then decided to go ahead and Z my frame 2" for added drop and I could move everything forward by cutting the frame at an angle.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Conundrum

I had thought of doing things just as you described a few months back, but I then decided to go ahead and Z my frame 2" for added drop and I could move everything forward by cutting the frame at an angle.

That's how I was going to do mine as well but w/no real gains for the factory geometry, decided a different route. A good combo would prob be the Hotchkiss set-up on a 2-3" Z'd truck. You gain precious clearance for the lower a-arms & crossmember plus the geometry is vastly improved.

This is why I look forward to Porterbuilts 'Touring DM' as well as what No Limts comes up w/based on their 'JT' track evaluations.

[robnolimit]

Let me chime in a bit.
1. As to air ride and handling, remember that an air spring is just that, a spring. You can tune an air spring in many ways, air pressure, air spring part chance, and by shimming the mounting surface. An air spring is a more 'pure' spring than a steel spring, and also, where a steel spring usually has a fairly constant spring rate, an air spring tends to gain spring rate as you compress it. This can be a handling plus, if you know how to tune for it. The biggest difference we see is that an air spring rebounds VERY quickly compared to a steel spring, so the shock need a bit more rebound control. Other than that, an air spring suspension can handle just as well as a steel spring truck.
2. I have to say we learned a ton of stuff building our J.T. project. And as we talk to enthusiests in the C-10 realm, we get a lot of different input. It seems that there are three types of truck builders. Basic bolt-on, advanced bolt-on, and all-out. The first two types are defiatley the most common, so the market says thats where we need to be, - mostly. I know we're slow at getting parts out to the market place. We test EVERYTHING, and it takes a while. We also try to plan in any changes that may have been made to the trucks already, so that the new parts will still work. Please be patient.
3. For the most part, please ask questions here. I get a lot of P.M.'s, and many are questions that everyone could benefit from. Don't be shy, I'll try not to make fun of them. Have a great day, and go work on your truck.