Inline 6 is really tired

[Asshat]

1963 C20, 292 inline 6, stock distributor with Pertronix, 1bbl Rochester carb, 5-speed T5
Just drove this thing about 20 miles; pretty warm out today. Thing is, it’s gutless!! No power, climbing up a gradual incline is not good. After a few miles, the temperature started creeping up. Once I turned around, and started going downhill, it cooled off. When driving around town, the temperature is ok, always stays on the far left of the gauge.

And, these brakes drag- coming up to a stop light, I can feel it holding back when in neutral. If it’s level ground, it comes to a stop like my foot is on the brake. If it’s a slight incline, it stops, then starts to roll backwards.
Can’t wait to get that front end in here with disc brakes.

[Asshat]

I read other post, and some people changed the orientation of their carb; mine is a 1bbl, so I don’t think that would be it.

[Tom]

If the brakes are truely dragging then is the engine really tired or just being held back by brakes?

[Asshat]

Regarding checking the valve lash adjust, is it ok to check it statically? By turning engine over until both valves of the cylinder are closed and spinning the pushrod between your fingers?
Hate doing it while it’s running, such a mess. There’s always a pushrod that is spewing oil everywhere.

[geezer#99]

Make a wall from cardboard to stop oil splashes.
When setting them you should wiggle the rockers to get any slack out. Twisting the rods isn’t accurate.

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Make a wall from cardboard to stop oil splashes.
When setting them you should wiggle the rockers to get any slack out. Twisting the rods isn’t accurate.

Why is the twisting not accurate? All the online write-ups say to do it this way.
A while back, I tried the running method, I just couldn’t tell which valve was making noise.

[geezer#99]

There are some knuckle draggers like me who can still twist the pushrods when the valve is wide open.
More accurate with wiggling them.

[geezer#99]

What’s your initial timing?

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

what’s your initial timing?

6-8 btdc.

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by Tom

If the brakes are truely dragging then is the engine really tired or just being held back by brakes?

If that was the case, I would be really slowing down between shifts. It’s not dragging that much. It still coasts to a stop when coming to a light.

[Asshat]

Plugs look pretty good.

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by Asshat

6-8 btdc.

Shouldn’t be a problem bumping up to 14.
My last 250 ran perfect there.

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

There are some knuckle draggers like me who can still twist the pushrods when the valve is wide open.
More accurate with wiggling them.

I resemble that remark.

Usually trying to twist a chromoly oil soaked pushrod between your oil soaked greasy fingers, you don't realize that the rod is actually slipping between your fingers as pressure is put on the rod as you tighten the rocker nut. Leads to having too much preload added to your adjustment. So wiggling them up and down is usually more accurate to know when all lash is taken out.

After doing this for almost 40 years, I wiggle them up and down until I can't feel anymore lash, and then gently twist them too.

Gary

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

I resemble that remark.

Usually trying to twist a chromoly oil soaked pushrod between your oil soaked greasy fingers, you don't realize that the rod is actually slipping between your fingers as pressure is put on the rod as you tighten the rocker nut. Leads to having too much preload added to your adjustment. So wiggling them up and down is usually more accurate to know when all lash is taken out.

After doing this for almost 40 years, I wiggle them up and down until I can't feel anymore lash, and then gently twist them too.

Gary

I was able to confirm the valve lash last night, all valves were pretty close to where they should be. I’m going to purchase a donor valve cover, so I can cut the top off.
I’m confident the valves are not the issue. I’ll advance the timing next; we’ll see how that goes. I’ll also check the brakes, however, I’m pretty sure they’re not dragging that bad. It’s just annoying as hell.

[geezer#99]

Don’t cut the top off.
12 holes works better.

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Don’t cut the top off.
12 holes works better.

I’ll need a template!

That's a pretty good idea. I'll have to take some measurements, next time I pull the valve cover. Unless, someone knows the dimensions??

Would be even better if there was a plug that could be put back in place to seal up the hole.

[Asshat]

I advanced the timing and replaced the front drums. Seems to be running a little, better but hard to tell. Still doesn’t pull up the grade.
And, the brakes are not dragging now.

Wondering if I should bother putting any more money into this motor; thinking I should start putting money away for a 383 stroker.

[geezer#99]

What gear are you in when pulling the grade?

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

What gear are you in when pulling the grade?

5th with a 4:10.
If I drop down into 4th, I’ll be at about 2800 rpm.

[geezer#99]

That’s about right!
You got no torque.
Even at 2800 your tired motor doesn’t have enough torque.
Do you have a vacuum gauge set up to see how much vac you got at different times while driving.

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

That’s about right!
You got no torque.
Even at 2800 your tired motor doesn’t have enough torque.
Do you have a vacuum gauge set up to see how much vac you got at different times while driving.

I’ll have to try that; I think I have a vacuum gauge somewhere.

[geezer#99]

I’ve set a gauge up on the left side of the dash close to the pillar. Easy to see at a glance.
Try to drive at the highest vac reading.

[Asshat]

I drove it down to Donut Derelicts this morning, and it just has absolutely no guts. Just sad. It cruises along well, it’s just gutless. Hate to spend money on a carburetor and an exhaust system if it’s all in vain. Maybe I’m better spending the money on a carbureted LS motor.

Pretty amazing cars there.

[AussieinNC]

Chevrolet 292 engines achieved a maximum 165 gross-horsepower at 3,800 rpm and netted 147 horsepower at 3,600 rpm.

It reached its maximum gross torque of 280 pound-feet at 1,600 rpm and netted 262 pound-feet of torque at 2,000 rpm.

Your engine with the 5th gear ratio of either .73 or .80 is right around the torque net range value of 2040 rpm (.73) or 2240 if using the .80 version of the T5.

These trucks were fitted with 4.11 rears to accommodate the relatively low torque figures of the six vs the V8....

Add in the age of the engine, the weight of the truck and its high level of drag...

A 4.11 rear gear equates to a 3.00 rear gear if using the .73 version of the T5
A 4.11 rear gear equates to 3.28 if using the .80 version of the T5.

You have a "normal" aged six cylinder truck....

A swap to a 350 and auto will improve the performance....

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

Chevrolet 292 engines achieved a maximum 165 gross-horsepower at 3,800 rpm and netted 147 horsepower at 3,600 rpm.

It reached its maximum gross torque of 280 pound-feet at 1,600 rpm and netted 262 pound-feet of torque at 2,000 rpm.

Your engine with the 5th gear ratio of either .73 or .80 is right around the torque net range value of 2040 rpm (.73) or 2240 if using the .80 version of the T5.

These trucks were fitted with 4.11 rears to accommodate the relatively low torque figures of the six vs the V8....

Add in the age of the engine, the weight of the truck and its high level of drag...

A 4.11 rear gear equates to a 3.00 rear gear if using the .73 version of the T5
A 4.11 rear gear equates to 3.28 if using the .80 version of the T5.

You have a "normal" aged six cylinder truck....

A swap to a 350 and auto will improve the performance....

So, are you saying a swap to a GMC 305 V6 or V8 would not do much with the same T5 transmission? Why would I need to put in an automatic?

And, a normal aged six cylinder is going to be gutless and have no power to go up hills?

Is a V6 305E worth $300? Local one here, may need rebuild. Not sure if these motors are worth investing, since they are rare, a lot harder to find parts for it.