Cams......decisions decisions

[Tilt]

I'm trying to decide on a cam/stall so I can get everything ordered and start getting the truck put back together. I've talked to Texas Speed & Performance and Tick Performance, and both recommended different cams based on the same info I gave them on the truck/motor/use. I tend to go OCD on stuff like this and have a hard time deciding. Not to mention, I know absolutely nothing about choosing cams. I want to do it right the first time and not have to do it over again. Let me get some of your opinions. The truck is an '86 step side, roughly 4000lbs, maybe a little less, 4l80 and 3.73 gears with 29.8-30.5" tires. The motor is an LQ9 with 799 heads, CIA, 1.75" long tubes, dual 3" exhaust with probably 2 chamber flowmasters. Stock truck intake, fuel rails, & injectors. I'm not going for an all out super high RPM race truck, just a fast, fun street toy that sounds bad a$$.
TS&P recommended their 228R cam 228/228 .588/.588 112
Tick recommended a 231/235 .630/.600 111+2 cam
What is your opinion on these two cams and any suggestions on other cams?

[BR3W CITY]

I like my TSP cam, but the #'s on the Tick sound better to me. IIRC, both are ground on Comp XER bases. They'll be hard on valvesprings after 8-10k miles, but they ramp hard and are still a good cam base.

[t-tung]

I'm going with the TSP 228R 114lsa in a 5.3 and 3000 CircleD stall in a 4L60E. Haven't weighed my truck but I'm running 31" tall tires, 3.73s, TSP longtubes and going to do some work on the heads. That cam had been recommended by several different people. Going from stock to this I'm sure I'll be happy with it and drivability is supposed to be good. Decent vacuum for my brakes.

[homemade87]

The 228r cam will be a good choice . It will have a nice chop at idle as well . You may want to reconsider your exhaust if you have not bought yet . It will most likely make your engine loose its low end torque potential . That 3" system would be more suited for high hp and 7000 + rpm engines . 1-7/8 headers and a dual 2-1/2" system would be great for you and still sound bad ass and give you that torque in lower rpm .

I have a ls2 with a 225/229 581/591 114 and has a nice lope idle and runs like crazy . This engine put down 380hp at the wheels with stock 243 heads . I am running a 2-1/2 dual exhaust system .

[Tilt]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

They'll be hard on valvesprings after 8-10k miles, but they ramp hard and are still a good cam base.

Would it be beneficial to move up to a higher lift dual spring? Or would it just be money wasted?

Originally Posted by homemade87

You may want to reconsider your exhaust if you have not bought yet . It will most likely make your engine loose its low end torque potential . That 3" system would be more suited for high hp and 7000 + rpm engines . 1-7/8 headers and a dual 2-1/2" system would be great for you and still sound bad ass and give you that torque in lower rpm .

I have a ls2 with a 225/229 581/591 114 and has a nice lope idle and runs like crazy . This engine put down 380hp at the wheels with stock 243 heads . I am running a 2-1/2 dual exhaust system .

I have the headers already, but haven't bought anything else. The 350-400rwhp range is kinda what I was shooting for. I know the 4l80 will eat up a little more than your 4l60, but I should be still be about where I wanted to be.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by Tilt

Would it be beneficial to move up to a higher lift dual spring? Or would it just be money wasted?

Over .600 and you'll want to consider running a dual spring. The thing is, under either situation, the valve springs will eventually wear. XER lobes have an aggressive ramp, which is fine for making power but isn't gentle on the springs.

Its just part of the game really. Even stock valve springs wear out, but the low seat pressure and lack of RPM mean you won't see many stock use engines floating valves. If you cammed the same engine and tried to run it outright, you'd float very quickly.

[tinydb84]

I like the tick cam. The tighter LSA and advance ground in will give you a nice low-mid range. It will lope more than the TSP cam too (I love lope).

Did either of them recommend a stall converter?

Brew: don't they recommend checking your valve springs annually with the cams using those lobes?

[Tilt]

TSP recommended a Yank 3200 stal for the 228R. Tick didn't.

[Tilt]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Over .600 and you'll want to consider running a dual spring. The thing is, under either situation, the valve springs will eventually wear. XER lobes have an aggressive ramp, which is fine for making power but isn't gentle on the springs.

Its just part of the game really. Even stock valve springs wear out, but the low seat pressure and lack of RPM mean you won't see many stock use engines floating valves. If you cammed the same engine and tried to run it outright, you'd float very quickly.

I know the higher lift cams would need the higher lift double springs. I guess what I was trying to say is, If I went with the 228R would it be worth it to go to the higher lift double spring? Since they wouldn't be near as close to their limit, would they maybe last longer?

[dkauffman05]

I'd go with the tick cam that Martin probably designed. And get the Brian tooley dual spring kit. 228r is a good cam also but imo Martin is the man For a custom not "off the shelf " cam.

[tinydb84]

Brian Tooley makes a number of different cams and you can get a kit with everything probably for a bit cheaper too.

[Tilt]

I shot a quick email to TSP asking about the differences in the two cams. Of course they are sticking by their cam. They did recommend a stall around 3600 for the Tick cam. They also said the drive ability of the Tick cam would be worse.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by tinydb84

Brew: don't they recommend checking your valve springs annually with the cams using those lobes?

IIRC the last time it came up the guy from comp told me 7-12k miles (which I suppose would be a year for most regular use vehicles). There are a few less aggressive and hybrid lobes which are becoming more popular on the newer stuff and is less prone to wear...but any high lift/high rpm/high seat pressure setup will wear them out eventually.

I've got around 11k on mine, and while they still work, we don't run this engine to its brink very often (and I have a set of Brian Tooley Titanium springs etc in the new heads waiting to go on). My guy has a newer lobe design he's trying out with decent results. We've had a couple cams that were drawn up for boost but have actually made really nice n/a power (smaller overlap etc, but still very snappy).

[NorCalAnthony]

Just wanted to add real quick that you can request whatever cam core and lobe profile you want from Martin at Tick. There are newer cam profiles out there that make a ton of power without beating the valve train to death and can save you a lot of money on springs and other wear items. I've talked to him a few times and had him spec a custom cam for my 5.3 swap and the guy really knows his stuff and is more than willing to explain every little detail to you if you want. Whichever cam you decide to go with just be sure to talk to the vendor about getting the proper springs so it’ll be a matched set.

A rocker trunion upgrade might also be a good idea while you’re at to help the stockers hold up to the higher lift and more aggressive ramp rate of the new cam shaft. Comp Cams, Summit, Brian Tooley, and a few others make one now but the Tooley version looks to be the best option (cheaper than some of the others but with better quality steel).

[Tilt]

Well, after my conversation with Martin at Tick, I'm going with his recommendation. I got most everything ordered this morning. I'm sure I'll find some small things I forgot, but I should have everything to get the truck back together. I still need to have the emc flashed and get a new harness.

[homemade87]

Originally Posted by Tilt

Well, after my conversation with Martin at Tick, I'm going with his recommendation. I got most everything ordered this morning. I'm sure I'll find some small things I forgot, but I should have everything to get the truck back together. I still need to have the emc flashed and get a new harness.

I don't think you will go wrong with Martin. I am planning on sending my heads off to do a cnc port and getting martin to spec me a cam . I am curious to see what he specs for me .

That should be a blast to drive .

[Super73]

Let's throw duration and LSA out the window and look at things that actually matter, valve events!!

228R cam 228/228 .588/.588 112 (assuming a 112 ICL)
IVO – 2* BTDC
IVC – 46* ABDC
EVO – 46* BBDC
EVC – 2* ATDC
Overlap – 4*

Tick cam 231/235 .630/.600 111+2 cam
IVO – 4.5* BTDC
IVC – 46.5* ABDC
EVO – 56.5 * BBDC
EVC – 1.5* BTDC
Overlap – 3*


Assuming these are using the same cam lobe (comp XER – 49* from .006 to .050) and the lift is the same; they are going to have almost exactly the same dynamic compression based on where the intake valve closes at .006.
70.5* ABDC for the TSP
71* ABDC for the Tick

IVC at .050” also has a major role where peak power is made. Being they are both within 0.5* of each other, I care to bet they will make peak power at the same RPM.

Overlap is near identical, so they are going to idle almost exactly the same.

With that said, I like the Tick cam better for 3 reasons.
1) IVO is 2.5* earlier – Opening the intake valve sooner means it will be at higher lift as the piston is moving down the bore. This translates to more air to fill the cyl.
2) EVO opening is earlier with the Tick cam allowing a reduction to pumping losses and giving the exhaust more time exit the cyl.
3) The overlap is biased towards BTDC vs ATDC. This should have an impact on reversion at lower engine speed and may result in a more stable idle


Now, I did not go in to lift, but I lean towards the Tick cam again.