Need some help on a motor build

[johnmiller66]

I just acquired a 350 short block with a cast crank and forged flat top pistons. Fresh from a reputable machine shop. Its a 4 bolt main and has all been balanced and is completely assembled but has no cam. I also got a Chevrolet performance intake manifold that came with a fastburn 385 but never ran.
I am going to be in the market for a set of Vortec heads and was curious if there were certain casting numbers I need to look for. I am also considering a set of the Summit Vortecs as Ive heard good things about them and they seem pretty affordable.
I would like to be at or a little above 300 HP and was curious what cam would work well with what Im wanting to do and if that HP is going to be attainable with what I have. Im trying to do this on a budget like everyone else. Ive only got 450 bucks in the short block and intake so Im off to a good start. Thanks in advance for any replies.
JM

[Captainfab]

There are only 2 different castings for the factory Vortec heads, the 062 and 906's. I don't have any experience with the Summit Vortec heads, but I think they should be just fine. I am assuming this engine is going into a truck? If so I would recommend one of the Comp Cams' Extreme 4x4 cams. I wouldn't go any bigger than this one.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-12-239-3

[johnmiller66]

Thank you sir. Yes it's going in a truck.

[johnmiller66]

I just picked up a fresh set of 062 vortecs. Rebuilt to stock specs. I've been reading up on what the max lift is but there is a very wide range of opinions on the topic. Does anyone have any hands on experience with this? I'm still looking at cams and there are way to many choices and I still haven't chosen one yet but will need to be making a decision soon. I bought a new converter that is a step above stock and stall of 2k. Please throw out some cam suggestions that would make great low to midrange power for the setup I have. Thanks for any replies!

[cableguy0]

Lift limit in stock form is between .450-.480 lift. The castings aren't perfect and some heads will have more clearance than others. Generally Vortecs don't flow much past .480 lift anyhow so going with a big cam is pointless. The biggest I would bother going with vortecs is something along the lines of the comp xe268. If your focused on low to midrange the xe262 would be a good choice.

[johnmiller66]

Thank you.

[DBD]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

There are only 2 different castings for the factory Vortec heads, the 062 and 906's. I don't have any experience with the Summit Vortec heads, but I think they should be just fine. I am assuming this engine is going into a truck? If so I would recommend one of the Comp Cams' Extreme 4x4 cams. I wouldn't go any bigger than this one.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-12-239-3

^^^ this, 100%.

My only commetn is I have seen real problems with the summit brand stuff - poor machine work, etc. I've been told that it's just stuff made by other companies and rebranded, but I have specific evidence for some stuff that isn't true.

stick to less than .470 lift which will just about ALWAYS fit.

[GASoline71]

Will that GM performance parts intake work with Vortec heads? I don't think the fast burn aluminum heads are the same bolt pattern as Vortec. But I could be wrong.

Gary

[storm9c1]

Originally Posted by cableguy0

lift limit in stock form is between .450-.480 lift. The castings aren't perfect and some heads will have more clearance than others. Generally vortecs don't flow much past .480 lift anyhow so going with a big cam is pointless. The biggest i would bother going with vortecs is something along the lines of the comp xe268. If your focused on low to midrange the xe262 would be a good choice.

+1. Fully agree. I've seen guys push .500+ with screw-in studs on a roller setup, but now you are customizing... and as mentioned, the flow comes into question unless you start going into much more machine work. It adds up. Whereas you can get some kick-arse torque on stock Vortecs and the right cam (ones mentioned above or similar characterstics) without breaking the bank.

[johnmiller66]

GASoline71, I guess I had better do some research on that intake. I was under the impression that it would bolt up to vortecs. I hope anyway. Thank you guys for the replies.

[DBD]

Aftermarket pistons often have the p/n laser etched on them...anything on yours?

[johnmiller66]

Yep. They are etched but I forgot what they are. I will look when I get home. I know they are a .040 over flat top and they have a lightning bolt on them. I'm getting old and my memory is getting shorter.

[DBD]

the number will just make sure we're in the ballpark on CR. if you can measure the deck height too either with a depth micrometer or a precision straight-edge and a feeler guage that would be good to.

In a pinch, a metal ruler and feeler gauge is better than nothing

...and I gotta say, $450 for a balanced shortblock, especially with an aftermarket crank, is pretty darn cheap. Might be worth pulling a main cap while it's out just to have a look.

[johnmiller66]

The numbers on the pistons are L2256F. .040 05-236-01-A.
It doesn't have an aftermarket crank in it. I bought the short block from a guy I have known forever. He had the motor built in 2006 and it's been greased up and wrapped up in his garage since then. No rust anywhere and will rotate like it should. He heard I was looking for a motor and said he give me a smokin deal just to get it out of his way. The machine shop that rebuilt it is known for quality work so I'm sure it was done right.

[DBD]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRW-L2256F/ Forged

I hear you that it's a good shop with a good reputation...I'm just suggesting a few checks while it's on the stand that may save you heartache later. I'd still pull a main/rod cap, and it may be worth going through and re-torqueing everything and just verifying the assembly and clearances.

easy and free to do on the stand...really expensive to do later...

[johnmiller66]

Good advise. Will do.

[Captainfab]

The Fast Burn heads have both the old style 12 bolt intake bolt pattern and the Vortec 8 bolt intake bolt pattern. I believe the intake that came on the Fast Burn 385 should be the 8 bolt Vortec bolt pattern.

[johnmiller66]

captainfab, do you have recomendations on a gasket set. Getting ready to place a Jegs order and was wondering what gaskets would be best. I don't think I need anything Vortec specific other than valve covers. Is that correct?

[Captainfab]

Yes you will need a Vortec specific intake gasket, and not just any gasket. The Vortec intakes are prone to leaking. This is the one you want to use, even though it comes with pieces you don't need. This is the best latest updated Vortec intake gasket.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Fel-Pro/375/MS...oductId=746656

The valve cover gaskets are not Vortec specific, they are just '88-'02 Center bolt valve cover gaskets

[DBD]

you'll want to do the compression ratio math on the pistons/deck height before picking a head gasket. sometimes using a thin gasket like the felpro 1094 can get you to the right quench and into a better (9 - 9.5:1) CR.

[dfrank]

I would recommend you stay away from a flat tappet comp cams cam. They have been having problems with cam lobes wearing out since they changed they hardening process and are so aggressive. Their roller cams are great and what i am going to be swapping and my neighbors engine shop uses them all the time with no problems.

If you want a flat tappet I would highly recommend this speedpro cam. http://www.northernautoparts.com/part/cs-cs1106r We have had great results with these cams. We use scorpion racing carbide tip flat tappet lifters on these and haven't had any cams go flat. i have one in my motor now and has excellent low-midrange power.

[johnmiller66]

The more I read about cams the more confused I get. I am kind of leary of the comp xe cams after all I have read. That speed pro looks interesting. What about the voodoo cams? Any experience with those?

[dfrank]

Originally Posted by johnmiller66

The more I read about cams the more confused I get. I am kind of leary of the comp xe cams after all I have read. That speed pro looks interesting. What about the voodoo cams? Any experience with those?

I don't have any experience with them. We have used comp roller cams, speedpro flat tappet, crane, and some custom grinds a guy used to do before he went out of buisness.

I think you will really like that speedpro cam I listed. It has a fairly nice lumpy idle, but pulls 15hg of vaccum which is very good and it has a great low-mid power range. The only reason I am swapping mine out is cause it doesnt have on the top end since the power range ends at around 4500rpm and I have the transmission (th350) set to shift at 5000rpm and sometimes take it to 6000rpm at the max. I have mine matched with a set of world products sportsman 2 iron heads and it is a great combo and would recommend those heads with that cam. The worlds heads are also not very expensive. Vortec heads would be fine as long as you have a vortec intake.

I think that that speedpro cam and world products sportsman 2 heads with edelbrock performer rpm or rpm air gap intake along with a 650 holley or quick fuel carb would probably put your motor to around 350hp and maybe 400tq. I wouldn't push it any higher than 350hp/400tq with that cast crank. I had an eagle cast crank break at 4000 miles with my motor pushing 450hp/470tq although it was rated to 500hp. They de-rated that crank to 400hp shortly after as there where a lot of people having that same crank break in the same spot mine did. I now have a internaly balance scat 4150 forged crank in it.

One other thing. Make sure you run an oil with high contents of zddp (zinc) in it if you go with a flat tappet cam or you will wipe the cam out shorty after. I run brad penn 10w-40 in my motor now.

[DBD]

The XE comp cams have a near-roller profile which means they have zero tolerance for bad break-in, especially with stiff springs. I've installed many, many of them with no problems at all...I have never lost a flat-tappet cam - and they will make more power than an "old skool" cam every time, especially on vortec heads with their high mid-lift flow.

theres hundreds of thousands of these cams in use with no issues despite the stuff you read on the internet where some failures back in the early 2000's get replayed over and over. there was never any proof of hardening issues...just that the XEs were the first to have probs when zddp levels dropped because they had the most aggressive profile.

you want a "4x4" or "RV" type cam with advance to move the power curve from idle to around 4500-5000 rpm...how often will you see more than that?

[johnmiller66]

I've heard rotella is a good oil for flat tappet cams also.