Ever want to shoot an engineer?

[LONGHAIR]

I run into the same problem on a regular basis, but in their defence, I would guess that at least part of the issue is budgetary restrictions.

It's an age-old battle.

[Ceeten]

How about the one that decided to replace the 4 bolts that did a perfectly good job holding the fan on a small block since probably 1955 and replace them with a threaded fan clutch and water pump hub. I have had to take the back off the water pump before and jam the impeller with something just to get the fan off.

[KQQL IT]

Originally Posted by Ceeten

How about the one that decided to replace the 4 bolts that did a perfectly good job holding the fan on a small block since probably 1955 and replace them with a threaded fan clutch and water pump hub. I have had to take the back off the water pump before and jam the impeller with something just to get the fan off.

Its faster to install on the line.

[irving216]

Originally Posted by broey

I used to work for chrysler, and they told us that everything would be designed by different groups, in different areas. and then they would meet up, put all their crap together and as long as somehow there is a way for everything to mount, they call it good.

thats almost definatly what it is. im pretty sure on the caddy northstars your pulling the engine almost out to do a heater core. never did it just heard about it. but i mean really? engineers need to just work on one of there cars they build and then rebuild it.

[Ceeten]

Yep sometimes it seems that the heater core must be the first thing down the line and the car is built around it.
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[70cst]

Originally Posted by GmtGmt

I work at Renault and Volvo Dealer this is what i have to deal with on a dayli basis

YouTube - ‪Fifth Gear change a light bulb‬‏

I luv it...It's FB time

[squaredaway]

Not an engineer but here's something to think about:

Think about all of the things the engineers get right... The reason we all have 20+ years old trucks is because way back when most of those things were done right...

[meter swinger]

^^ true. Engineering quality has slipped just like everyrhing else in this nation. I work in the DOE nuclear weapons complex. During WWII the us built three reactors at least 6 separations plants and much more support facilities in three states, and all in 18 months. The first reactor ever constructed "b" reactor at hanford WA. Cooked the first fuel rods in history then the rods were dissolved and plutonium extracted, then made into a bomb and sent to nagasaki. All this was done by men with SLIDE RULERS. 60+ yrs later with more technology in our phones than we ever dreamed and now mexico? Is building dodge and gm vehicles. We are headed in the wrong direction.
Sorry for the rant.
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[dv8customs]

As an engineer I always listen to the advice of the guys on the production floor. They have their hands on the product every day so they often know what will work and what wont. But due to the fact that they are hands on with the product day in and day out they are also often stubborn to accept any changes, even when they are meant to make their job easier and the product cheaper/better.

[fastwillie 696969]

kill the lego engineer ,i step on those things all the time

[lakeroadster]

Originally Posted by 78 Chevyrado

Where engineers get into trouble is that 99% of them work on paper and won't listen to us lowly peons. They should apprentice in their chosen field and have to be journeyman before becoming engineers.

As a 50 year old Mechanical Engineer I couldn't agree more. I have always said that when interviewing a Designer or Mech. Engineer for a position the first part of the interview should be to have them change the tire on the car they are driving. If they can't do that with some semblance of direction and aptitude, don't interview them.

I have enjoyed a fairly successful career over the past 30 years and I credit that more to the guys building the product than to my own ability. I value their opinions and feedback as much (and sometimes more) than other Engineers, codes or standards.

Most of my friends from prior places of employment are shop guys: welders, machinists, fabricators, shop foremen, plant managers, etc. That pretty telling.

In an OEM environment, where product is being built for consumers, maintenance items should be a design priority. Access panels, drain paths, etc. are all part of the thought process on a well designed product.

However automobiles are an entirely different animal. Items like dash pads are designed for ease of manufacturability and installation on the assembly line. Period, end of story. Making it easier for a guy restoring the vehicle isn't even part of the equation. Save a penny on every vehicle and you can save millions for the company. Even maintenance items such as access to plugs and oil filters is a low priority from a design perspective. Getting to them is important, getting to them easily, not so much. This is especially true today since most people don't even work on their vehicles, they have someone else do it. Therefore they don't "buy" based on maintenance ease. The manufacturers build what the masses demand.

[Ceeten]

Originally Posted by dv8customs

As an engineer I always listen to the advice of the guys on the production floor. They have their hands on the product every day so they often know what will work and what wont. But due to the fact that they are hands on with the product day in and day out they are also often stubborn to accept any changes, even when they are meant to make their job easier and the product cheaper/better.

I vote for you as the chief engineer for GM. Then we could buy bagged and bodied C10's right off the lot. Couldnt get much better than that
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[onpoint]

i worked for toyota / lexus dealer and had to listen to customers freak out when we told them it was $1,300 dollars to change the starter on the v8's because the engineers at lexus put it under the intake manifold between the cylinder heads.

[Keith Seymore]

You guys are starting to head in the right direction, now - but you haven't gone nearly far enough.

As an engineer, yes - you'll be measured on ease of assembly. But you will also be measured on servicability. And warranty cost. And piece cost. And investment. And throughput. And part quality. And part count and mass. And the effect on fuel economy and/or vehicle range. And green criteria and recyclability. And the accumulated durability requirements that 100 years of very smart people have decided your part must meet. Oh - and if you can optimize all of the above while reusing an existing part from another program that would be ideal.

Which would be ok if you only had a handful of parts... but you don't. You have all of the plastic trim on the inside of the car. For two door, four door and wagons. Across five model years.

Which might sound manageable, but each model year is at a different build phase. So you've got one design for hand made parts for the 2015 mule program, but you have prototype parts coming off soft tools for the 2014 pre-production builds, which - due to the build schedule at the assembly plant - are being built prior to the 2013 right hand drive parts that they are based on. And, the plant doesn't want to move where they install the glass so you need to suboptimize your design to accomodate their build process. Naturally, you are supporting the non saleable builds for the 2012 program and providing saleable parts for the 2011 production cars. And, naturally, there are between 3 and 7 assembly plants (in three countries) producing your model, plus the pre-production shops here at the Tech Center.

Which you could probably do, if you only had one product line.....but you don't. You have four different programs: the Alpha, the Beta, the Sigma and some greek letter you've never heard of before. Oh, and you've just inherited the Zeta program from a guy that got promoted - and he just had a car burn to the ground at Milford. So you need to run out there and find out what happened ....

....but you can't. Because you've got a build problem in Flint. They are building one vehicle per minute and you need to contain this problem with a quick fix before they build the next car. Which is impossible, but you are up for it, because you know you can design a long term solution that's better than the previous guy did...

.....if there were no further changes. But change is the only thing that is consistent around here. There are work order based changes that you've written, and the program team keeps making changes to option content and colors. And they just decided they want to pull ahead the 2013 changes into the 2012 model year - a year earlier than normal program timing would dictate - and you've got no choice but to accelerate your plans to match. And, the truck program, which uses your same part, can't access the top fastener in one of their assembly plants and so they are asking you to make a change on their behalf. And, during your 3 am conference call with China, they just informed you of a new regulation that you have to meet for the 100 cars that you are sending them in November of this year (at least you think so, because it was kind of hard to understand what they were saying). And, you've just been challenged to take several thousand dollars of piece cost out of the GMX-xxx program.

Incidentally, each one of these individual changes requires your direct personal touch, because nothing seems to happen without your intimate involvement. In fact, it seems that your "support" staffs, like purchasing for example, are actively working against you, by placing your work order on "Hold" (to negotiate an 8 cent savings) without telling anyone (because "that's the process") and you just discovered that nothing has happened on that change for the last 6 months. So you've got to clean up after a train wreck, but they can show that they saved the corporation 8 cents per vehicle.

You could probably make some headway if you had some time at your desk.....but you don't. You could easily attend meetings all day every day, some of which you have to prepare for ahead of time and present a status update of how you are doing. Normally, you are double or triple booked, with a personal best of five required meetings at the same time. It's a luxury to only do one or two things at a time, but you are always doing three, four, five things all at once (and none of them particularly well), all as quickly and with as little thought as possible.

And - while all this is going on - you are receiving between 300 and 1000 emails a day. Most are junk, but you know that each one has the potential to have a time bomb in it. So - you skim through those trying to find nuggets of gold in all the sludge in your email inbox. While answering your phone, which doesn't stop ringing. And now there's instant messaging - so you've got three IM's going at the same time. While covering for your boss, who is on maternity leave. You've got 10 vacation days you still haven't used, because you know if you leave all of this will pile up until you get back.

So, I think that perhaps paints a little more representative picture. I believe we are hiring again, if anyone is interested....

K

[lakeroadster]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

I believe we are hiring again, if anyone is interested....

K

Based on my experiences your post paints a picture of a hugely dysfunctional corporation. And a bail out and GM's competition have proven that many times historically.

As a Mechanical Engineer, I have worked for 6 companies in 30 years, one of which was an 18 year stint. I quit the jobs that didn't give me the time required to accomplish the task at hand and to do so in a manner that ensured quality cost effective designs.

Life is too short to work under the conditions you posted above.

With all due respect perhaps you should be looking for a new job. Work deadlines are hollow things to your family and friends. Take those vacation days, you earned them. Life is short... your family and you deserve quality time.

And above all, don't let the bastard's wear you down.

John

[N2TRUX]

Keith, thanks you for that humorous insight to the wonderful world of automotive engineering. It's a good read as "a day in the life" of your world.

John, your sounding cranky again....