Ground wire burns out on start

[studeclunker]

DANGED computer! Okay, second try here (I need a new computer) we go again.

Okay, every time I attempt a startup, or engage the starter, the 12-gauge wire for body ground burns out. Like instantaneously. The main ground, to block, is fine. Never even heats up. However that may be because it isn't contacting properly.

Now here's the caveat and quid-pro-quo; I was having trouble getting my truck to start off the key and was jumpering it by using a tire iron to jumper across the solenoid terminals.
EDIT:
Eh heh, forgot to say I took the truck to a local pro who will work with me and likes my geriatric cars and trucks. I wanted it properly fixed.

What he did isn't much better as it basically does the same thing with a button on the dash. He cut my new starter harness and inserted a bypass that will engage the starter. I believe the real problem is the Neutral safety switch on the steering column. For that issue anyway.

All of this came to a head when I put a new self-regulated alternator on and replaced the old regulator. THAT mistake is being dealt with in another thread.

[ray_mcavoy]

Yes, it sounds like you're on the right track with suspecting that the main ground cable from the battery to the engine block is not making good contact. Or that cable might have internal corrosion issues (hidden under the insulation).

[dmjlambert]

The 4 gauge big wire goes between the battery negative terminal and the engine. The 12 gauge small wire that comes from that same battery terminal is optional, and my truck doesn't even have one. Some negative battery terminals have the built-in small wire, and some just have the 4 gauge wire and that is all.

Do you have this "repair" type of battery terminal where the wire is pinched by a plate?


Or the kind where the terminal is molded on? What is the condition and where does it connect? Is it making good metal to metal connection or is there paint or rust involved? How is the connection at the engine? Do you have ground straps from the engine to the truck body and/or frame?

If you can post pictures of what you have, that may be useful.

[Dead Parrot]

Ground cables are cheap to replace as most are fairly short. Replace with new and make sure the block/frame spot is rust and paint free. Cables can look good and be bad internally.

Mine is in the no small ground wire camp. Just has the heavy wire to the alt bracket and then a smaller flat ground cable from a valve cover bolt to the cab.

[studeclunker]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

Do you have this "repair" type of battery terminal where the wire is pinched by a plate?

Yes I do. However it also had the 12-gauge wire attached.

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

Or the kind where the terminal is molded on? no. What is the condition and where does it connect? to one of the valve bolts. Is it making good metal to metal connection or is there paint or rust involved? How is the connection at the engine? Do you have ground straps from the engine to the truck body and/or frame? Yes. In fact the wire that keeps burning out is one of the body connections. there are also several from the block (flat braided) to frame and body as well.

If you can post pictures of what you have, that may be useful.

Originally Posted by Dead Parrot

Ground cables are cheap to replace as most are fairly short. Replace with new and make sure the block/frame spot is rust and paint free. Cables can look good and be bad internally.

Mine is in the no small ground wire camp. Just has the heavy wire to the alt bracket and then a smaller flat ground cable from a valve cover bolt to the cab.

I don't know if taking advice from a dead bird is a good idea, but seems to be good so I will.

I have had problems with this (gauge 4) cable before. So, yeah. I think replacement is in order.

Oh I forgot, thank you both for the help!

[dmjlambert]

Those type of repair terminals that pinch the wire with a plate are really bad. I think that is the problem.

[toolboxchev]

Second that, there is lots of resistance in those. Especially after about 6 months the corrosion takes over.

[toolboxchev]

The NSS is kinda a safety thing in another way as I found out. My Brown Heater wire melted through the Purple Solenoid wire and the starter engaged while driving down the road. Had the NSS been in and functioning properly this would not have happened.

I would suggest to start going through the electrical sys by reading the schematics here on the site.

Who knows what other hookie thinga bob fix someone did 35 years ago?????

[studeclunker]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

Those type of repair terminals that pinch the wire with a plate are really bad. I think that is the problem.

LOL, Oh gosh, they're everywhere on the truck, put there by yours truly! Why are they so bad?

Originally Posted by toolboxchev

The NSS is kinda a safety thing in another way as I found out. My Brown Heater wire melted through the Purple Solenoid wire and the starter engaged while driving down the road. Had the NSS been in and functioning properly this would not have happened.

I would suggest to start going through the electrical sys by reading the schematics here on the site.

Who knows what other hookie thinga bob fix someone did 35 years ago?????

Oh, that's why I'm logged in here. I'm expert level at Hokey thing-a-ma-bob fix-its.

One of my plans (the evil plot, wah... hah, hah, hah, ha!) is to replace all of the various wiring harnesses on this truck with new. In the meantime I have to make what is there currently work till I have the money. A new NSS has moved way up on the must-get-when-funds-allow list.

Okay, thankfully the main ground had enough length I was able to take six inches out of it to reach nice clean shiny copper. It will be replaced as soon as I can make the forty mile trip to a FLAPS and get a new one. Along with a new body ground as well. I should look-see if they have replacements for the old flat braided wires too.

Oh, by the by, THANK YOU for the help!

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by studeclunker

LOL, Oh gosh, they're everywhere on the truck, put there by yours truly! Why are they so bad?

That's funny. Hopefully that type I gave a picture of are only in 2 places on your truck, neg and pos battery posts. I dislike them (insert various cuss words here) because they caused me pain, when I didn't know any better, and I misdiagnosed an engine-won't-turn-over issue. I replace the starter. The battery was new enough and tested good at the car parts store, and the battery cable and terminal looked OK to me. For some reason thinking a Chinese Skip White starter must be a good idea, and I put it on the truck. The starter didn't come with the correct bolts, I used washers as spacers due to the bolt lengths, and I couldn't figure out how to tune how much the starter gear engages the flex plate and how to figure out how to shim it so it sounded right. So I promptly chewed up my flex plate, and had to replace that. Anyway, the starter replacement didn't solve the no start condition. I finally figured out that pinching the big stranded cable with those 2 small bolts does not make an adequate connection. There is high resistance and corrosion builds up inside the connection quickly. So, now I'm very picky about the battery cables and only get the kind with lead terminals that are molded on. I put the original starter back on and it works great. I'm glad I didn't throw it away when the Skip White starter arrived.

I was looking for pictures that I took a while back. I found them. This is the terminal that caused me grief:


This is the terminal on the battery cable I found in the local parts store, and it was pretty good for a little while, and cracked. I took these back to the store and swapped for a new one several times, and finally asked for a refund after I almost wiped out their stock. I do not tighten them too much. Just light finger pressure on the wrench, and the terminal cracks. OMG what crap the parts stores have. I checked O'Reilly, AutoZone, Advance, NAPA, you know all the usual places and they all had the same brand and the cables looked identical. All from the same Chinese factory. This is the picture from when I first put it on and I thought the problem was solved. I didn't notice the cracking, and it got worse as the days went by.


Finally this is what I bought at the Chevrolet dealer. It works well, does not crack. I went in to the parts department at the dealership and explained my problem, and they called an older guy out of the back who had been working there since these trucks were something new. He knew how to search their part numbers and figure out the exact replacement GM part number for my truck. I am thinking I am good to go for the next 50 years.

[studeclunker]

Thank you again mister Lambert! I will check at the Lithia parts desk in Redding.

[toolboxchev]

This is the terminal on the battery cable I found in the local parts store, and it was pretty good for a little while, and cracked. I took these back to the store and swapped for a new one several times, and finally asked for a refund after I almost wiped out their stock. I do not tighten them too much. Just light finger pressure on the wrench, and the terminal cracks. OMG what crap the parts stores have. I checked O'Reilly, AutoZone, Advance, NAPA, you know all the usual places and they all had the same brand and the cables looked identical. All from the same Chinese factory. This is the picture from when I first put it on and I thought the problem was solved. I didn't notice the cracking, and it got worse as the days went by.

That is what you will find with many parts, Everyone is selling the same stuff, made by the same overseas manufacturer.

I go onward battling a heater blower motor that is the same no matter where I go.

I looking at new suppliers.

[dmjlambert]

I took the cable back into O'Reilly for about the 3rd or 4th time, and the guy couldn't believe he was seeing me again about the same part. He said "let me get you another one, and let's just make sure it's OK by putting on this battery" (pointing to a core return sitting on the counter). He took out a wrench and barely snugged it up on the core return battery, and it cracked. That's when he said let me just get you a refund. Some of this stuff that comes out of factories nowadays just needs to be taken straight to the dumpster out back, to save me some time and trouble.

[studeclunker]

Misssssssssster Lambert,
would you be so kind as to post that part number for the battery cable? Our Chevy dealer is staffed with children. I don't think anyone in the parts department even shaves every day.

[dmjlambert]

Hi, yes, positive battery cable:
ACDelco ACD# 4BC53X GM# 88860050

I'm afraid I didn't get a replacement negative battery cable from the dealer, I wish I had because some day I will need to replace it.