2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments

[Mike_82_Shortbox]

Originally Posted by hairlesshobo

For reference sake, this is the gauge that I am using: http://www.longacreracing.com/catalo...id=129&catid=5

Even though I didn't have much room to work when I tried to look at my alignment yesterday, I was in fact able to try out the gauge and get a feel for how it works. I re-read the directions that came with the gauge about 10 times before starting. It appears that the brakes don't need to be locked when doing an alignment with the bubble style gauge. I assume this is because when you do your 40* sweep, you sweep out first, rotate the gauge until it is level with the ground and set caster to 0*, then sweep past center to 20* inward and rotate the gauge again to be level with the ground. With this in mind, they expect you to rotate the gauge when setting caster so if the tire were to roll a little, it wouldn't make much of a difference because you have to re level the gauge each time anyways.

I still think it's a wise choice to lock the e-brake anyways just to make sure it doesn't try to slip off the turn plates or anything like that.

Just my thoughts about this, but who knows.. I may be completely wrong, won't be the first time.

-Steve

Steve,

Looks like you got it. The releveling of the guage is the equivalent to locking the brakes on an electronic machine it seems, so if you go by the instructions, you should be fine. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

Mike

[hairlesshobo]

I see how not locking the brakes could negatively effect it when turning the wheel side to side. If it were to roll at all it would negate the point of sweeping left to right. Thanks for clearing this up. So just to recap what I have learned from here and from uncle Google, tell me if I am missing anything. I am going to take a whack at doing an alignment for the first time tomorrow.

• Lock brakes when setting caster
• Set caster first
• Set camber second
• Set toe third
• Make sure front wheels are placed on some sort of free floating pad (either turnplates or using the vinyl tile method)
• Ensure that the truck is on a completely level slab of concrete, both left to right and front to rear
• Make sure that Caster left to right is withing 1/4* of each other
• Make sure that camber is set equally from side to side (also withing 1/4*)
• Make sure steering wheel is straight when setting toe (this is just annoying when it's turned partially to the side like mine currently is)
• Make sure toe matches on each side and don't go extreme for the sake of the tire life

Have I missed anything in this? I plan to use the string & caster/camber gauge method. I will first setup a completely level surface, then box off string square around the vehicle. I will set caster, then camber using the gauge. I will then set toe using the string as a guide.

I would also like to check if my rear end is lined up properly. I plan to measure from a point on the outside of the axle, just inside of the rear tire to the first u bolt of the lower control arm. I will do this on each side and then compare the measurements. If they are off, I will adjust accordingly. Is this a reliable method for checking the "alignment" of the rear axle without a fancy machine or is there a better do-it-yourself method?

I am very excited to take a whack at my own alignments. I feel that it has the potential to be VERY handy for as long as I am building and restoring vehicles, as well as save me a lot of money. Thanks again for all of the pointers everyone!

-Steve

[BMERDOC]

As rusty as I am at home brewed alignments I'd say you are on the money. If you wanted to, after your caster/camber set up, you could reset the strings to match thrust and set your toe according to this angle. You'd only have to tweak the strings to match the angle. It may be time consuming and not worth it considering we are learning that the older trucks have much more angle that can't be adjusted out than I am currently used to. Have fun and if it messes with your head walk away!!!

[hairlesshobo]

I am thrilled to hear that. So I assume my idea for checking if the axle is straight would work then?

[67swb72klb]

good info doc thanx for the rite up

[hairlesshobo]

Well I tried to take a whack at doing an alignment but quickly found that the garage I was working in just didn't have the space I needed to set everything up. I think I am going to try it again next weekend in the parking lot of my complex or my job. I will post back when I know more.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BMERDOC]

Mike, the discrepancy in dynamic toe changes is why I recommend setting toe at the average of the spec. I see the point in engineering allowances for suspension deflection. I myself am not terribly worried about getting the utmost from toe settings on a street truck because I not tryng to shave tenths off my lap times. Please don't think I'm knocking you, I'm not. I thank you for the additional thoughts and info. I would like to experiment with the toe settings for road feel on my truck once I feel caster and camber are where they should be.
I didn't look back for the specs but I think that I was refering to an E46 M3. The specs for that car are 6.92 to 7.92 for caster and and -.67 to -1.33 for camber. I'm not sure of the spec on my E36 325i (I know, shame on me) but the next time one is on the rack I'll be sure to check the specs.

[Mike_82_Shortbox]

I am getting a new set of wheels and tires on Friday, then I'll have the alignment rechecked. I think my other wheels are bent. They are balanced perfectly but the truck shimmies on the freeway. I also have a turning radius problem that is new since my new frontend parts.

I never mentioned my broken crossmember at the steering box. I have it chained together. That's another $600 to fix, which will be next week.

I think I am going to eventually lower this truck and give it a BMW wheel alignment. I may rely on this forum for the guidance to do that. The rear end looks easy; the front not so much.

[usmcchevy]

BMERDOC, Just want to say thanks again for your work in this thread. Thanks to this thread and Rob's "Make it handle" thread, today I tore apart my front end again. I'm shifting my lower control arms forward 3/4".

Old.



New.



I'm hoping to make a nice handling DD out of this truck. So just to verify, I should ask for

Camber: -.5
Caster: As much as possible. Or should I give them a range?
Toe: Average of Spec.

This is with 2" drop spindles, stock front springs with 1/2 coil cut and 5" rear drop springs. Thanks!!!

[Mike_82_Shortbox]

Did you just rotate those rods and drill a locating hole on the other side? I think I want to do the same thing...

Can you tell me the diameter and center to center measurement for the locator holes (are there two or only one per rod)?

Thanks!

[usmcchevy]

Originally Posted by Mike_82_Shortbox

Did you just rotate those rods and drill a locating hole on the other side? I think I want to do the same thing...

Can you tell me the diameter and center to center measurement for the locator holes (are there two or only one per rod)?

Thanks!

Yes, turned the shafts 180deg and drilled a 5/8" hole a little over 1/8" deep. The locating pin measures right at 5/8" so I had to wallow the hole out a hair so the shaft would seat correctly. There is only one locator pin per side and I drilled 2" from the shaft shoulder. 73+ shafts are different take a look here: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=501241

[grwnded71]

Originally Posted by usmcchevy

BMERDOC, Just want to say thanks again for your work in this thread. Thanks to this thread and Rob's "Make it handle" thread, today I tore apart my front end again. I'm shifting my lower control arms forward 3/4".

Old.



New.



I'm hoping to make a nice handling DD out of this truck. So just to verify, I should ask for

Camber: -.5
Caster: As much as possible. Or should I give them a range?
Toe: Average of Spec.

This is with 2" drop spindles, stock front springs with 1/2 coil cut and 5" rear drop springs. Thanks!!!

How did moving the lca forward effect how the coil spring sits in its pocket?

[usmcchevy]

Originally Posted by grwnded71

How did moving the lca forward effect how the coil spring sits in its pocket?

The spring isn't touching anything it shouldn't as far as I can tell. It drives quiet with no bind issues. Keep in mind this is with 1/2 coil cut from stock springs or about 1" drop springs. The more drop (shorter the spring) the greater the spring angle will be.











Tires go on tomorrow, alignment Thurs-Friday.

Originally Posted by BMERDOC

Thans Rob. It seems to have taken on a life of its own!

My bad

[Greywolf200]

Originally Posted by usmcchevy

BMERDOC, Just want to say thanks again for your work in this thread. Thanks to this thread and Rob's "Make it handle" thread, today I tore apart my front end again. I'm shifting my lower control arms forward 3/4".

This is with 2" drop spindles, stock front springs with 1/2 coil cut and 5" rear drop springs. Thanks!!!

This is exactly the setup I'm considering. How about some side pics to show the stance and what are your tire sizes?

Thanks,

[usmcchevy]

Originally Posted by Greywolf200

This is exactly the setup I'm considering. How about some side pics to show the stance and what are your tire sizes?

Thanks,

Current tires are front 255/60R15 and rear 275/60R15.

Just got the new front tires on tonight and this is the best I can do. Tomorrow or friday I'll get some better pics.



I drop her off tomorrow at 7am for an alignment.

[BMERDOC]

usmcchevy, you camber can be in a range of -.5 to -1.0. Camber shouldnt be over -2.0 on a street driven vehicle and yes get as much caster as you can.

Mike, I looked at all the cars being aligned yesterday and camber was in the 6 to 7 degree range including the X5 I aligned (6.2 to 7.2). I think I'm gonna start doing my toe adjustments in fractional to see if there is much difference in the specified range. Keep in mind that these cars are rack and pinion, front steer cars and most use between a 225 and a 255 front tire.

[hairlesshobo]

usmcchevy, I look forward to finding out what kinda caster angles this modification allows you to have. Also, what size rims & tires are you running? I really want to do this mod to my truck but I want to make sure that it isn't gonna cause any issues with my current wheels.

[BMERDOC]

So, true to my word, I performed an alignment using fractions instead of degrees/minutes. Hey?!?! Hasn't someone said before that 1/16th per side with 1/8th total is the hot lick for a performance alignment? Huh, cool. I will say that its not as accurate as I'm used to. I normally have to tweak and tweak to get the average of spec but I had to specifically look at the center mark and align it to that because 1/16th took up the entire hot zone of the scale. I guess thats what happens when you use a laser alignment machine I'll continue to align them for a little while like this.Its easy to swap back and forth between degrees/minute and fractions by clicking on the steering wheel icon on the scale and selecting the menu for changing measurements. And yes this car was that bad initially. The steering wheel was offcenter pointing to 10 o'clock and the steering felt twitchy.

[usmcchevy]

Thanks BMERDOC.

Originally Posted by hairlesshobo

usmcchevy, I look forward to finding out what kinda caster angles this modification allows you to have. Also, what size rims & tires are you running? I really want to do this mod to my truck but I want to make sure that it isn't gonna cause any issues with my current wheels.

My wheels are some old 15x8.5 slots. New front tires will be here Monday 255/60R15. Should have them on Wednesday.The rear has some old 275/60R15s that I plan to burn off I am having a bit of trouble finding a place that will use my alignment specs or that doesn't want $130+"fees" for a custom alignment...

[hairlesshobo]

Originally Posted by usmcchevy

Thanks BMERDOC.



My wheels are some old 15x8.5 slots. New front tires will be here Monday 255/60R15. Should have them on Wednesday.The rear has some old 275/60R15s that I plan to burn off I am having a bit of trouble finding a place that will use my alignment specs or that doesn't want $130+"fees" for a custom alignment...

Believe me, I understand the trouble finding a decent alignment shop that will work with you... that's exactly why I am learning to do them myself. I know it may not be as accurate, but at least I know it's set the way I want it, considering that I am the one driving the truck every day.

[robnolimit]

Keep this going Doc, good things happenin here.

[BMERDOC]

Thans Rob. It seems to have taken on a life of its own! I dont mind that at all! I'll be modifying my lowers soon also. Then, of course, posting the results. I need to go back to your thread to brush up on what happens to the control arm centers when a lowered spring in installed and what happens to the spindle arm as the caster is adjusted (bumpsteer)

[gringoloco]

Originally Posted by BMERDOC

...I'll be modifying my lowers soon also. Then, of course, posting the results...

Looking VERY forward to this. Thanks for doing this- awesome thread!

[robnolimit]

This is great!!! I can't wait to hear the results, both the alignment, and how it drives. Pretty ecxiting to think that you may have a big improvement in the drive quality, handling, and safety of your truck, for just a few $$ bucks. Great job.

[BMERDOC]

You are right Portmod7, clearly I wasnt paying attention.