55.2-59 59: Electronic ignition upgrade?

[BlouDon]

My 59 has a distributor where the vacuum advance is bolted to the block and the entire dissy is rotated by it for vacuum advance.

I would like to upgrade to electronic ignition using standard chev parts.

Can I plug-and-play fit an electronic dissy from a 4.1 (250 - mounted towards front of engine) to my 59?

[mr48chev]

Somewhere on the net there is a how to on that.

Here is one tech tip on it Photobucket blurred the photos because he didn't pay the premium to be able to share them but his instructions are pretty clear. Primarily you need to remove the flange from the HEI that holds it down in the later engine so you can use the clamp from the 235 to hold it in place but use the advance on the Hei.

Pretty simple to do and even there parts should be available for the HEI https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/s.../fromsearch/1/

Guys this is where your Pertronix (sp) won't work because he has no ready sources for parts where he is so don't suggest it. He can source HEI parts in South Africa.

[GMdreamin]

Amazon sells a HEI that fits Early Chevrolet Straight 6 41-62 194 216 235 for $89.99 and the wire set is $36.99
I have one that I need to install on the 235 coming out of my 55 and going into my friends 52. My have to get it done this weekend.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[VWNate1]

Any system that eliminates the contact points will instantly improve starting, idling, power and fuel economy .

The linked HEI set up is nice and for $135 complete is a good deal however those who prefer simplicity and original looks can use the Pertronix "Ignitor" in the original distributor as long as the shaft isn't wobbly to very good effect .

The basic thing most fail to grasp is : any breakerless system instantly drives the coil to it's maximum output so you should open the spark plug gaps to at least .040" .

Then you'll get the most benefit and be sold for life on breakerless ignitions .

Be sure to read the instructions closely, each system is designed to run on a specific resistance coil, and supply voltage (coil 1.6 ~ 3 OHMS resistance, power supply 8VDC or 12VDC) ~ don't just buy one for your old rig as you never know until you test it first .

Some of my jalopies use the Chinese copy 'Ignitor' and never a failure yet .

If you have a 6 volt rig try this first, remembering that your old 6 volt GMC is positive ground so order the right one for your needs .

I have a 250CID Chevy that used to oil foul the spsrk plugs in 250 miles, I dropped in an old junkyard 1977 Chevy Nova HEI distributor and wires ($50) and experimented with the spark plug gaps, at .070" (!) it runs prefect and not a trace of smoke .

[dsraven]

don't forget the power supply to an HEI is a 10ga wire so it needs a new fused circuit from the ign switch and the ign switch needs a good sized supply wire ran up to it as well. the system is only as good as it's weakest link. you could also run a relay close to the HEI supplied by larger ga wire and switched on/off by using the original small ga ign wire. use a good quality water resistant relay and fuse the power supply somewhere close to it's origin.
you will love an HEI dizzy compared to the points set up. do the whole swap though, dizzy, wire set, plugs etc.that would be the time to consider a high output coil, good wire set etc

[VWNate1]

I'm using a relay operated by the original unfused key power .

Typically OEM's don't fuse ignitions .

[mr48chev]

Gents remember, he is is SOUTH AFRICA That means that Pertronix is not a viable choice. I have one on my 25 ft boat and make dang sure that my boat towing insurance is paid before taking it out.

he most likely has stock late 70's hei units available locally. an hours worth of work an he can put one in. Replacement parts for oem units aren't that hard to get there.

[dsraven]

if you have a whole load of money there is an adapter plate for the 235 to bolt an automatic up to it.
https://transmissionadapters.com/pro...hev-auto-trans

and install instructions

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...000301.pdf?262

not easy for South Africa to get a hold of I don't suppose. just info. possibly a local machine shop can also fab one up.

[BlouDon]

Originally Posted by dsraven

if you have a whole load of money there is an adapter plate for the 235 to bolt an automatic up to it.

At this stage it seems I am more likely to fit a rear axle with a lower ratio. This would allow me to keep the engine/transmission standard.

Doing so would have the added benefit of having front and rear brakes from the same Toyota vehicle.

[dsraven]

sounds like a plan. is the toyota track width close to what you need? park brake be an easy hook up? drum rear and disc front brakes? are you closing the door on the jag undercarriage swap or just weighing options?
grab the master cylinder, booster, even if it is too big diameter, prop valve and brake rubber hoses from the same vehicle as well. might have to custom fab a brake line or two to go from old chevy to newer toyota. thats pretty easy though. the rubber lines may not fit for your application but would have the proper connections for the calipers etc so you have the correct fittings in hand when you go for parts. if you can fab a new frame mount for the toyota hoses and adapt from chevy to toyota on the frame it would be simpler if you ever need a repair. when grabbing parts also grab the driveshaft so you have the correct end for the machine shop guy who adapts your driveshaft to go from chevy to toyota. if the length is close, like the original shaft ends up being too long, the shaft could be cut off at the welded on yoke for the original joint, then shortened accordingly to fit, and the end welded back on. then an adapter u joint could be used that fits the chevy shaft and the toyota pinion yoke. not sure of parts access where you are though so it could be better to simply rig the shaft with the correct u joint for the toyota axle. I also recommend starting a "parts log" where you write down part numbers and application for any non original '59 parts. just to make it easier if you need to buy another one some day.
different gear ratio would be an option for sure, instead of a whole driveline swap. keeps the truck more stock. I would keep the old stuff around for a bit until you figure out if you like the new system. there are online calculators that will help you figure out engine rpm at different speeds if you wanted to compare what the difference would be. different sized tires will also make a difference.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/multirpmcalc.html

https://www.crawlpedia.com/rpm_gear_calculator.htm

https://spicerparts.com/calculators/...rpm-calculator


https://tiresize.com/comparison/

[BlouDon]

Originally Posted by dsraven

is the toyota track width close to what you need? park brake be an easy hook up? drum rear and disc front brakes? are you closing the door on the jag undercarriage swap or just weighing options?

OK, Toyota axles are off the table. Ratios too high. Found a Ford Ranger truck with a 3.15 diff. I am leaning strongly in this direction. Attached pic shows what will happen with revs if I should mount it. This is with 30" tyres.

This diff will eliminate motivation to change engine and transmission as these RPMs will be quite acceptable. Rear axle has no influence on front axle decisions.

That still leaves the front axle decisions. Disc brakes is not negotiable but power steering, boosted brakes, leaf spring elimination is still up for decision.

I think I'll try out JUST doing the Toyota disc brake thing first. This should be relatively quick/cheap. If it works out well, along with the 3.15 rear axle, I might have found an acceptable compromise.

[Divine 59]

BlouDon,

I hope you enjoy your new truck. It is yours and you do with it as you wish. It is certainly a very nice example of an original truck. I am somewhat saddened to see all of the changes you are proposing. I realize I am in the minority here, because I really appreciate the original trucks and the majority of the members heavily modify them. Those that do so are okay too. The character of the truck will be completely transformed with all of the modernization.... It will become a like a modern "new" truck.
Best of luck on your project. I am not intending to flame with this post. I will sadly step away...... Good Luck.

[mr48chev]

I think we are getting his threads confused here but the toyota Tundra link I posted on the REAR AXLE thread showed that there are several ratios available in those trucks from 3.0 to 4.-----. A 3.3 to 3.5 is probably what you want though.
95/04 had drum brakes on the rear.

[BlouDon]

Originally Posted by Divine 59

BlouDon,

I hope you enjoy your new truck. It is yours and you do with it as you wish. It is certainly a very nice example of an original truck. I am somewhat saddened to see all of the changes you are proposing.

Don't worry. I respect that notion and I intend to do NOTHING that is not reversible EXCEPT fitting of seat belts.

All original parts that are removed will be stored in case I or the next owner wants to pursue 100% originality.

[burnin oil]

Be careful with that axle gearing. Although your cruise RPM is nice your first gear has some seriously long legs. I am not sure that you will be to happy with it if you have any hills from a stop or if you ever use the truck to haul anything. Don't forget this also has alot to do with driveability in parking lots. Your graph shows ideling in first gear at around 7mph. Not to mention your motor does not make a ton of torque to start with. You may be better served with a 5spd from a holden that has OD and keeping your rear gear.

[BlouDon]

Originally Posted by burnin oil

Be careful with that axle gearing. Although your cruise RPM is nice your first gear has some seriously long legs. I am not sure that you will be to happy with it if you have any hills from a stop or if you ever use the truck to haul anything. Don't forget this also has alot to do with driveability in parking lots. Your graph shows ideling in first gear at around 7mph. Not to mention your motor does not make a ton of torque to start with. You may be better served with a 5spd from a holden that has OD and keeping your rear gear.

Your points noted and valid. However, cruising is my main consideration. I will report truthfully on 1st gear experience. I've decided to commit to this conversion because I am not really keen to change engine/transmission combo's although a 350 / 700R4 combo would have been very nice. I have exactly that in my C10 so that itch is scratched.

This truck will never again haul / tow anything and parking lots will be the exception.

your motor does not make a ton of torque to start with

I don't understand this statement. I my view, torque is THE ONLY THING it does do!! ???

[burnin oil]

It probably produces around 200ftlbs which is not alot of torque compared to larger or newer engine design. Gearing, torque multiplication, is what made them so good at what they did in their day. Remember this was long before more torquey v8s with 2.73 and 3.07s.

[BlouDon]

Originally Posted by burnin oil

It probably produces around 200ftlbs

I have an original 1959 Chevrolet Owners Manual* that specifies the 235 as having 135 HP. Sadly they do not specify at which RPM this is.

Using this calculator (https://spicerparts.com/calculators/...que-calculator), if we assume the 135HP is generated at 3000rpm, then torque is aroun 235ftlbs. Your guess was close!

The 261 has 150HP.

* Is this manual worth anything?

[burnin oil]

A little googling on my part found a site called enginefacts.com. they list alot of 235 engines and said 204 or 207ftlbs for a 55. Sorry I would link it but my phone doesn't copy and paste well. Spicer is very good for information. Two pdf manuals that come to mind we should all bookmark are the driveline angle setup guide and the ujoint manual. They also have a really good one on driveline flanges and yokes. It makes it alot easier to find the parts and using the spicer number instead of manufacturer generally saves about 50%. Tge driveline covers ever setup from basic truck to dual transmissions with dual axles with multiple driveshaft.

Another unrelated site is eaton fuller. They have rebuild manuals for about any trans they built. Although most are semis they also have some tremecs.

[BlouDon]

So I decided that rather than fitting a complete HEI dissy etc, I would fit a Pertronix 91168LS.

Issues encountered:
1) the base plate in my dissy was bent downwards where the points are locked down. This resulted in the Ignitor module standing up at the far en and the electronic unit physically touching the the cam lobes. It seems some very heavy handed bloke applied great downwards force, fastening down the locking screw for the points, thus bending the plate.
2) The hole in the Ignitor base plate where the base of the points pivot shaft should go through was a fraction too small. Drilled it 8.5mm and then it fitted fine.
3) The standard coil measured 1.4Ohm and I wanted a lower resistance coil (Ignitor-II will accept as low as 0.45 Ohm), so I fitted one with 0.8 Ohm primary resistance. I could not use the original coil bracket as the newer coil was a fraction larger in diameter.
4) I almost forgot to bypass the ballast resistor.

I removed the plugs (they were pitch black from running too rich), media blasted them clean, and adjusted the idle mixture screw till I had it at the point where the engine was idling as lean as possible but still sounded happy.

Also found that no thermostat was fitted - which explained the temp gauge not rising much - and fitted a 74ºC thermostat. Tested it with my IR gun.

Engine still has a slight misfire which might be HT wires. They really do look 60 years old.

I also want to supply the vacuum advance with manifold vacuum - not ported vacuum from the carb. Thankfully there is a screw in end-stop in the manifold where a nipple for manifold vacuum can be installed.

[BlouDon]

Originally Posted by BlouDon

Engine still has a slight misfire which might be HT wires. They really do look 60 years old.

So it was the coil-centre post wire. It really did not look healthy. Others are also due for replacement.

[BlouDon]

Here is a pic with the Ignitor-II installed.

This is mainly a test to see if I can post Portrait pics.

[weq92f]

Flip fa ya...

[VWNate1]

Thanx .

FWIW, this is the system I use .

I've never had one burn out because I very careful to order the correct one and to test the coil before installing it as one never knows what the coil is on a vintage vehicle .

Never, EVER leave the key on without the engine running ! .

If you need to test things, disconnect the power wire, it's that simple .

NO down side to replacing the breaker points ignition ! .

[mick53]

IMHO just throw the whole thing away and go direct fire.