Restoration insanity

[cj847]

I am starting this thread to hopefully get input from others with experience. I am going to list some common 'errors' that people make when restoring vehicles. Of course, it will be riddled with opinions, which is OK.
So, I will start:

1) Buying glue on door seal sets (vs push on). When you include the cost of glue, they are within $5 of each other. At least 80% of folks can't successfully glue them to the cab anyway.

2) Buying all your parts at the start of the project. See facebook and craigslist, "Truck project for sale, includes sheet metal, rubber, wire harness etc". Point is, don't get in over your head.

3) Building your engine first. Why have 5-20k invested in an engine that is going to sit for 2 years while you build the truck?

4) Sheet metal pieces. The aftermarket is flush with components for our trucks. Why replace an inner and outer door bottom when you can buy a whole door shell. I get the fitment arguments people make, but fitment and warpage due to huge lengths of weld seams is just as bad.

5) Depending on a friend or relative. Don't do it. Noone wants to work on your junk more than a day or two. If you can't do it yourself, budget for a professional.

[tutone]

The audience that you are speaking to is a biased group of folks. I have no way of knowing, but it is my belief that 80 to 90 % of the regular posters on this forum have the skills needed to start a project and see it through. My only problem is that I do not like to restore them. I like to build them, modify them, and then either drive it or move on.
Seeing something shiny while in the middle of a build is what always gets me. I like to have the next project on deck. About the only thing I can add to your list is this.
Study, learn and be able to identify good work and buy the most complete project available. That said, because of today's parts availability. I have waited on simple parts to get mine on the road for a month or more.

[67C10Step]

Originally Posted by cj847

I am starting this thread to hopefully get input from others with experience. I am going to list some common 'errors' that people make when restoring vehicles. Of course, it will be riddled with opinions, which is OK.
So, I will start:

1) Buying glue on door seal sets (vs push on). When you include the cost of glue, they are within $5 of each other. At least 80% of folks can't successfully glue them to the cab anyway.

2) Buying all your parts at the start of the project. See facebook and craigslist, "Truck project for sale, includes sheet metal, rubber, wire harness etc". Point is, don't get in over your head.

3) Building your engine first. Why have 5-20k invested in an engine that is going to sit for 2 years while you build the truck?

4) Sheet metal pieces. The aftermarket is flush with components for our trucks. Why replace an inner and outer door bottom when you can buy a whole door shell. I get the fitment arguments people make, but fitment and warpage due to huge lengths of weld seams is just as bad.

5) Depending on a friend or relative. Don't do it. Noone wants to work on your junk more than a day or two. If you can't do it yourself, budget for a professional.

Some solid advice here. When I got my truck it was gonna be a quick 6-12 months to get it running and driving. Well, three years and much scope creep later I finally have a driver quality truck.

[sick472]

I have changed my attack on my next project, maybe cause I'm more patient in my older age, but most of it comes from wisdom due to that old age. Here's my new plan of attack for the project...

In short, take it apart small areas at a time fixing, restoring, and buying the pieces as I go so that shortly after the last part comes off...all the previous parts are ready to go back on.

In long,

Instead of getting real excited and taking the whole thing apart right at the beginning and then scattering it all over the shop, stuffed in to boxes, and piled in buckets...I have been taking pieces off and restoring them as I go, then packaging them up nice for storage. For the items that are too far gone, I add them to the "2 Buy" list, look for good used parts, or buy new. These found or purchased parts are then stored with the re-conditioned parts ready for install. Some things don't make sense to buy and store for the duration of the project (like upholstery and carpet), but other things make sense to buy well ahead of time to avoid all the Out-Of-Stock problems the world is having. I am at a point of the project where the body is off the frame and the chassis is a roller...most all the items that have been removed are ready to go back on. My goal is to get to the point where it's all assembly and nothing else...saving the excitement for the very last without delay due to parts that need to be cleaned up/repaired, missing parts, or back orders. The last item to be sub assembled will be the motor. Once it is complete...the thing should go back together pretty fast.

Wish me luck!

[toolboxchev]

The term "scope creep" is well suited for the subject of restoration. I do not think that tons of folks start something only to just discover that its too much for them. I believe lots of LIFE events happen in the process which changes outcomes of what people sought out to do.

I am one such of those individuals now changing directives in which what suits my current growing skills and life course.

[71meangreenc10]

I have been wrenching on these for almost 30 years. I do help out my C10 brothers and sisters when asked. I try to give them the best advice from my experiences with these trucks. Restoring vs Regenerate is what I see. I have done a frame off nut and bolt restoration and I have got daily drivers back on the road. The biggest issue most folks face when taking on a project is BUDGET. What I mean is people will have this great vision and do not have the finances to support it. It is the Steak request on a Bologna budget mentality. Some folks have no idea and if they cant do it themselves Labor Rates will smoke that budget. Budget is the first thing I talk to folks about and gets me so irritated when they agree, then come back and start to nickle and dime everything.... This alone is a reason I start to walk away more from folks.

I can address some of your points and there are others that can add or subtract from my points.

1. Door seals. Big pain in the rear. I have yet get a new set of push on seals that did not require lots of time to make them work on a running truck. You are correct on the glue seals.

2. Good points, just have the ability to organize and store your parts if you do pre-buy. Nothing worse than buying something again cause you couldn't find it in that rats nest of parts in your shed.

3. I would tell people to forecast as much as you can. It is really hard today with all the drama we face in supply chain fun. Nothing worse than waiting months after something to get finished cause it has your movement stuck in its tracks.

4. Sheet metal work is painful no matter what. Fitment issues with doors is the number one reason I don't want them. My buddy just spent a ton of $$$ for some reproduction burb doors and he is a very good metal guy. His burb body was very straight and those new doors were just awful. Luckily for him I had a door and it fixed his issue with very little adjustment needed along with a new skin on the passenger door. The latest batch of cab corners are very fun to install along with the rockers. One thing I will say is that the thickness of the panels is getting better.

5. This goes back to my initial point, lack of planning for a budget is going get you sooner or later. Depending on family or friends can only make your relationships get strained one way or another.

Too many folks watch so much TV or view youtube and get the idea that anything is possible. Then they destroy more or put more people at risk with their lack of competence of automotive repair. I have a few examples of horrible shortcuts that were done on a few of my trucks and looks to be the norm now cause folks only see that $$$ they could make on that flip.

I would post more of what I am doing now, but just aint fun trying to resize a hundred pics.

Thoughts?

Smitty

[jabborabbo]

I started on a restoration of my 1971 Triumph Daytona (that I bought in 1972 when I was 14) about 25 years ago - it’s still in pieces. I would add to the list a few things:

1. DON’T pinch pennies

2. DON’T let perfect be the enemy of good or the enemy of driveable.

3. DON’T have too many projects going simultaneously (my biggest problem).

[71meangreenc10]

Originally Posted by jabborabbo

I started on a restoration of my 1971 Triumph Daytona (that I bought in 1972 when I was 14) about 25 years ago - it’s still in pieces. I would add to the list a few things:

1. DON’T pinch pennies

2. DON’T let perfect be the enemy of good or the enemy of driveable.

3. DON’T have too many projects going simultaneously (my biggest problem).

#3 is getting me right now....

Smitty

[purple gas]

I got my '67 GMC from a buddy for $350.00. ( $50 less than the receipt for the new windshield I found in the glove box). This was about 20 yrs ago.
He got all inspired by a project I had done on a VW beetle.
( Complete tear down, gobs of new parts, real nice car when I was done, Magazine car some co workers called it).
He got as far as smoking a few doobbies, taking the truck apart, loosing lots of stuff, other things got stolen. Then it sat in his yard with some other " projects" until the City sent him a bylaw letter telling him to clean up his yard.
I dragged it home, it was a shell. I bought a donor " hippy van" my kids called it and had it running & driving in a few months.
I'm of the mindset it's not " where do you start" but " when do you stop" when approaching a vehicle.
You have to be ruthlessly honest with yourself.
What is your skill set?
What is your budget?
Do you have the ambition?
What is your finished product goal.
My truck is all about low budget, summer part time driver, no worry about parking lot door ding level machine.
That was my goal, that's what I got.

[FleetsidePaul]

Originally Posted by 71meangreenc10

#3 is getting me right now....

Smitty

Oh yeah! Same here. We need to start a support group. The too many projects club.

Or as my wife would say. We could call it the WTF is the matter with you club.

[67C10Step]

This thread just reminded me of making a guy mad at me a few years ago. It was a coworker I really didn't know well but he was taking another job and was moving. He had a project motorcycle he wanted to sell and I was known as being a bike guy so someone sent him to me. Here is how our conversation went:

Him: Hey, I am moving and have a bike I'd like to sell.
Me: Cool, what you got?
Him: A 1974 Harley Sportster. I took it all apart to the bare frame a few years ago for a restoration and I never got around to it. Not sure what it's worth though but all the parts are there.
Me: Well, I can tell you I would come pick it up and get it out of your way but I wouldn't pay you much at all over a few hundred bucks.
Him (irritated): Why's that?
Me: Well, to tell you the truth, I am not the end of the rainbow guy but the guy that gets it there. I know what it is going to take and no bike apart that long still has all the parts there in my experience. Not to mention that is not the top year or model Harley. So, it's just not worth that much to me. Perhaps you should spend a weekend putting it back together as a non-runner and put an ad to sell it. You'd get more.
Him: Walked off fuming

[KQQL IT]

An enthusiastic kid helps.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by purple gas

He got as far as smoking a few doobbies

That’s about as far as most get before throwing it back on Craigslist.

[Grumpy old man]

Don't bolt $3,000.00 worth of drop suspension to a rotted out frame cut long bed with a $300. 00 junk yard LS and spider web wiring and think it's "Patina" is worth $20,000.00

[SkidmoreGarage]

I'd only add that everyone should do a real budget spreadsheet (including the price of the truck) before you start your project. Then double that number and put the money aside. If this number doesn't scare you or exceed the value of the completed project, then you are ready to start. If you find yourself thinking you can dumpster dive your way into doing it for less, you are statistically likely never to finish. It all adds up. If you have access to a dozen parts trucks rotting into the ground, you already paid upfront. If you don't, you will be nickel and dimed to death. If you aren't typically strong in personal finance, take a second to learn a bit and it will pay you back for the rest of your life.

Also, don't strip it all back to bare metal unless you've done it before. See my point above and call a few paint shops to get some quotes. Every time I see a "$30k+ invested, needs paint and assembly" truck for sale for $20k, I know it will never sell. It's probably worth less than half that. If it was original and worn out with a new engine, it would probably sell for $15k.

[jabborabbo]

Originally Posted by 67C10Step

You: … Perhaps you should spend a weekend putting it back together as a non-runner and put an ad to sell it. You'd get more.
Him: Walked off fuming

You gave him fine advice - I could triple or quadruple the sale price of mine if I did that…but I’ve had the damn thing so long and went through puberty on the bike without killing myself, and during disassembly I took copious notes and sketches (cell phone cameras didn’t exist then) even to the extent of measuring the head, diameter, length and screw pitch of every bolt and nut, and noting any markings on the head of every bolt….

[71meangreenc10]

Originally Posted by FleetsidePaul

Oh yeah! Same here. We need to start a support group. The too many projects club.

Or as my wife would say. We could call it the WTF is the matter with you club.

Oh yeah, and my wife watching these auctions on TV is making her mad at me. She says, "You need to get these things finished and sold, I want to retire NOW!!"

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

Don't bolt $3,000.00 worth of drop suspension to a rotted out frame cut long bed with a $300. 00 junk yard LS and spider web wiring and think it's "Patina" is worth $20,000.00

I see this all the time. A lot of adds on FB and CL for cutting down conversions going on around here.

Smitty

[indymachinist]

I don’t love the cut frames either but honestly, who cares? These slammed trucks almost always have the frame cut up to do C notches anyway. Whats two more cuts?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 71meangreenc10

Oh yeah, and my wife watching these auctions on TV is making her mad at me. She says, "You need to get these things finished and sold, I want to retire NOW!!"


Smitty

I made the mistake one time of mentioning to my wife how much my GTO might be worth.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...-still-family/

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990396621018


Now I catch her giving it the side-eye when she thinks I'm not looking.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by cj847

5) Depending on a friend or relative. Don't do it. Noone wants to work on your junk more than a day or two. If you can't do it yourself, budget for a professional.

After 60 years - I am just now coming around on this one.

My dad always had a buddy he could rely on, especially for paint/body work. And it always took forever.

I'm to the point now that I hire it out, so that I can lean on the shop (in good conscious) if things start to slow down.

When I had the red truck painted I ask them for one week to do the cab/front end sheet metal and, about a month later, one week to do the box.

They honored that request. That put the build back in my control and, after starting in May I was done done done by September that same year.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by sick472

I have changed my attack on my next project, maybe cause I'm more patient in my older age, but most of it comes from wisdom due to that old age. Here's my new plan of attack for the project...

In short, take it apart small areas at a time fixing, restoring, and buying the pieces as I go so that shortly after the last part comes off...all the previous parts are ready to go back on.

Wish me luck!

This is how I did my tractor.

I did the wheels first, then the front end, then back as far as the bellhousing, then the back.

It took me as long to do the sheetmetal (hood, radiator cover and gas tank) as the whole rest of the tractor.

But it kept me motivated and I got it done.

K

[leftybass209]

Make sure you can register it in your respective state BEFORE you invest any money in it.

I see a lot of basket cases getting brought into California. Swapping cab and frame can get you into a pickle with a VIN officer if they care about continuity; mine did.

[71meangreenc10]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

I made the mistake one time of mentioning to my wife how much my GTO might be worth.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...-still-family/

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990396621018


Now I catch her giving it the side-eye when she thinks I'm not looking.

K

I get the same with my SWB 71. I told my wife I was going to sell it and she said "No".....I still see the look every now and then....

Smitty

[yuccales]

Originally Posted by KQQL IT

An enthusiastic kid helps.

Great picture.

[jumpsoffrock]

Be ok with rust. Just drive it as is.