Project: AREA|51 [OCD meets ADD]

[DJDAudio]

As the Project title states this project shall be interesting, For I like to think of myself as OCD limited by ADD.. in other words, it has to be perfect... but not for long

A good friend of mine (98layinframe) on here will be working with me on this project, his attention to detail is second to none, on the other-hand, I like to think so far out of the box some times that they often never make it to reality. So while he will spend 3 weeks finding just the right way to lay down a piece of metal, I will walk up after the same 3 weeks and say.."Does it have to be metal?"

So with that aside, Let me give a small intro for those interested.
My Name is Doug and I have come from the 'MiniTruck' World .. ( we where all young and stupid once haha ) I worked on S10's and currently have one.. well hope to sell it off soon to fund this project.

While working on them I grew into the Pneumatic world of air suspension, I liked to find new ways to do things as listed above, and put my own take on it.

Here is my current S10,





And here is where it gets interesting, I designed and have Patent Pending on a compressed air recycling system.

Here is what it looks like,



Where it would normally take 2 min 20 Sec to fill my 5 gal tank from 165-200PSI , The new system does it in 3 seconds!
What does this mean? It means I have almost unlimited air and can 'play' with it constantly at shows.

I hope to employ this system into this project in an even more creative way this go round.

Speaking of if any of you ever have any pneumatic questions related to Valves , compressors and the like let me know always happy to help out, For I work for Air Zenith and have done work with almost every major compressor mfg in the market. I even built a compressor testing station in my lab.

I do not want to muddy up this thread too much, but my current list of 'reviews' and Air ride info can be found here,
http://www.djdlabs.com/FORUM/



And now.. Da Da Da dum.... On with the Project

--------------------------------------------------

IT started way back when I was young wanting one of the early AD trucks. I have always loved the look of the old iron.

Here is a drawing of mine back from 98..

And no my project will not look like that, Dare I give my age away I was 15 at the time and thought all of the old trucks looked like that

Well for some time now I have been trying to find one of these trucks for a good price, ( NOTE: this is very hard when you live in the Steel buckle of the rust belt.. Pittsburgh PA )

Allot of the old trucks I looked at had been sitting in a field for decades and when you open the doors the cap rolls over to meet you haha.

This past weekend a friend of mine ( 98layinframe ) Shot me a E-mail of a truck he found on craigslist.

It was a crude listing with only a few words and 2 pictures.

It was a 1951 3/4 Ton with no bed. 'runs'

Se we made the 1 hour drive out to the middle of PA farm country to take a look at it.

This is what we found when we arrived,



The owner had an old 54' bed that he tossed on the frame for us to take a look at.

So this is where the fun begins.....

[xpickup]

DJDAudio, I like the S10, and the compressed air recycling system sounds great. What will you be using for the motor,frame and suspension(besides air)? Sound like it should be nice. I will be staying tooned.

Shannon

[DJDAudio]

It has your normal 'up north' vent holes :p




And this was the 54' Bed that he had tossed on it.
NOTE: the 3/4 ton truck was a long box. and well the bed is not.
no worries, the frame will not be used.



The past owner looks to have done metal mesh and plaster? as body filler.. still curious as to what this may be.




So the project title is 51' This truck was listed as a 1951... and well it has 52' door handles... hmm the plot thickens...




So I took a look at the 'VIN'



It has KR so that would lead me to believe that is a 52! hmm.. '14' looks to be a MD truck, and 'K' 3/4' Ton.




Surprisingly most of the floor was still there.




Also came to find it has a 90Mph speedometer that would also point to 1952...






May be original... I found the last inspection was in 1990 and it had 9,800 miles on it.





The owner had pulled the carb for another project he had in the works ( he had 3 of these trucks )

But the engine has new plugs a few new wires, new hoses and good oil and coolant in it.... So it may fire up if I can get a carb on it.



Also to my amazement the hood lip was all there and solid.



As well as the hood latch.




And here she is, it was an interesting tow.. I had no idea how heavy these old truck can be! ... they sure don't make them like this anymore.






Also to my surprise it had all new brake lines installed!

One major problem though... the brake pedal went to the floor and all the brakes are locked on.... this made for an interesting job getting it on the trailer and even more so getting it off!



So we had to find a way to jack it up on the trailer and pull off the drums to get her to budge.



The our surprise the drums came off quite easy despite their look.




Forgot to mention we got the guy for $100 to toss in an extra chrome grill, tailgate, and the 54' bed!

The Tailgate is not in that bad of shape, does have a slight bow to it though.



And it fit right on no problem.



Don't see these all too often.









And there she sits awaiting a new life!
This weekend we plan to tear it all down to the bones to see what all we are working with.

[98layinframe]

Yay! He made it over here finally!

Anx sigh... now my truck iz going to take even longer to see the road, cause lets face it.. working on old school iron is much more fun then yet another s10 (built/worked on more of those then I care to think about) Also the fact that its right there in my driveway... doesnt help. Haha
Posted via Mobile Device

[DJDAudio]

Originally Posted by xpickup

DJDAudio, I like the S10, and the compressed air recycling system sounds great. What will you be using for the motor,frame and suspension(besides air)? Sound like it should be nice. I will be staying tooned.

Shannon

Thanks!

The frame will be 2nd Gen Quadcab S10 4X4 chassis. ( purchasing from my friend )

As for the motor, this will be interesting....

A relative a few hours away has a 1967 Lemans that he pulled the running gear from and installed the drive-train from a 2004 GTO donor car.

So when I asked what he was doing with the old equipment he asked why, I told him for a 51 project I have in the works, he said come on out and pick it up its yours! :O

So this Sunday we are making another hour drive out to the middle of PA to pick up,

A 1967 Pontiac 326 H.O. 4 barrel edition, with a freshly rebuilt 350 Auto trans. full headers and exhaust and a few other 'goodies'

May also pull some more parts from the 04 GTO such as seats and brakes. We will see when I get out there.

So how bad is it to toss in an old Pontiac motor in an old Chevy truck? haha

Sure can not argue with the price.


As for the Air ride system,

It will be a hydro-pneumatic system, it will have hydraulic rams at each corner, with lines running to the bed, int he bed will have another ram attached to an airbag in a bracket.

It will be interesting, but do not want to give away too much at present

Even tossed the idea around of motorcycle swing arms in the rear with the axle chain driven and welded to the frame by the cab, this way it could lay out with a flat bed floor! .. Like I said, my ideas as you will see are often out there haha

[DJDAudio]

Originally Posted by 98layinframe

Yay! He made it over here finally!

Anx sigh... now my truck iz going to take even longer to see the road, cause lets face it.. working on old school iron is much more fun then yet another s10 (built/worked on more of those then I care to think about) Also the fact that its right there in my driveway... doesnt help. Haha
Posted via Mobile Device

Yup made it on over, this is a great forum! Nice people and great info!!

And I am sure it is killing you sitting out at your place
Its out your way and I still keep thinking about it all week lol

[xpickup]

DJDAudio, Yes, free/cheap is alway good. As for the air system that really sounds neat. So is it 1 bag pushing 1 cylinder that is moving 4 cylinders at each wheel? Sounds like alot of fabricating which is alway great.


Shannon

[DJDAudio]

Originally Posted by xpickup

DJDAudio, Yes, free/cheap is alway good. As for the air system that really sounds neat. So is it 1 bag pushing 1 cylinder that is moving 4 cylinders at each wheel? Sounds like alot of fabricating which is alway great.


Shannon

It will be a simple set per corner. I will have 5 air bags and 5 cylinders in the bed.

Example,

WHEEL>RAM>LINE>RAM>BAG>TANK

Why 5? Tilt bed of course This one will be different though it will have 1 bag pushing 1 ram, that feeds into (2) other cylinders that lift the bed.

Currently I am researching the life span of the hydraulic cylinder seals, for they will be in constant motion where as most often they stay put, for the fluid does not compress.

[xpickup]

DJDAudio, I wondered, I did not know if there was valves to each wheel or what. It make sense how you are doing it now. That will be trick.


Shannon

[DJDAudio]

So Day1 started like this,



Then started removing parts,



Amazingly bolts came out with minimal trouble.



Expected them to be allot worse.



the inner driver fender.



Dealing with all of the past owners 'fixes' over the years was interesting.



Random old patch panels.. With one bolt almost holding it on haha



Pass side was worse...



Pulled the seat.. and wow, was not expecting it to be in such great shape, the frame and the floor where amazing.



Home made wheel puller



Everything pulled from the front, and the engine even turned over!



All things pulled from the floor.,



Gas tank also in great shape..




Back of seat frame also in good shape.



Anyone know anything about this old turn signal assembly?





Pulled the plugs to be sure the motor was clear,




Glad I got another gill, this one was pretty rough



Rad was still full of coolant!






Look at those springs and frame, amazing shape!

Think there is any resale value?



Remember those cab corners with plaster?

Um this all came out of one corner!!



And the other corner... wow




then pulled the trim, to find some good metal behind.



The old bolts did not want to budge on the bed, so out with the grinder..





And the bed off the frame. Friend of mine spent some good time dolling and straightening the metal. ... That is some thick sheet!




The 3/4 ton frame.

[DJDAudio]

Day 2,






Here is the 03' S10 Quad cab frame I picked up from a friend for the project.
( We will have to shorten it. )

How we do it will be interesting.. stay tuned

And for those with a good eye, yes this is a 4X4 chassis .. Evil grin... >: )

And for the score of the century...

After another long drive out to a different part in the middle of PA we arrived at a distant uncle's place. ( so remote they did not even have cell reception! )



That is a 1967 Lemans in the background, that now has a new Ls engine from a 2004GTO donor car. The old engine? That is what is being loaded into my truck.

It is a 1967 326 H.O. Motor matted to a Turbo 350 with only 5K on it!



The long ride back I kept looking in the mirror haha





Also came with a set of headers! .... That may actually work with this build haha



The trans was in good shape. The motor looked to have some goodies on it, I could see a holly 4 barrel and edelbrock intake, but will know more as I tear into it.



And thank you GM for being lazy on design!
The 03 S10 Driveshaft fit right into the trans! score.



Packed the hood up to take back to my shop to get some body work done on it.

So that wraps up this weekend.

Now to just buy a boatload of patch panels and sheet metal

[98layinframe]

Boy that friend of yours sure is a nice guy! And good thing he's a hoarder of truck parts and has all these parts and frames laying around. Haha
Posted via Mobile Device

[DJDAudio]

Yea he is I will have to introduce you too some time :p haha

[Maximus]

Cool build. Alot of work ahead! but thats the fun of it all....
Nice score on the Poncho engine. My 1955 2nd series has a trans-am front clip. I felt bad about destroying the trans-am so I made up for it by using the entire drivetrain. It has a H.O. 400CI Pontiac and BW Super T-10, Also used the rear axle. The handfull of drives the truck has made has let me know that a huge pontiac block has adequate torque for a stubby 1950's pickup! Cool project!

[_Ogre]

nice score on the motor, trans and frame, makes up for a rough body
pontiac in a chevy? it's your project, stock to full custom, we like them all

19,000 original miles on 62 yr old truck is probably correct
while we like to think they made them better back then... they didn't
a motor always leaked oil/coolant. they burned oil @ 15k to 20k miles and they were shot @ 24k miles
the body started rusting @ 5000 and you can see what they looked like at 19k at least in the rust belt

can you imagine a 100k drive train warranty back then?

most new motors will go 300k without any trouble as the new 5 and 6 speed aod does all the work
the trans might not last but most go 150k without trouble too
when i worked i put 40k/yr on my truck, my last truck had 204k on it when i traded it

good luck on the build

[98layinframe]

Yeah he's been pretty lucky so far with things working out with the build. I've been saving parts for awhile from all the old s10's I tore apart. The donated mechanicals were all from first gens, and the frame is an 02 s10 quad cab that was also parted out.

Were both sunburnt and tired today... but a good bit of progress was made this weekend. I'm sure Doug will update when he gets a chance.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DJDAudio]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

nice score on the motor, trans and frame, makes up for a rough body
pontiac in a chevy? it's your project, stock to full custom, we like them all

19,000 original miles on 62 yr old truck is probably correct
while we like to think they made them better back then... they didn't
a motor always leaked oil/coolant. they burned oil @ 15k to 20k miles and they were shot @ 24k miles
the body started rusting @ 5000 and you can see what they looked like at 19k at least in the rust belt

can you imagine a 100k drive train warranty back then?

most new motors will go 300k without any trouble as the new 5 and 6 speed aod does all the work
the trans might not last but most go 150k without trouble too
when i worked i put 40k/yr on my truck, my last truck had 204k on it when i traded it

good luck on the build

You make some mighty fine points there! Engineering has brought trucks along way since the 50's in terms of dependability.
Just wish they would slightly over engineer things still. Today with all of the formulas and modeling, they built things just strong 'enough' to work

[DJDAudio]

Originally Posted by 98layinframe

Yeah he's been pretty lucky so far with things working out with the build. I've been saving parts for awhile from all the old s10's I tore apart. The donated mechanicals were all from first gens, and the frame is an 02 s10 quad cab that was also parted out.

Were both sunburnt and tired today... but a good bit of progress was made this weekend. I'm sure Doug will update when he gets a chance.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yea, sore and sun burnt.. ahh getting up for work was rough today. That and the Torsion bar to the foot was not a help either haha

Pics of the progress on the way.

[DJDAudio]

Day 3 Started with pulling the S10 frame up from the weeds and up into the driveway to start work.

The Chain I had was slightly overkill






Goofing around, Yup, the fenders fit



We spent a few hours getting the frame up and leveled out completely, and welded in lower 2X3 1/4" wall tubing for the DIY frame table.



Then we welded on legs to support the frame for when we cut it.



And cut.... I cut it twice and it is still too short?



We then placed it on more 2X3" tube to raise it up 3" uniformly.



Then sectioned the frame so it can slide together and shorten by 6"



And test fit together ... This took allot of 'trimming' and test fitting to get it just right.





I even took a stab at some of the welding.. Not used to using one so little haha,

NOTE: the top and bottom rails will be cut down on an angle, and gussets made and formed it, then plates will be welded to the outside to reinforce the joint. .. It will be strong!



So that brings Day 3 to a close...

[DJDAudio]

Day 4,



Started by getting the motor up and ready to go in to make some mounts,



That and a make shift tent was in order, for we where both very burnt by this point.



The stock frame had allot of random brackets, so allot are gone, but more have to go at this point, like the old 4.3 mounts.



Test fit, and the torsion bars hit the headers... So they have to go.

... More pics uploading..

[DJDAudio]

Torsion bars being cut out, They would not pound out of the arms, they rusted themselves in good

Dropped one on my foot, they are heavy.. been hobbling around all day today haha



And gone, And you ca see my awesome grind job on the frame to prep for the motor mounts. hmm the smell of burning undercoat.



Random brackets and old engine mounts removed.



Cut down the stock Lemans cross member to prep it to fit the new S10 chassis.



We made some 1/4" wall box tubing frame mounts that it sits on, we will then drill out holes so it can bolt into place.



The double bumps will allow the dual exhaust to exit nicely.



The Pontiac motor mounts are interesting, so had to make some custom bits.



Made some thick wall sleeved tubing mounts.



Then made some quick cardboard templates and fabbed up some 1/4" plate mounts for the motor.



Tacked in and holding, Next up make some upper plates to box them in.
Should make for a nice solid mount.



Random person driving by stopped and asked if we needed a fender. ( what are the odds! ) so we went and picked it up for $100. That was an amazing stroke of luck haha



And here is the amazing thing, we where able to use all stock bits for the drive-train! , think about that for a moment, we got a 326 Pontiac motor working in a 4X4 S10 chassis with no mods to the drive gear.







And here by 10PM Sunday is where we are at,
Frame shorted 6" , sectioned up 3" , motor mounts fabbed and tranny crosmember fabbed. Rolling chassis complete!


I think it is now fair to say, this will be the only 326 Pontiac motor in a 4X4 S10 chassis out there

[msaintg]

wow, you are really going at it. More power to you. Forgive me, but I am confused.... I don't get why you cut off the tortion bars.... what are you going to do for springs up front? What keeps the front wheels from falling off with no spindles? How did you figure out where the engine needed to go without the cab in place? Why did you section the frame and offset it 3" where you did? What is the advantage of using the S10 4x4 frame?

[AspecialZ]

Hey Doug, welcome to the page, glad to have you. Looks like Dave and you have quite a bit of workl ahead of you. Let me know if I can be of assistance in anyway!

[DJDAudio]

Originally Posted by msaintg

wow, you are really going at it. More power to you. Forgive me, but I am confused.... I don't get why you cut off the tortion bars.... what are you going to do for springs up front? What keeps the front wheels from falling off with no spindles? How did you figure out where the engine needed to go without the cab in place? Why did you section the frame and offset it 3" where you did? What is the advantage of using the S10 4x4 frame?

So many questions Let me see if I can address them all.

We removed the torsion bars because they where in the way. I had plans to static the truck for a while to enjoy it, but they just needed to go for room.

The truck will have Air Ride suspension so will have either an airbag up front on the lower control arm, or a hydropnumatic setup. Either way no need for the old torsion setup any longer.

The spindles are still there they are a one piece hub bearing assembly with just the front axles removed, they are still solid in place.

The nice part was the cab was still sitting on its original frame next to us, so we measured from the back of the stock 6 to the center of the front axle.
We then took this measurement and set the motor in the S10 frame to have the back most part at the same point in relation to the front axle line. So with a wider 'bump' in the firewall the new motor should fit nicely and clear a fan on the rad.


The frame was raised 3" to clear the rear axle. For with air ride I would like to have the truck flat on the ground at shows, so this requires the axle to go up into the stock frame, so instead of notching the frame like most, we just moved the entire rear frame section up 3" to clear. So the nice factory 'bump' in the frame will look like a nice custom notch. This also will raise the bed floor up nicely to clear all of the components underneath. And keep the rear diff from pocking up into the bed floor.

The 4X4 S10 chassis is so much better then the 2WD S10 chassis.

Here is a 2WD S10 chassis,



And here is a 4WD Frame,



As you can see the 2WD frame has a large cross member right where the oil pan needs to go. Also the control arms are angled and pulled more to the center of the frame. All of this makes fitting a V8 tight. Also the geometry of the front arms and steering make for more sportscar like setup, as well as better camber curves as the suspension travels. Just an all around better setup. also they come with 4 wheel disk brakes, and larger front dual piston brakes. ... and the frame is thicker and stronger. I could go on and on haha, It was my Friends idea to run this frame and the more I work with it the more I love it over my old 2WD chassis.

Oh one other nice feature is the wider track width of the front wheels, no need to run a thick front wheel spacer

[DJDAudio]

Originally Posted by AspecialZ

Hey Doug, welcome to the page, glad to have you. Looks like Dave and you have quite a bit of workl ahead of you. Let me know if I can be of assistance in anyway!

Scott!!

Thanks man!

I need patch panels lots of them cheap haha

Shoot me an email if you can DJD(AT)DJDLABS(DOTCOM)
I have a part number list all ready for all the panels I need lol

Do you have a build thread on any of your AD trucks?